Repairing all walls, gates except SMC

[Wushuspinner.5689]

Please Anet, can you increase the wxp for repairing everything other than SMC? Since you removed the pip regen from credit for repairing people will not be bothered to repair after attacks. I like that you removed the bots standing repairing every 5 minutes to get credit but with that fix you have created another problem.

[Strider Pj.2193]

According to the Wiki, it’s 2 WxP per supply unit.  So, if you put 10 supply into a wall, you get 20 WxP.  I guess, I don’t know how much you would want to increase it to?  After putting 100 supply into a wall, you’ve got as much WxP as killing 4-15 players…..  Under the current rules.  

Killing a player is a maximum of 60 WxP, and if they are a scrub, probably more like 5 lol.

 

Just not sure that is equitable.

 

If a server can’t be bothered to help repair a structure, then it tells me maybe they shouldn’t have it.

 

[LSD.4673]

SMC walls aren't worth the time to repair. Inner is where the action happens. Outer is under constant treb/cata attack.

[Riba.3271]

Honestly I do not see this affect anyone else than PvE players that are just farming gift of battle or legendary ring. Otherwise it is just nobrainer to repair a wall if you care about the objective (even if it is just for more bags)

 

Often commanders/guilds do not have time to repair wall as they're needed elsewhere.

[Dagger.2035]

I've been solo roaming a bit the last couple weeks on the red borderlands and the participation timer does tend to run out quickly when defending or attacking keeps.  It seems like a quick fix would be to increase the participation timer to 10 minutes when you destroy siege and 10 minutes when you use siege to destroy a structure.

The 10 minutes after destroying siege will give you time to repair a keep after attack. The 10 minutes after destroying a structure will give you time to run supply and setup siege inside the keep.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Dagger.2035

[Strider Pj.2193]

12 hours ago, Dagger.2035 said:

I've been solo roaming a bit the last couple weeks on the red borderlands and the participation timer does tend to run out quickly when defending or attacking keeps.  It seems like a quick fix would be to increase the participation timer to 10 minutes when you destroy siege and 10 minutes when you use siege to destroy a structure.

The 10 minutes after destroying siege will give you time to repair a keep after attack. The 10 minutes after destroying a structure will give you time to run supply and setup siege inside the keep.

Couple of questions:  when you say ‘destroy a structure’ do you mean the wall coming down, and/or the gate opening?  Currently we get WxP for both of those,  higher for higher tiered structures, and more for walls over gates.  and it currently (at least according to the wiki) gives 5 minutes of participation.

 

That being said, the wiki also states you get 10 minutes for defending an objective, (which should be getting credit for the defense event) but my understanding was that had changed..?

 

 

 

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

I don't think we need extra WxP for repairing, I don't think that people that repair do so for it. That said it is annoying when you are left solo repairing and you can watch your contribution going down. Few people already repaired and now even less do. As predicted have been seeing less people do so and more where walls are just left damaged. Same goes for outnumbered, even less will now defend when they feel its pointless why try, time to leave map. This was predicted after the changes and so far its been playing out. Will probably get worse until there is a reason for a server to win. But no, don't think we need more WxP but it would be nice if repairing didn't imply people weren't contributing. 

 

[Xenesis.6389]

On 7/31/2022 at 1:40 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I don't think we need extra WxP for repairing, I don't think that people that repair do so for it. That said it is annoying when you are left solo repairing and you can watch your contribution going down. Few people already repaired and now even less do. As predicted have been seeing less people do so and more where walls are just left damaged. Same goes for outnumbered, even less will now defend when they feel its pointless why try, time to leave map. This was predicted after the changes and so far its been playing out. Will probably get worse until there is a reason for a server to win. But no, don't think we need more WxP but it would be nice if repairing didn't imply people weren't contributing. 

Commanders should use their zerg to do large repairs, it takes them 5sec to do what someone has to spend like 5mins doing solo. Unfortunately most of them don't, some would rather bark orders for pugs to repair, some would rather it remain low or even open to promote more "fites". Yet the same people who also want to hide behind walls instead of go out for a fight, wait until the wall is open, stealth push, one push die, and jump map anyways... 🤷‍♂️

But hey if they don't care why should anyone else....

