Genuinely afraid to pick one main to dedicate to.

[Valisha.8650]

Perhaps I am being paranoid, but with all this mess around balance, Warrior's banners getting nerfed into oblivion for virtually no reason at all, and a lot of other balance decisions that even Teapot called unreasonable, I am honestly afraid to dedicate my time and effort to any class which is not guardian/mechanist (clearly OP) or condi necro (left in balance limbo).

Why would I put my time and, more importantly, money into gems for extra bag slots and cosmetics, only for my Specter to be turned into another Spellbreaker or pre-buff Untamed by some axe-only firebrand enjoyer dev?

GW2 has to be the first game in my history where I have such levels of uncertainty about a possibility of build, character, or something among those lines getting nerfed either for no valid reason, OR for a right purpose, but with absolutely awful execution, making it a total KEKW to play.

Seriously anet. Just like IRL people are unlikely to invest in countries with uncertain political stability, in the virtual world people are afraid to buy stuff in games with such questionable balance decisions being made about their characters.

Or maybe it's just me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Infinity.2876]

It all depends on how much you tolerate dying.

Or rather how desperate you are to play your favorite role-playing character type

Edited July 17, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[Kozumi.5816]

Guardian is safe to main. Eng seems to be that way now too. Necro is pretty safe. Rest are unsafe. Ele is guaranteed to be gutted always, anytime it's played.

This is the only MMO I've played where people are legit scared of their spec being nerfed to the ground and afraid of balance patches. Great job Anet keep up the fantastic work.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Valisha.8650]

19 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

This is the only MMO I've played where people are legit scared of their spec being nerfed to the ground and afraid of balance patches. Great job Anet keep up the fantastic work.

This, basically.

[Fueki.4753]

You don't have to main anything. You have enough character slots to alternate between multiple characters.

But GW2 is not the only game that tends to ruin play styles. WoW: Legion literally removed all the play styles I enjoyed. I haven't had a main in WoW since then, just like I haven't had a main in GW2 since the Berserker dework.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[ThunderX.6591]

Wait a minute here, guardian isn't safe at all, the only build that is decent atm (i repeat, DECENT) to play are the quickness support one, as healer quickness i mean, cause the DPS guard build are totally bad and had taken a big hit to nerfed damage from 28/06 patch, like they all (from power to condi) are on the lower rank of the dps now (not worth play in any end game contents that can fail cause they do too low dps, like around 32k-33k max dps if other tests didn't come out in the last week).

Devs sayd Mecha will get a new round of nerf in august cause random people not checking the dps ranking asked (cause as they are just now, after the 01/07 nerf, on the middle/low section of the dps rank is too high for some people, right?), so, safe class i don't know, maybee necro can be a bit safe, but someone is starting to point out the quickness build so........ we can only wait and see how things evolve.

ATM Virtuoso is decent, the condi variant get some nerf with 28/06 patch, so for the time, i think is a safe build to use, but like the other, i really don't know for how much time will be ok..........

Suggestion; prepare all kind of classes, get all to 80, do hot story fast so you can get hp run easy for them, and activare the elite you like or find more usefull to play, then, continue with the class you want to use from that moment (and that isn't too much nerfed for you), and go on, and when something change, change it and start the next second best class who is atm ok to play on.

And in any case, some changes will come with the 19/07 patch too, so.... wait and see, wait and see.....

[Valisha.8650]

2 minutes ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

Suggestion; prepare all kind of classes, get all to 80, do hot story fast so you can get hp run easy for them, and activare the elite you like or find more usefull to play, then, continue with the class you want to use from that moment (and that isn't too much nerfed for you), and go on, and when something change, change it and start the next second best class who is atm ok to play on.

Honestly, at that point I would rather play a MOBA game. Much less effort to get a new character if old one gets nerfed.

Plus I don't enjoy all classes.

