Is staff now go to weapon for reaper over axe now that it got buffed?

[Axl.8924]

What do you guys think DPS wise?

[KrHome.1920]

In the dps rotation axe is basically just axe 2 and then immediately weapon- / shroud-swap. After 10 seconds leave shroud and do another axe 2, then swap to GS.

Axe 2 has a 4.0 multiplier at 1.75 seconds. The highest multiplier for staff is 3.0 on staff 5 at 0.75 seconds cast time.

Casting staff 5 or staff 4 and 5 (which also gives you an explosion finisher) will outperform axe, when you just look at the burst (so for open world it will be great). But in the dps rotation it's inferior because of the 18 second cooldown of staff 5. In the dps rotation you cast axe 2 two times within 8 seconds and for the rest of the time you use shroud and GS which are both stronger than staff and axe anyway.

TL;DR: No it is not.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Reaper spends most of its time in shroud, just like Harbinger. The only purpose your equipped weapon services is to quickly refill lifeforce during the cooldown, so you can use either weapon. Staff doesn't refill life force as fast without the marks trait though so if you can't take then you'll have to stick with axe.

 

Ideally you'll use both and dump all the skills during the 10sec cd to get back into shroud as soon as possible, as that should always refill your life force bar nearly to full.

 

If you mean off-meta builds that don't camp shroud 90% of the time with Signet of Undeath and Signets of Suffering, then the situation will be unchanged: axe will be superior for single-target, while staff will be superior for dealing with multiple targets.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Obtena.7952]

Depends on how you play really. I see reasons to run staff in team or solo PVE. Axe as a team, not so much. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Axl.8924]

Maybe staff can be used more for aoe builds for big ones like the way eles used staff 

[Valisha.8650]

Yes, because Staff is more fun.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

i would think the "go to" would still be axe (+offhand) because it has better lifeforce gain and also because staff marks dont work on certain bosses/structures

number wise, axe gets 4.0 (x1.25 from vuln bonus so 5.0) before shroud and another after (10.0 total i guess)

for staff, you could probably do #3 #5 & #2 (1.8 + 3.0 + 1.5 = 6.3) before, and #2 #4 #3 (1.5 + 1.32 + 1.8 = 4.62) after. this adds up to 10.92, but staff is 2h with 10% higher avg wep strength, meaning this would look more like ~12.0 vs 10.0 (not counting random condis that staff has but axe doesnt)

even though staff looks better (also has aoe and fear and stuff), im sure it has its flaws (e.g. more punishing/tighter rotation due to lower lifeforce gain, less vuln output). in the end whatever weapon you use in the 2nd set is personal choice, axe in the current optimal rotation barely accounts higher than 5% of the total output

[Axl.8924]

I mean cd on multiple such as putrid mark got buffed so now it has lower CD so maybe for more area of effect bombing or i dunno it might help a lil for condi reaper or condi core nec although thats a entire can of worms already talked about.

There was that weirdness of course of wether you'd use dagger ever on a reaper but meh i always tend to go axe for vuln then GS for massive DPS.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Axl.8924

[Randin.5701]

3 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

i would think the "go to" would still be axe (+offhand) because it has better lifeforce gain and also because staff marks dont work on certain bosses/structures

 

Well that, at least, is mostly no longer a thing since... I want to say the Bjora Marches part 2 patch. I mean, they don't trigger on castle walls in WvW, but other than that, just about anything damageable will trigger a mark now.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Randin.5701

[Wolfb.7025]

On 8/16/2022 at 4:23 PM, KrHome.1920 said:

In the dps rotation axe is basically just axe 2 and then immediately weapon- / shroud-swap. After 10 seconds leave shroud and do another axe 2, then swap to GS.

Axe 2 has a 4.0 multiplier at 1.75 seconds. The highest multiplier for staff is 3.0 on staff 5 at 0.75 seconds cast time.

Casting staff 5 or staff 4 and 5 (which also gives you an explosion finisher) will outperform axe, when you just look at the burst (so for open world it will be great). But in the dps rotation it's inferior because of the 18 second cooldown of staff 5. In the dps rotation you cast axe 2 two times within 8 seconds and for the rest of the time you use shroud and GS which are both stronger than staff and axe anyway.

TL;DR: No it is not.

Consider that you can precast staff symbols, and axe2 depends on the boss having 25 vuln.

Using all 4 symbols is as fast as Axe 2.

[Xae.7204]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:23 PM, KrHome.1920 said:

In the dps rotation axe is basically just axe 2 and then immediately weapon- / shroud-swap. After 10 seconds leave shroud and do another axe 2, then swap to GS.

Axe 2 has a 4.0 multiplier at 1.75 seconds. The highest multiplier for staff is 3.0 on staff 5 at 0.75 seconds cast time.

Casting staff 5 or staff 4 and 5 (which also gives you an explosion finisher) will outperform axe, when you just look at the burst (so for open world it will be great). But in the dps rotation it's inferior because of the 18 second cooldown of staff 5. In the dps rotation you cast axe 2 two times within 8 seconds and for the rest of the time you use shroud and GS which are both stronger than staff and axe anyway.

TL;DR: No it is not.

So power necro is so broken they can double the coefficients but the best swap weapon is still Axe despite axe having such miserable coefficients that only one skill is worth using.

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Xae.7204 said:

So power necro is so broken they can double the coefficients but the best swap weapon is still Axe despite axe having such miserable coefficients that only one skill is worth using.

That's a bad conclusion considering if anything breaks power Necro, it's the performance in shroud, not the DPS of what is obviously not JUST a DPS weapon. 

[KrHome.1920]

8 hours ago, Xae.7204 said:

So power necro is so broken they can double the coefficients but the best swap weapon is still Axe despite axe having such miserable coefficients that only one skill is worth using.

That's a weird conclusion.

Necro has 3 weaponsets (including shroud). This means - as long as shroud is viable in terms of damage, which is the case for reaper - necro can afford to use one weaponset only for one single burst skill and then just swap to another weaponset.

And then of course you pick the weapon skill with the best mix of damage multiplier, cooldown and life force generation, which is ghastly claws. This skill fits perfectly in the reaper dps rotation against a single target.

As I said, for any open world content, spamming staff 2, 3, 4, 5 will be superior. And hitting groups of trash mobs with staff autoattacks does also generate a lot of life force.

Edited August 19, 2022 by KrHome.1920

[ruikarikun.9402]

Can scourge use staff after this changes?

[Asum.4960]

4 hours ago, ruikarikun.9402 said:

Can scourge use staff after this changes?

Without a Condi on the Staff AA (and an aftercast reduction of it) I can't see this working out well at least. You don't have a Shroud skillbar to dip into to bridge the time after spamming the Marks until going back to Scepter - and you really don't want to be stuck with a >1.3 second real cast time AA with an even post buff just 1.0 power coefficient. 

Not on a Power build, and especially not on a Condi build.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Zaret.1450]

i think they could be close in use, staff is gonna get decent dmg and also bring utility like condi cleanse and fear, while axe probably bring more dmg and life force, it might depend on the boss, for sloth for example i can see reapers using staff to explode slumblings or cleanse poison, and stuff.

[Sifu.9745]

22 hours ago, ruikarikun.9402 said:

Can scourge use staff after this changes?

Only if you play Scourge with Celestial gear or some other hybrid gear.