[Karagee.6830]

On 7/30/2022 at 6:06 PM, Strider Pj.2193 said:

According to the Wiki, it’s 2 WxP per supply unit.  So, if you put 10 supply into a wall, you get 20 WxP.  I guess, I don’t know how much you would want to increase it to?  After putting 100 supply into a wall, you’ve got as much WxP as killing 4-15 players…..  Under the current rules.  

Killing a player is a maximum of 60 WxP, and if they are a scrub, probably more like 5 lol.

 

Just not sure that is equitable.

 

If a server can’t be bothered to help repair a structure, then it tells me maybe they shouldn’t have it.

 

In the time you do 5 trips to repair you can take a camp, kill 6+ guards and 2 donkeys

[Karagee.6830]

On 7/31/2022 at 4:15 PM, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Couple of questions:  when you say ‘destroy a structure’ do you mean the wall coming down, and/or the gate opening?  Currently we get WxP for both of those,  higher for higher tiered structures, and more for walls over gates.  and it currently (at least according to the wiki) gives 5 minutes of participation.

 

That being said, the wiki also states you get 10 minutes for defending an objective, (which should be getting credit for the defense event) but my understanding was that had changed..?

 

 

 

 

You only get objective defender when the timer is up, so within 2.5 mins from someone knocking down the wall or contesting the keep/tower. No participation reset after the timer is gone.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Stand The Wall.6987]

i think the idea that players need rewards for incentive to do every little thing is nonsense. people repaired stuff long before these rewards. commanders have more sway over what players will do on their server then some pips, blame them. even when commanders don't tell their people to repair stuff a couple always do anyways. 

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 hour ago, Karagee.6830 said:

You only get objective defender when the timer is up, so within 2.5 mins from someone knocking down the wall or contesting the keep/tower. No participation reset after the timer is gone.

So... how are you noticing these walls are down?    Are you just going from tower to tower to find walls to repair?  We’re you part of the actual defending force that pushed people off?

 

If it’s the second, you definitely get the credit for defender.  If it’s the first, then you need to decide how important it is.  Personally, I’d repair it and keep playing.  Participation comes.

1 hour ago, Karagee.6830 said:

In the time you do 5 trips to repair you can take a camp, kill 6+ guards and 2 donkeys

Depends on the wall.  Most (and no, definitely not all) are close to a supply depot.  
 

Still don’t think it should be more rewarding than killing 6 players just to repair one wall.  

[Karagee.6830]

10 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

So... how are you noticing these walls are down?    Are you just going from tower to tower to find walls to repair?  We’re you part of the actual defending force that pushed people off?

 

If it’s the second, you definitely get the credit for defender.  If it’s the first, then you need to decide how important it is.  Personally, I’d repair it and keep playing.  Participation comes.

Depends on the wall.  Most (and no, definitely not all) are close to a supply depot.  
 

Still don’t think it should be more rewarding than killing 6 players just to repair one wall.  

Yeah unless you were defending or got there right after an attack got repelled (or it's still going on but the attackers won't beat the timer) you almost have no chance of getting objective defender by repairing a wall. You would need to know where an not-fully-repaired wall is AND wait for an enemy to contest. It's easier to hide and gank one or two people in a camp you own, than waiting for that.

Killing players is dogshit wxp (unless it's some special person: I got 3k+ and 5k+ wxp for killing some dudes in the past, maybe they were Anet guys, no idea), repairing walls is also dogshit wxp compared to capping, expecially of you can maintain the killstreak bonus, so...for example if you wait and repair the lake or briar tower wall (which are as close to a supply depot as it gets) and miss out on the spawn camp nearby, you will be significantly worse off wxp-wise.

To incentivise fighting they would need to make loot bags more frequent and more rewarding, but wxp wise it will never be better than capping because it would be much easier to exploit.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Dagger.2035]

On 7/31/2022 at 9:15 AM, Strider Pj.2193 said:

That being said, the wiki also states you get 10 minutes for defending an objective, (which should be getting credit for the defense event) but my understanding was that had changed..?

I don't remember what happened with the defense event, but it was my second time defending against same group.  The first time I used cannons and mortars.  The second time they cleared the siege and used rams.  I was able to defend using a dragon banner.  I did down a few people, but any downs were resurrected.  I had to keep applying damage so I didn't have time to repair.  I also think they starred me down for a couple minutes after the rams were destroyed.  My participation was already dropping by that point so I had to partially repair and leave to find some objective to flip before coming back to finish the repair.

