So is it the end of ele?

[Asek.1869]

As in topic, I want to know if currently ele is dead in pve content. I love playing ele he is my main, be it weaver or cata, but after last patch and current new mecha meta I fell unwanted in this game, no matter where I  look i see no ele, tried to join some strikes but was kicked out for playing weaver, and even when I join I'm mostly a mascot when rest of team is full of mecha. So I want to know is there any future for ele or is it time to make a big break and hope for better? If somone fell simmilar or disagree with me pls write, I want to know your thoughts (sry for my english)

[Sahne.6950]

3 minutes ago, Asek.1869 said:

As in topic, I want to know if currently ele is dead in pve content. I love playing ele he is my main, be it weaver or cata, but after last patch and current new mecha meta I fell unwanted in this game, no matter where I  look i see no ele, tried to join some strikes but was kicked out for playing weaver, and even when I join I'm mostly a mascot when rest of team is full of mecha. So I want to know is there any future for ele or is it time to make a big break and hope for better? If somone fell simmilar or disagree with me pls write, I want to know your thoughts (sry for my english)

First of all: your english is good! dont worry.

I dont pve alot... but i believe no one wants weaver in complexer instances, because, while they have the potential to reach high dps numbers, they have a insanely complicated rotation.... when mechanics come into play.. or the boss will stun/whatever. you are not even coming close to these damagenumbers.

 

Like i said.. i dont Pve... but ive heard that Alac tempest is pretty competetive in terms of dpsoutput for a alac build. Altho i am not sure at all about this 😄 just heard some people speaking about it^^

Edited July 25, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Asek.1869]

Personally i'm playing more dps oriented builds, dont like playing support or heal, to me dps i more fun 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Try to find a different group. I'm not saying Ele is without issues, but if players kick you for it then the problem is not because of you, not because of the Elementalist but because of players.

Don't feel bad about yourself because other players are rude or toxic.

Edited July 25, 2022 by TheQuickFox.3826

[AliamRationem.5172]

It's not that bad.  It just isn't where it should be considering how much easier and more useful and versatile most other classes are.   It doesn't feel great being a selfish melee DPS with a slew of disadvantages and not even great DPS to show for it.  It can be competitive and it's fun to play.   That's about the best you can say about it.

[soulknight.9620]

Have no issues of finding groups for t4/raids/strikes. I mainly play condi weaver/quick catalyst. Although i do swap to other classes such as hfb/ham/alacrev when group requires something besides pure dps. 

Alac tempest is bad atm, i have been seeing a lot of them in t4 fracs lately, but 8 out of 10 alac tempest cant keep alac uptime on decent lvl (im talking below 60%). Ive tried it myself, its possible to be "viable", but there are other classes that can do more and more reliably. 

Power catalyst is meh atm, condi weaver provides more dps (and an easier rotation) and is a lot more durable (and a bit of bonus sustain to the group, that bonus barrier on the whole party actually adds up a bit). 

Edited July 25, 2022 by soulknight.9620

[Asek.1869]

What build are you using when playing condi weaver?

 

[zeyeti.8347]

You cannot deny there is a problem with the whole ele class , it's the less played class (in all of his 3 elites spec) for all endgame content (fractals , raids and strikes) . While it seems decent in pvp and wvw , it's absolute garbage in pve.

The numbers are alarming , tempest represent 1.48% of players in raid content , weaver 2.00% and shitalyst 0.30% .

But somehow anet find it méta defining ... holy hell , 33% of the players play firebrand in fractals but thats not defining the méta ...

They can delete the class atm , you can say whatever you want but in any secific roles , as healer , quickness dps provider or simply dps , there is a class who completely deny the ele , more hp , more easier to play , more efficient , more boons ,... etc etc

I personnaly , and i despite doing that , ask players to play something else than ele when i recruit as com for raids or strikes (i dont even ask in fractals , they are none , lol) so numbers of players playing ele in engame will reach ground zero and anet will be forced to do something about that class.

 

But dont worry if you want to play dps you can play the new exciting "Pew Pew" mechanist , afk on gorseval , reached 28k/s, ez mode . In few years the game will play by itself ...