[ThunderX.6591]

When i started, (after hot expansion come) my main class (ranger, oh the irony) wasn't the "good one to play", but i find out only after a lot of hours of play on it (who checked the forums at that time.....) and so, i started to create new ones (warrior and revenant, yeah, perfectly good choice in retrospective, no?) and continued on, so, i think you can do the same, create yours favorite classes (plus a necro, cause when i get to necro and minions, play though the entire game was so much easier than before, even more easy than the time with a power rotation hammer revenant) and go on adventuring in the world; don't think about the rest, cause in any case, you need some weeks or months to prepare for end game contents in any case. (unless you have full equipment ready because isn't your first char to play).

[Valisha.8650]

7 minutes ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

When i started, (after hot expansion come) my main class (ranger, oh the irony) wasn't the "good one to play", but i find out only after a lot of hours of play on it (who checked the forums at that time.....) and so, i started to create new ones (warrior and revenant, yeah, perfectly good choice in retrospective, no?) and continued on, so, i think you can do the same, create yours favorite classes (plus a necro, cause when i get to necro and minions, play though the entire game was so much easier than before, even more easy than the time with a power rotation hammer revenant) and go on adventuring in the world; don't think about the rest, cause in any case, you need some weeks or months to prepare for end game contents in any case. (unless you have full equipment ready because isn't your first char to play).

Honestly I am not sure what you were trying to say with this. If I am to ignore pathetic balance decisions + absolute uncertainty, and just "go on adventuring", might as well play Witcher 3 instead.

[ThunderX.6591]

Was try to tell you to play the game, and don't bother with balance and change, cause if you start thinking about it, yeah, you most likely stop play the game.....

 

[ThunderX.6591]

For a prospective, after those classes, i started guardian (FB condi dps when pof come) that get nerfed badly with 28/06 patch, mechanic when EOD come cause i like robot (don't use Rocket AA trait, even though i use the explosion trait, so what they did to it in 28/06 patch and with 01/07 hot fix for me is a straight nerf to what i play on dps output and utility use) and ended up to play ranger (soulbeast) again....... i can say that was a nice full circle in the end.

 

[Guybrush.4762]

From an end game point of view, "having a main" usually means you are focusing your effort on a singular profession that you enjoy in order to participate in harder content and still feel like you are contributing. From that point of view there is two things that needed to be said :
-First, do not choose a main class that you don't like even if it performs well in the current meta ; you are going to play it a lot so it is important that you enjoy your time.
-Second, and I feel it is more controversial. Among the classes you like, prefer the one that offer some role versatility and that are desirable in the current meta. Choosing a spec that is currently on the weak side of the balance may generate a frustrating experience.

So yeah, right now : Engineer and more precisely Mechanist is meta for almost everything. To a lesser extent you have Guardian and the newly buffed Ranger who offer strong options to fill both healer, boon-support dps and pure Dps roles. Other classes are typically only commonly plaid as two or even one of these roles. Then I would say Necromancer, Mesmer and Thief stand currently stronger than Elementalist, Revenant and the poor Warrior but take this opinion with a huge grain of salt.

If you fear future patches I would say Mechanist is likely to get nerfed (but then again it is likely to get nerfed since 2 patches ago), Guardian will probably stay as it is now or receive small nerfs. Untamed may be nerfed depending on where the balance team want to put the damage output for boon-provider dps. Other spec will probably either receive buffs or stay as they are right now and therefor are safe to delve into. Warrior will almost certainly receive buffs as a quickness provider (finger crossed).

Edited July 17, 2022 by Guybrush.4762

[Rokeb.3815]

I understand where you are coming from.  After the last big 'balance patch' I think more people have become concerned about Anet's version of  'balance' and what it may do to their favorite class.  I too am unwilling to 'invest' in any of my characters - I'm not going to start crafting new expensive gear or buying sets of Tormenting runes for example.  