I don't think the timer changes I suggested could be abused.  They would just clean things up so you can play the game normally without going out of your way to manage your participation.  Maybe the defend objective timer should dropped to 5 minutes if they buff the ones I suggested.
That said, I usually don't bother roaming or defending objectives.  I think more changes are needed to stop the karma train behavior and reward more tactical siege placement.  Proxy catapults are a problem and should be more vulnerable to arrow carts and player damage. Proxy catapults are too effective when you outnumber the defenders.  Back in the day you could punish larger groups for lazy siege placement, but now it seems like the defenders don't have as many options and have to surrender objectives without any resistance.

[TheGrimm.5624]

15 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

So... how are you noticing these walls are down?    Are you just going from tower to tower to find walls to repair?  We’re you part of the actual defending force that pushed people off?

 

Each to their own so not speaking for Karagee here. Defenders check swords all the time. Its triage from there, are they in, go for them first, are they working the objective, report and get them off, then if the defenders care comes the dull part of repair so that you don't lose your stuff. Its not about the WxP but its irksome that its also considered the same as standing in spawn when its about caring if you lose your objectives after defending and its about the perception of the change that implies that they have the same impact on the match. Its easier and more rewarding to not care and just jump to the attackers borderland and attack their stuff. As the saying goes 10% will always repair even if solo, 10% will never repair and 80% vary. Since rewards are solo based, most will just move on.  Comms know if they are idle to long pugs will drift and each repair drains the supply they might need to attack, and most guild groups just move on after the onset since they have people expecting action. So the changes that make people actively lose participation only makes that worse and leaves less of us to repair which takes longer. A guild running joke is whoever gets a broken spoon drop first wins the night. With vast rewards as that everyone can see that rewards are what draws people to WvW. Maybe a better change might have been that when an objective flips all the damage that was done to take it remains in place until repaired to better balance attacking versus defending.

[Xenesis.6389]

5 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Killing players is dogshit wxp (unless it's some special person: I got 3k+ and 5k+ wxp for killing some dudes in the past, maybe they were Anet guys, no idea)

You do realize a wvw level is only 5k exp? You most likely got a wxp drop, there's no special wxp for killing devs, but there is a secret achievement for finishing them.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience#WXP_consumables

Player kills varies from 0-60 depending on how long they've been alive. And it's in between getting 50 from a tower lord to 75 for a keep lord, meanwhile you could kill hundreds or thousands of players a night, because all you really need to do is tag them. Bigger chunks at a time 100-1000 come from captures which don't happen as often as a kill can.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience

[Sahne.6950]

22 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Killing players is dogshit wxp (unless it's some special person: I got 3k+ and 5k+ wxp for killing some dudes in the past, maybe they were Anet guys, no idea),

you most likely completed a achievement on those kills, this achievement did then hold WXP as a reward, resulting in a juicy WXP drop.

[Karagee.6830]

33 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

you most likely completed a achievement on those kills, this achievement did then hold WXP as a reward, resulting in a juicy WXP drop.

Nah people in my roaming party also got it, which is why we thought it was something like that.

[Karagee.6830]

16 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

You do realize a wvw level is only 5k exp? You most likely got a wxp drop, there's no special wxp for killing devs, but there is a secret achievement for finishing them.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience#WXP_consumables

Player kills varies from 0-60 depending on how long they've been alive. And it's in between getting 50 from a tower lord to 75 for a keep lord, meanwhile you could kill hundreds or thousands of players a night, because all you really need to do is tag them. Bigger chunks at a time 100-1000 come from captures which don't happen as often as a kill can.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Experience

I know all of this, what is your point? These people we killed were on the open field while roaming, not even near an objecrive if memory serves me right, and we all got xp. Other guys in my party said they had heard about this happening but had never seen it themselves. We all got the xp. It was like 2 years ago probably and never seen anything like that ever again.

[Sahne.6950]

14 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I know all of this, what is your point?

guildmission? Serverdesync, where it buffered the WXP of the last hour for example and then gave it all at once?

 

i also think its funny how you write that you got 5k WXP but you dont know why... maybe it was a anetmod or something. Then someone explains to you how wxp gain works and that it could not possibly be a Anetstaff giving this much wxp.