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

You cannot deny there is a problem with the whole ele class , it's the less played class (in all of his 3 elites spec) for all endgame content (fractals , raids and strikes) . While it seems decent in pvp and wvw , it's absolute garbage in pve.

The numbers are alarming , tempest represent 1.48% of players in raid content , weaver 2.00% and shitalyst 0.30% .

But somehow anet find it méta defining ... holy hell , 33% of the players play firebrand in fractals but thats not defining the méta ...

They can delete the class atm , you can say whatever you want but in any secific roles , as healer , quickness dps provider or simply dps , there is a class who completely deny the ele , more hp , more easier to play , more efficient , more boons ,... etc etc

I personnaly , and i despite doing that , ask players to play something else than ele when i recruit as com for raids or strikes (i dont even ask in fractals , they are none , lol) so numbers of players playing ele in engame will reach ground zero and anet will be forced to do something about that class.

 

But dont worry if you want to play dps you can play the new exciting "Pew Pew" mechanist , afk on gorseval , reached 28k/s, ez mode . In few years the game will play by itself ...

I've been doing my t4 dailies pretty much every day and there are almost zero weavers or catalysts.  Tempest I see a few of, testing out the alac spec.  Meanwhile almost every group has at least one mechanist and firebrand.

I don't have any trouble contributing, but I can't help but think how nice it must be to play one of the favored classes.  

[zeyeti.8347]

3 hours ago, Asek.1869 said:

As in topic, I want to know if currently ele is dead in pve content. I love playing ele he is my main, be it weaver or cata, but after last patch and current new mecha meta I fell unwanted in this game, no matter where I  look i see no ele, tried to join some strikes but was kicked out for playing weaver, and even when I join I'm mostly a mascot when rest of team is full of mecha. So I want to know is there any future for ele or is it time to make a big break and hope for better? If somone fell simmilar or disagree with me pls write, I want to know your thoughts (sry for my english)

Sorry , my last message was a little bit of "puke" . But i feel sorry for you  , atm you are right , but hope for the best anet cannot let the ele in his state .

For me , weaver had to be the most glass canon class ever , adding the thing who give barrier to the other feel out of place , people who play weaver in pve are focused on very very high damage . And when you see what you have to do to pull out those damage , i am pretty sure you heard "playing weaver is like playing piano" and thats right .

For tempest it's on a good way , anet need to fix little things , like the alac , the trait just give alac , while other have bonuses :

-scrapper : quickness and 10% might converted to concentration 

-Herald : quickness and passiv boons from utilty skills pulse 2 more times on a 6secs

Just alac isnt enough , they should add a thing like heal player around when you end an overload , to add up the loss of bastion of elements.

i am not even talking about catalyst , when you hear that 0.30% of players in raid content is defining méta ... there is no hope.

Edited July 25, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Elem will never die. It just suffer a lot more than others in life.

[soulknight.9620]

54 minutes ago, Asek.1869 said:

What build are you using when playing condi weaver?

Full viper, runes of elementalist, sigils of geomancy and earth, for traits i go fire 1 1 1, earth 2 1 2, weaver 1 1 1. For utility slots: heal signet, primordial stance, GoEP, signet of fire, weave self as an ult. 
 

54 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

You cannot deny there is a problem with the whole ele class

Not saying there are no problems. Im not blind lol. Ofc ele is lackluster, but you can make it work to a certain extent.  

[the krytan assassin.9235]

2 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

While it seems decent in pvp and wvw

Haven't played that much pvp, so can't argue on that aspect, but for wvw ele is actually in a very bad spot (only better then thief for zergfights). Staff dps is fragile AF and basically lost all Burst potential in the may balance patch. Tempest is somewhat decent, but is totally outclassed by engie. Stealth & superspeed are mandatory for zergbattles, ele can't provide either of them.

 

The only semi viable ele build is a Cata hammer brawler build right now and no1 even bothered to put it on metabattle during the last couple of months. 

[Castiel.9048]

In all honesty, I recommend making a big break from Ele and move to Guardian, Engineer, or Necromancer.

It gets very, very, very tiring and exhausting trying to fight for a spot in group play (instanced PvE and WvW). 

Endurance has been depleted...

I myself have moved on after playing from the start as an Ele, and let me say, the grass is not only greener, but so much smoother.