What this is a good time to do is to stock up on the stuff that you might want to gear or respec a character - things like currencies for stat selectable armor (bladed armor), time gated materials for ascended weapons and armor, and the usual runes for winterberries and bloodstone shards.  

 

If it turns out my main characters are still fine after the next patch - then great.  Maybe a new option will open up and I'll want to tweak something anyway - like say Ritualist trinkets being easier to get.

 

I think after the player feedback Anet won't botch things up the same way - but it doesn't hurt to be patient and wait a bit.

 

 

[CraftyK.9062]

I have been playing for a bit more than 9-10 months now and I found Power Dragonhunter at the time really fun. Got to do the rotation alright (85-90% benchmark) and started learning other specs. Power DH and Power WB were absolutely my favourites but right now Power Guardian just seems kinda dead. I really don't like playing Firebrand so my only real choice up till now was Condi WB, but now that it is pretty much same DPS as Firebrand, it just seems like wasted time to play anything but FB.

 

I usually pick one class and then dedicate majority of my time and experiences in an MMO to, and I am kind of frustrated with the changes as I don't really like FB. I am scared to pick a different main and then have it gutted so I am taking a break. So I kind of see where you are coming from.

[JTGuevara.9018]

4 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Perhaps I am being paranoid, but with all this mess around balance, Warrior's banners getting nerfed into oblivion for virtually no reason at all, and a lot of other balance decisions that even Teapot called unreasonable, I am honestly afraid to dedicate my time and effort to any class which is not guardian/mechanist (clearly OP) or condi necro (left in balance limbo).

Why would I put my time and, more importantly, money into gems for extra bag slots and cosmetics, only for my Specter to be turned into another Spellbreaker or pre-buff Untamed by some axe-only firebrand enjoyer dev?

GW2 has to be the first game in my history where I have such levels of uncertainty about a possibility of build, character, or something among those lines getting nerfed either for no valid reason, OR for a right purpose, but with absolutely awful execution, making it a total KEKW to play.

Seriously anet. Just like IRL people are unlikely to invest in countries with uncertain political stability, in the virtual world people are afraid to buy stuff in games with such questionable balance decisions being made about their characters.

Or maybe it's just me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You have good reason to worry. Modern gameplay and "BaLanCe" decisions are nothing short of comedy gold. I would say don't worry so much and just pick a class you enjoy. Do be aware of the developers' favorites though (necro, guard, engi).

[Bunny.9834]

Pick one of the holy trinity: Guardian, Necromancer, and Engineer. 

They get the best treatments from the devs. 

Avoid Thief, Warrior, or Elementalist. These are the forgotten orphaned step-children. 

[Valisha.8650]

1 hour ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

Pick one of the holy trinity: Guardian, Necromancer, and Engineer. 

They get the best treatments from the devs. 

Avoid Thief, Warrior, or Elementalist. These are the forgotten orphaned step-children. 

Thief at least got a decent support spec. Warrior and Ele though are a joke. The devs seem to have no idea how to work with them.

[oscuro.9720]

Just play warrior. Warrior is best class. Warrior is only class where you smash enemies with fist like savage. Warrior is only class where people complain about it being OP even when it’s bottom of the barrel. Warrior is class to put hair on balls, blood on chest, teeth in meat, and heads on floor. 
 

Unlike the other classes, warrior is a class unbridled by the crutches of modern gaming. No Magic to carry them, no pets to drag their skillets corpse through the game. All warrior has is fists to smash in enemies skulls. This is why Anet doesn’t like warrior. Warrior is dangerous. The other professions use their silly morals, foolish Magics, and useless ghosts to try to emulate the raw savagery and uninhibited violence wrought upon this world by the warrior community.
 