And your just like: I KNOW ALL OF THIS WHATS YOUR POINT?  

rude to say the least.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Karagee.6830]

17 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

Each to their own so not speaking for Karagee here. Defenders check swords all the time. Its triage from there, are they in, go for them first, are they working the objective, report and get them off, then if the defenders care comes the dull part of repair so that you don't lose your stuff. Its not about the WxP but its irksome that its also considered the same as standing in spawn when its about caring if you lose your objectives after defending and its about the perception of the change that implies that they have the same impact on the match. Its easier and more rewarding to not care and just jump to the attackers borderland and attack their stuff. As the saying goes 10% will always repair even if solo, 10% will never repair and 80% vary. Since rewards are solo based, most will just move on.  Comms know if they are idle to long pugs will drift and each repair drains the supply they might need to attack, and most guild groups just move on after the onset since they have people expecting action. So the changes that make people actively lose participation only makes that worse and leaves less of us to repair which takes longer. A guild running joke is whoever gets a broken spoon drop first wins the night. With vast rewards as that everyone can see that rewards are what draws people to WvW. Maybe a better change might have been that when an objective flips all the damage that was done to take it remains in place until repaired to better balance attacking versus defending.

When you get orange swords (fight) or contest swords (possible enemy attack) sometimes it's too late. Water camp can be already flipping when it appears to be contested because you can pull all the guards without pulling the supervisor. Most towers and keep have like a 30 seconds grace period before they appear contested. For T3 sunnyhill/woodhaven even with a radar you may realistically have around 30 seconds to save it depending on how many catapults are being used.

The reality is: repairing is a subpar use of time for roamers, most people on my server will repair regardless, but if you are trying to maximise your boosters you shouldn't wait. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

22 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

guildmission? Serverdesync, where it buffered the WXP of the last hour for example and then gave it all at once?

 

i also think its funny how you write that you got 5k WXP but you dont know why... maybe it was a anetmod or something. Then someone explains to you how wxp gain works and that it could not possibly be a Anetstaff giving this much wxp.

And your just like: I KNOW ALL OF THIS WHATS YOUR POINT?  

rude to say the least.

I know what the wxp is from all possible things you do in wvw, including finishing enemies etc. That wasn't it and it wasn't a round number, either. 3 of us got the same amount for killing those players. No guildmissions as those are done on Friday, not when we roam in a small group. We came up with that explanation only because there wasn't any explanation.

Please try again, I'm sure you can do better than saying I don't know how wxp works (which is certainly disrespectful) or it was some sort of bug (which it might have been, but then multiple people got the same exact bug, with the same exact value twice, so keep that in mind).

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[HazyDaisy.4107]

I mean, if you're going to continue to promote the change was made to deter bots (but only in the bls because obviously that's not a problem in ebg...) then I'm not sure what you're asking for. 

 

If repairing isn't participating enough for a timer extension for those that still chose to defend, then why should wasting keep supply to repair a wall actively being trebbed be worth more experience for the enemy alt accounts waiting for tacts to come off cool down?

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by HazyDaisy.4107

[Sahne.6950]

20 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Please try again, I'm sure you can do better than saying I don't know how wxp works (which is certainly disrespectful coming from an account as young as yours)

WHAT!? i have not said anything like that... i literally explained to you how you treated Xenesis when he tried to be helpfull... i just summarized what happened.. i have NOT claimed you dont know how Wxp works....

If anything, you said that yourself when you claimed that it could have been a anet staff that awarded you 5k+ WXP....

"an account as young as yours"......My account literally exists since 2 weeks after Guildwars2´s release.... are you okey?

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Karagee.6830]

8 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

WHAT!? i have not said that you dont know how wxp works... you said that yourself when you claimed that it could have been a anet staff that awarded you 5k+ WXP....

My account literally exists since 2 weeks after Guildwars2´s release....

are you okey?

Yeah I'm okey. You have been in the game for years and joined forums in January. Yuo okey?

There was no explanation, take it at face value. If you don't know why this happened and it hasn't happened to you, your hypothesis is no better (and most definitely worse) than those of players who have been playing wvw for years every day. Okey?

Also this is irrelevant to the discussion in this thread. I only said this thing happened to me and other people in my party and they knew it happened to others simply to say for some weird reason some kills give abnormal amounts of wxp. For me, it has been rarer than precursor drops and you have never seen this clearly.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Karagee.6830