Park the Ele at a chest and move on. Perhaps it will come back in the span of 2-3 years when no one plays it.

My recommendation at least.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Castiel.9048

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Elem will never die. It just suffer a lot more than others in life.

It would if it were no downstate week...

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

As of right now for pve, nope. Weaver is hard, but you can also adapt the condi rotation for an easier time doing DPS. Power weaver is pretty easy. Power catalyst is hard but very very viable right now (especially as a DPS tank, as you get extra toughness with no gear investment via elemental empowerment). Heal and dps alacrity tempest are also good options. The only thing that died was quick cata because they took a shotgun to it.

[soulknight.9620]

10 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

As of right now for pve, nope. Weaver is hard, but you can also adapt the condi rotation for an easier time doing DPS. Power weaver is pretty easy. Power catalyst is hard but very very viable right now (especially as a DPS tank, as you get extra toughness with no gear investment via elemental empowerment). Heal and dps alacrity tempest are also good options. The only thing that died was quick cata because they took a shotgun to it.

Power weaver is weaker than condi one, so no point in taking power weaver over condi (power weaver requires a 1-2 conjures to get the dps on the lvl, which is not a "simple" rotation).

Power cata requires a rly good setup to do mediocre dps (just check virtuoso/soulbeast damage).

From what ive seen the tanking doesnt seems to work since the buff stats are not somehow calculated in agro mechanics in raids (we tried it a couple weeks ago, i couldnt get an agro with +20% stats over a guys with 1100 toughness, but im not quite sure about that, needs more testing).

Tempest needs some more work from anet, atm its inefficient at least. 

On the other hand quick cata works decently, it gets around 24k-26k dps, which is kinda on par with other quick specs (qFB is clearly not balanced atm). 

Edited July 25, 2022 by soulknight.9620

[zeyeti.8347]

3 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

As of right now for pve, nope. Weaver is hard, but you can also adapt the condi rotation for an easier time doing DPS. Power weaver is pretty easy. Power catalyst is hard but very very viable right now (especially as a DPS tank, as you get extra toughness with no gear investment via elemental empowerment). Heal and dps alacrity tempest are also good options. The only thing that died was quick cata because they took a shotgun to it.

I agree with you , but all the stuff you say about ele , other spec do it better , weaver is melee , you have virtuoso who has the same damage output from a 0 to 1200 range , tempest as alac , you have engi who is more reliable with mech (as heal or as dps), as for catalyst i tried my best on golem i barely reach 30k...

 

It's always the same , yeah ele isnt so bad but when you compare it to the others , it just smell like dead fish . I mean even when you add all specs its less than 4% players who take it in raids , even holosmith alone is above 4%.

 

And i wouldnt say they "shotgun" the catalyst quickness , they nuked it hard , the -10% damage done when you take spectacular sphere has to be one of the most disgusting nerf they 've done (just before warriors banners ofc).

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

I agree with you , but all the stuff you say about ele , other spec do it better , weaver is melee , you have virtuoso who has the same damage output from a 0 to 1200 range , tempest as alac , you have engi who is more reliable with mech (as heal or as dps), as for catalyst i tried my best on golem i barely reach 30k...

 

It's always the same , yeah ele isnt so bad but when you compare it to the others , it just smell like dead fish . I mean even when you add all specs its less than 4% players who take it in raids , even holosmith alone is above 4%.

 

And i wouldnt say they "shotgun" the catalyst quickness , they nuked it hard , the -10% damage done when you take spectacular sphere has to be one of the most disgusting nerf they 've done (just before warriors banners ofc).

If you're using GW2 wingman as your source for class representation, you appear to be using the all-time numbers which include when ele specs were actually meta back in the first half of 2018 and prior (Yeah, it's been 4 years since an ele spec was meta.  Sad, huh?).  The numbers in the latest segment are about 2.5% for raids, 1.5% for fractals, and 3.5% for strikes - and weaver has the dubious distinction of failing to top 1% in any of these modes!