You must ask yourself; do you wish to feel the thrill of conquest and slaughter? Do you wish to bathe in the blood of your enemies after they have been slaughtered en mass’s for daring to stand against you? Do you seek the exhilaration of standing upon the hill, looking down upon the shining field of soldiers who have been amassed to subjugate you, flying their foolish banners laden with a 2 shaped dragon? Do you get hard watching those soldiers cower in fear and break formation as they retreat from the terror inflicted upon them as you crouch into your thicc legs, and leap from high up on your perch and into the middle of this now-fleeing army that failed to have the resolve to kill you. There is no retreat. There is no surrender. There is only the satisfying crunch of sword cutting through metal, flesh, and bone as you slaughter every last one of those who dared to challenge you. No matter how fast they run, no matter how far they go, your sword finds them, smearing their blood upon the floor of the now-red valley. And when all is done, none are left standing. Their banners fallen in the mud thats arisen from the moisture of blood and the pounding of a thousand boots. And there, alone, kneeling in the middle of the field, you look up, past the circling carrion, and high into the endless abyss of the blue sky, overcome with depression from the battle having lasted for such little time. 
 

So yes. Be warrior. Is best class.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

4 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Thief at least got a decent support spec. Warrior and Ele though are a joke. The devs seem to have no idea how to work with them.

It also seems like they don't even want to figure out how to use them either so they haphazardly just throw random changes at them while purposefully making the changes a couple steps below their "privileged" classes so the ones they play face no competition in the meta. Real slick work there.

But in regards to OP's post, it really doesn't even matter to me anymore. Like I main ele and rev so my only practical competitive build is alacrigade. I'm just bored of these small incremental changes that do nothing to change the status quo of classes, and then these weird conservative ways of giving everyone alac and quickness, but not in a way that's competitive, and then removing all unique buffs from classes while slyly keeping guardians unique mechanic, aegis, because it can slip by because it's a boon, even though no other class can provide it like it does. 

This has become Warhammer40k and the blue guys will always be the favorite and it's annoying when trying to play anything else. 

So pick what looks cool to you lol

[Kuma.1503]

The only 100% safe class to main is Guardian. This is the one class that, throughout history, Anet refuses to touch in any meaningful way. 

The second most safe is Necromancer, but I have to put a big asterisk on this. Scourge and Reaper have both recieved some hefty nerfs in recent patches. Harbinger, meanwhile still seems to be going strong in every game mode with no immediate plans to do anything to it. 

Revenant is also a safe bet. This class has mostly seen improvements (Ventari and shortbow buffs <3) with a few Soulcleave shaped slip ups in recent history. Alacrigade gets outclassed by HAM currently, but it's still a very good build that hasn't really gotten much worse over time. 

Up until EoD, the holy trinity has been Necro, Revenant, Guardian. 

Engineer might seem tempting, but... If you're worried about your main getting nerfed, I'd hold off. Mechanist has been consistently nerfed patch after patch, and there are plans to nerf it further. It has been hotfix nerfed multiple times, and it was axed from PvP very quickly after EoD released, with nerfs to shield, Crisis Zone, alac uptime, mech tankiness, the removal of the defiance bar, signet nerfs, ect. 

You might think core is safe, but Engineer also has a history of having their core spec nerfed because of their Elites, which will cause collateral damage to all of their other builds. Most recent example was the shield nerf in PvP. 

There's also the massive pressure from the community to delete mech. I would hold off on being an Engi main for a few months at minimum until the outrage dies down. 

The most unsafe class to main is Elementalist. 

While I consider myself an Engineer main currently, Ele is my most played class to this day. I can confirm that this class gets nerfed immediately whenever it achieves anything resembling relevance. There seems to be active malice from the developers towards this class. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Labjax.2465]

After the sustain nerfs, I've long had fears my main for open world (one of the loosest areas in the game) will get nerfed at some point. As it is, I'm pretty sure the build (tempest celestial ele) did lose some sustain at the time and I was just too new to the spec to notice.

In general, the balance they do for this game makes little sense other than as whims, which is what it more seems to be.

It's been interesting to play around with tempest alacrity, but then I have to lose some healing to choose that and from what I remember reading, they basically did it with fresh air tempest in mind and that's it...

I guess what I'm meandering around here is it's like Whose Line Is It Anyway. "Everything is made up and the points don't matter." So it seems the only way to enjoy it is to either choose the top meta builds no matter what for maximum everything... or just pick something you like, be somewhat suboptimal, and don't worry about what the tippy top people in the game are doing. It seems little is tuned all that tightly in this game, so you can mostly get away with doing the 2nd one.

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

After the sustain nerfs, I've long had fears my main for open world (one of the loosest areas in the game) will get nerfed at some point. As it is, I'm pretty sure the build (tempest celestial ele) did lose some sustain at the time and I was just too new to the spec to notice.

In general, the balance they do for this game makes little sense other than as whims, which is what it more seems to be.

It's been interesting to play around with tempest alacrity, but then I have to lose some healing to choose that and from what I remember reading, they basically did it with fresh air tempest in mind and that's it...

I guess what I'm meandering around here is it's like Whose Line Is It Anyway. "Everything is made up and the points don't matter." So it seems the only way to enjoy it is to either choose the top meta builds no matter what for maximum everything... or just pick something you like, be somewhat suboptimal, and don't worry about what the tippy top people in the game are doing. It seems little is tuned all that tightly in this game, so you can mostly get away with doing the 2nd one.

If you ever need a good open world build to play for... any class honestly (except warrior I bought the character slot for one only recently), HMU. I love theorycrafting and testing new builds, seeing if they can solo bounties, dungeons, the devil frog in Heart of Thorns... 

The sustain were harsh for some like thief, scrapper, and torment rune users, but left many other insane open world builds untouched. If that build gets nerfed I'll give you a new one 🙂

Edited July 18, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Carnifex.3275]

100% relatable. Over the span of 9 years all of my hiatus periods were because of balance patches. And i mostly was a 1 main class type of player. I usually pick the class that's the most enjoyable and stick to it (thief for 6 years). But that caused so much frustration and i had to quit the game many times, well not quit but take a break. 

I realised that i just have to change my mentality.. (which is terrible, no game should be so unstable that someone has to change their playstyle). But whatever, i did it. Now i gotta say there's a reason why we have legendary armor. Basically your goal is to get all 3 legendary armors buy extra char slots and create every class. That's how terrible anets balance is.. if you wanna keep playing and stay "relevant" you have to adjust or you'll be very very frustrated. But this kind of mentality also has alot of flaws. A simple one is that you don't really enjoy your new class but you still keep playing it. Which is also frustrating for people like me who like to stick to 1 favorite main, you still feel forced to play somethin else. But atleast in that way it's abit less frustrating. So basically.. yeah, there's no way around it, if you're "1 main" type of player, you'll be frustrated nonetheless. But with many classes and gear it'll be somewhat easier..

And nothing is safe really. Even Guardian was gutted after this patch (dps specs). Mechanist will also most likely will get nerfed to 30-33k dps range. If you only want to be a support player then Guardian/Mech will most likely stay relevant, but as DPS specs there's no guarantees. So idk what class is safe tbh. Might aswell just close your eyes and pick any class..

Edited July 18, 2022 by Dave.6819

[Asum.4960]

8 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

The only 100% safe class to main is Guardian. This is the one class that, throughout history, Anet refuses to touch in any meaningful way. 

The second most safe is Necromancer, but I have to put a big asterisk on this. Scourge and Reaper have both recieved some hefty nerfs in recent patches. Harbinger, meanwhile still seems to be going strong in every game mode with no immediate plans to do anything to it. 

That's misleading too though. Let's say someone heard Guardian is 100% safe to invest into and put everything they had a while back into gearing a power DH (the poster child for stable DPS pick at the time) - sure, there are still other Guard alternatives, but their investment of Power DPS gear for it is more dead in the water as most of the rest. 