[Sunshine.5014]

8 hours ago, Asek.1869 said:

As in topic, I want to know if currently ele is dead in pve content. I love playing ele he is my main, be it weaver or cata, but after last patch and current new mecha meta I fell unwanted in this game, no matter where I  look i see no ele, tried to join some strikes but was kicked out for playing weaver, and even when I join I'm mostly a mascot when rest of team is full of mecha. So I want to know is there any future for ele or is it time to make a big break and hope for better? If somone fell simmilar or disagree with me pls write, I want to know your thoughts (sry for my english)

Sis/Bro, follow my footsteps! 

I'm a Mech main now, and I've never been more happy. I frequently go back to the Ele forums to help people migrate to Mech. Check out Rifle Mech on snowcrows. Make the switch and be happy!

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

I agree with you , but all the stuff you say about ele , other spec do it better , weaver is melee , you have virtuoso who has the same damage output from a 0 to 1200 range , tempest as alac , you have engi who is more reliable with mech (as heal or as dps), as for catalyst i tried my best on golem i barely reach 30k...

 

It's always the same , yeah ele isnt so bad but when you compare it to the others , it just smell like dead fish . I mean even when you add all specs its less than 4% players who take it in raids , even holosmith alone is above 4%.

 

And i wouldnt say they "shotgun" the catalyst quickness , they nuked it hard , the -10% damage done when you take spectacular sphere has to be one of the most disgusting nerf they 've done (just before warriors banners ofc).

This isn't even entirely true. Condi weaver can achieve the same results with mainhand scepter, which has 900 range, even compared to sword- dagger, sword, and scepter are your options for condi weaver and are used in different situations, with sword just being the main one to pick as its also used in power weaver. Tempest is VERY reliable alacrity as other key boons (i.e. a LOT of might from fire, protection from earth) come at least in part from overloads, and overload water is very good healing- youre effectively triple overloading for boons/healing, with each giving 14s of alacrity at 100% boon duration, so 42s of alacrity total. Catalyst hits the 'good' DPS range of 35-37k, albeit with decent difficulty, as well as helping shore up boons like might, fury, and resolution with no real hassle on the catalysts part (as they are simply part of the rotation).

 

The usage numbers aren't everything, and it's pretty dang effective. Ele could use some buffs (spectacular sphere doesn't need a 10% damage nerf, you're already not taking the DPS trait, Lucid Singularity could have alacrity come from elsewhere but the flexibility of it being on overloads isn't actually that bad in practice, you have 2 free utility slots as of right now for heal tempest meaning you can be a mechanic monkey pretty easily, and weaver could use some damage or survivability buffs to compensate for it still being made of glass), but its not in as bad a spot as most people think, at least in terms of pug use.

[Junkpile.7439]

Completed newest PvE episode while playing marauder berserker core ele without problems.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

It's not dead per se.  Ele is capable of completing all content in this game effectively with at least one of it's specializations.  However, ele is generally neither wanted nor demanded, because it doesn't do anything unique or special on its own.  It's harder to play with no discernable benefit at the moment.  The biggest weakness facing ele is that, to do it's competitive damage, it needs to have all utilities and all traits dedicated toward damage.  This leaves it without a safety net, which makes it much higher risk to play.

[zeyeti.8347]

21 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

This isn't even entirely true. Condi weaver can achieve the same results with mainhand scepter, which has 900 range, even compared to sword- dagger, sword, and scepter are your options for condi weaver and are used in different situations, with sword just being the main one to pick as its also used in power weaver. Tempest is VERY reliable alacrity as other key boons (i.e. a LOT of might from fire, protection from earth) come at least in part from overloads, and overload water is very good healing- youre effectively triple overloading for boons/healing, with each giving 14s of alacrity at 100% boon duration, so 42s of alacrity total. Catalyst hits the 'good' DPS range of 35-37k, albeit with decent difficulty, as well as helping shore up boons like might, fury, and resolution with no real hassle on the catalysts part (as they are simply part of the rotation).

 

The usage numbers aren't everything, and it's pretty dang effective. Ele could use some buffs (spectacular sphere doesn't need a 10% damage nerf, you're already not taking the DPS trait, Lucid Singularity could have alacrity come from elsewhere but the flexibility of it being on overloads isn't actually that bad in practice, you have 2 free utility slots as of right now for heal tempest meaning you can be a mechanic monkey pretty easily, and weaver could use some damage or survivability buffs to compensate for it still being made of glass), but its not in as bad a spot as most people think, at least in terms of pug use.