Necro (condi only) accidentally has been on a run since the Torment changes in May 2021 - but let's not forget it was so universally bad and unwanted in PvE that it wasn't uncommon for players to get kicked for joining groups as Necro from 2012 to 2021. 

Not exactly a good track record either.

 

Any one experimental change by a dev not aware of the consequences, be it flipping Torment back or changing one or two damage modifiers in Traits, and these specs are dead too, and then likely will be left to rot for the next who knows how many years while something else becomes hailed as untouchables again - just as Warrior, Ele, Mesmer and Ranger were the favourite children for years. 

 

So no, I don't think anything is safe. And while it's fine to rotate what's best to an extend (and kind of the nature of balancing, which is never perfect), what Anet needs to do is break the cycle of just gutting things and leaving them for years. 

It's like they can only make two types of changes - either such nonsensical and small adjustments back and forth that they do nothing at all, or a sweeping buff of one thing while simultaneously doing a sweeping nerf on another, leading to the same unhealthy and frustrating massive performance gaps, just mixed up in who's on top.

 

/E:

For example, I can very easily see Anet dismantling Guard's somewhat unique utility in Stab and such over the next few patches, in line with their current direction, not buff it's damage back up or even nerf it further to placate general anti-guard sentiments, and Guardian becoming the next to rot wholly dead Profession for the next few years.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Asum.4960

[CraftyK.9062]

3 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

That's misleading too though. Let's say someone heard Guardian is 100% safe to invest into and put everything they had a while back into gearing a power DH (the poster child for stable DPS pick at the time) - sure, there are still other Guard alternatives, but their investment of Power DPS gear for it is more dead in the water as most of the rest. 

Necro (condi only) accidentally has been on a run since the Torment changes in May 2021 - but let's not forget it was so universally bad and unwanted in PvE that it wasn't uncommon for players to get kicked for joining groups as Necro from 2012 to 2021. 

Not exactly a good track record either.

 

Any one experimental change by a dev not aware of the consequences, be it flipping Torment back or changing one or two damage modifiers in Traits, and these specs are dead too, and then likely will be left to rot for the next who knows how many years while something else becomes hailed as untouchables again - just as Warrior, Ele, Mesmer and Ranger were the favourite children for years. 

 

So no, I don't think anything is safe. And while it's fine to rotate what's best to an extend (and kind of the nature of balancing, which is never perfect), what Anet needs to do is break the cycle of just gutting things and leaving them for years. 

It's like they can only make two types of changes - either such nonsensical and small adjustments back and forth that they do nothing at all, or a sweeping buff of one thing while simultaneously doing a sweeping nerf on another, leading to the same unhealthy and frustrating massive performance gaps, just mixed up in who's on top.

This, and some of the recent changes for Guardian-specifically don't really make sense. Why are they nerfing a profession-wide damage trait (Amplified Wrath) when the class has one big outlier (Firebrand) that is cutting it over the top, and not even due to the damage alone?

 

After the recent changes Power Guardian builds are not even listed on snowcrows and Condi Willbender tanked like 4k dps, which puts it in-line/behind Condi Firebrand. If not for Alacrity then what is a real reason to sacriface Firebrand utility for Willbender?

And sure, raid meta is one thing and the rest of the game is the other. Though, I think that it is an issue if the builds are nerfed so hard that they are not even mentioned anymore on a raid-primarily build website. Especially when Power builds are(/were) harder to get value out of, whether it is through gearing (Power-Precision-Ferocity vs Condition DMG/Expertise), coordination (Unique Boons + set-up) and the rotation being more punishing in general (Condis can still tick if you're not doing anything, power on the other hand not so easily)

 

I don't need to use the meta specs only, but stuff like Power DH/WB right now really feels too underperforming to be as fun, compared to just going Firebrand. I am going to wait until maybe something changes about the balance but right now I just don't want to play because I don't like playing Firebrand, and I most likely will be required to if I want to do Raids/Fractals/etc somewhat smoothly.