Sorry but i dont agree with you (my point of view , heh) , you say its part of it's rotation , ok , but:

for might : you have people to stay near you , the f1 overload has a pretty small aoe, can use warhorn skill 4 in fire ofc 

But again as comparison , look at mecha : give might when his mech hit a target (perma 15 stack of might , being afk).

f2 skill on support side (ridiculously OP) give alacrity , prot. , aegis and stab , and it's not enough it's a break stun area for people and clean 3 condi and all of this with 0 sec cast time on a 600 range .... .

I dont deny mech is stupidily easy to play and i surely dont want ele to be a dumb spec where you can go afk and still hit the 25k/s damage. But for it being very difficult to play , i think it should be more efficient (and i mean a lot more)

There is a meaning it being the less played class ever in endgame , it doesnt fit there thats all , sure you can take it with more exp. people , who will not feel the difference (cause they dont need stab or aegis , nor barrier), but still on many roles it lacks everything , boons , dps , and whatsoever

If you can hit 35k/37k with it , great for you , i personnaly see 0 benefit taking an ele in my group as dps , support or heal , and i speak personal experience , everytime i had an ele in my group either raids or strikes cm , it was underwhelming in any roles , couldnt heal on demand when needed , was last dps ( near our healmech ....) , so you may be part of the 0,02% people who actually press the juice out of the ele , but for me atm i only have rotten oranges with no juice playing it.

As same as you said , wingman is not a reference to everything , snowcrow benchmarks neither ... remember thats done on raid training golem , ill gladly see you hit that bench on Ankka cm or KO cm , and keep it.

19 hours ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Completed newest PvE episode while playing marauder berserker core ele without problems.

You can even complete that  playing naked with a drumstick as weapon ... and drunk.

Edited July 26, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[soulknight.9620]

On 7/25/2022 at 11:48 PM, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

This isn't even entirely true. Condi weaver can achieve the same results with mainhand scepter, which has 900 range, even compared to sword- dagger, sword, and scepter are your options for condi weaver and are used in different situations, with sword just being the main one to pick as its also used in power weaver. Tempest is VERY reliable alacrity as other key boons (i.e. a LOT of might from fire, protection from earth) come at least in part from overloads, and overload water is very good healing- youre effectively triple overloading for boons/healing, with each giving 14s of alacrity at 100% boon duration, so 42s of alacrity total. Catalyst hits the 'good' DPS range of 35-37k, albeit with decent difficulty, as well as helping shore up boons like might, fury, and resolution with no real hassle on the catalysts part (as they are simply part of the rotation).

Scepter is a dps loss for condi weaver comparing to sword/focus. Its a well known fact. The dps loss is not that significant (1-2k), but thats that.
Tempest is NOT realiable at all. Thats its main problem and that is what needed to be fixed by anet. If you test it on a golem thats one thing, but if you are doing frac CMs, t4 fracs, hard strikes, raids, there is a lot of mechanics you need to participate, which results in interupting ur overloads quite frequently (yeah that 1 stack of stab doesnt help much). A mistake costs your subgroup 7 sec or so of alac downtime (which is a lot of lost dps, unless you overcap the boon duration and loose a decent amount of stats). Same goes for the "boon accessebility". Since positioning of groups in various hard encounters is rather scattered. If you overload water - you literary say goodbye to a decent chunk of your healing potential. Sure you can compensate that by getting heals from Arcane GM trait, and utility skills like frost bow, but its far more efficient to NOT use water overload unless you absolutly need it (otherwise you get a wipe or smtn). 

Dont get me wrong it works on a simpler encounters, but try that build lets say on 99CM frac on Arkk. 
As for catalyst. Even snowcrows ideal benchmark hits for 37k dps, which in reality nets you somewhat 32-35k dps in good conditions and good hands (the rotation is ping dependant and really complicated). Average players struggles to get even 30k dps with cata. You can actually get a lot easier rotation and far better dps on most other classes more reliably. 
Thats the main issue with ele - its not reliable at all. And it has almost no "oh kitten" buttons and "slack" to be desired in any content.

The only players that still play ele are just fans of that profession (for aestetic reasons or just enjoying the gameplay). Thats it.