Brutality trait working?

[Santo.2419]

Hey all,

 

Is this trait bugged? I play in WvW if that makes a dif, but it feels like I get 0 strips of stability with this.

 

Are shortbow skills not considered strike? I tried with hammer too and no strips showed, so I dunno...maybe they don't register on arcdps?

 

Brutality - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Gain quickness when you swap weapons. While you have quickness, your strikes remove stability.
This removal effect can only occur once per interval on each target.

 Quickness (3s): Skills and actions are faster.

 Boon Removed

 Stacks Removed per Strike: 1

 Interval: 1 second

 Combat Only

Edited August 29, 2022 by Santo.2419

[ArthurDent.9538]

Probably has to do with how brutality only removes on stack of stab where an actual strip would remove all stacks regardless of how many there are. In essence it isn't a real boon strip just something unique.

[Shao.7236]

You get to break through 2 stacks if you CC with Quickness. That's the most you get if not for the Quickness every weapon swap.

[MysteryDude.1572]

I got to test it in armistice with a guard guildie 

He popped syg and i used dwarf hammers on him

As long as you have quickness on you you will be striping stab on target per interval

It does not show in arc as stripps tho but the skill is working 

 

[Virdo.1540]

Its only 1 stack of quickness per 1sec interval, only if you have quickness. You are gonna hardly notice anything in terms of stability drops

[Buran.3796]

   Has also the limitation that quickness souces for Rev in WvW are severely reduced compared to PvE. Even with 50% boon duration the most you can expect is 4.5 seconds after Phase Traversal or 3 seconds with Scavenger Burst. A vanilla Guardian with Stand Your Ground! provides 6 seconds with 5 stacks of stability, and that being naked with 0 gear. 

   Brutality sounds so good on paper which earns a spot as contender to "most awesome trait which in reality does almost nothing". In PvE is uneeded and competes vs much stronger traits. In PvP is weak, as the decaffeinated Roiling Mist; in WvW  is very situational and at the end you're spending resources to grant a cc which won't do damage but is needed to land the real damage...   Instead seems just more pratical to focus on land the cc and burst your damage, or to have a high dps over time...

[Santo.2419]

10 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Has also the limitation that quickness souces for Rev in WvW are severely reduced compared to PvE. Even with 50% boon duration the most you can expect is 4.5 seconds after Phase Traversal or 3 seconds with Scavenger Burst. A vanilla Guardian with Stand Your Ground! provides 6 seconds with 5 stacks of stability, and that being naked with 0 gear. 

   Brutality sounds so good on paper which earns a spot as contender to "most awesome trait which in reality does almost nothing". In PvE is uneeded and competes vs much stronger traits. In PvP is weak, as the decaffeinated Roiling Mist; in WvW  is very situational and at the end you're spending resources to grant a cc which won't do damage but is needed to land the real damage...   Instead seems just more pratical to focus on land the cc and burst your damage, or to have a high dps over time...

 You're right, sounds like such a great trait to build around. Especially for the boon ball zergs that just blob around a keep killing whatever then roll near. A great skill to try and break them up somewhat when it's just pug clouding.

 

But, I see it seems fairly pointless for the reasons you all have given above. Especially with the stab application being so far over what you could ever strip. Too bad really.

 

  

15 hours ago, MysteryDude.1572 said:

I got to test it in armistice with a guard guildie 

He popped syg and i used dwarf hammers on him

As long as you have quickness on you you will be striping stab on target per interval

It does not show in arc as stripps tho but the skill is working 

 

 

Ahh nice, thanks for testing it out 🙂 

 

[Polar.8634]

brutality strips only 1 stack, for arc dps to count a strip you need to remove all stacks of a boon. Brutality is still worth taking if you have perma quickness and fast hitting attacks. Note Brutality has 1sec icd PER TARGET, so fast aoe attacks gonna be most effective. Demon elite, Dwarf vengefull hammers, ticking damage like SB4, Gling elemental burst, your other aoe. In case SB5 effect is efen better because it is also cc so removes 2 stacks of stab.

You dont need to remove all stab alone, just remove enough for your scourges and mesmers to land cc and it will snowball.

Anyways, banish enchantment got nerfed so heavily that i dont see reason to make rev build focused on strips

[MysteryDude.1572]

Yes , its kinda coverstrips in openfield, scourge more effective 

quickness from guards and scrappers if not stripped , will maybe put you in 4-5 strips during push/bomb 

but to be fair no rev is runing bruta in openfield , its mostly for guild builds and in 20v20s quickness is even lower 

i was trying it with diviner gear for the lulz

its feels disqusting in gvgs , there its strips gallore 

Edited August 30, 2022 by MysteryDude.1572

[Santo.2419]

12 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

brutality strips only 1 stack, for arc dps to count a strip you need to remove all stacks of a boon. Brutality is still worth taking if you have perma quickness and fast hitting attacks. Note Brutality has 1sec icd PER TARGET, so fast aoe attacks gonna be most effective. Demon elite, Dwarf vengefull hammers, ticking damage like SB4, Gling elemental burst, your other aoe. In case SB5 effect is efen better because it is also cc so removes 2 stacks of stab.

You dont need to remove all stab alone, just remove enough for your scourges and mesmers to land cc and it will snowball.

Anyways, banish enchantment got nerfed so heavily that i dont see reason to make rev build focused on strips

 

A good point. I made sure to have heartpeircer too, which then can hit 5 more in the zerg. Every bit does help, like you said.

I've not really paid to much attention to my stability stacks when in a zerg, anyone know what they usually sit at? (can effectively have 25)

I mean the 1 removed by this skill and at a 1 sec interval on top of that, plus managing quickness uptime and skill cooldowns for the strikes. It's hard to even think you'd be doing anything...not to mention the spam of application going on to replace those strips (I guess also add in anti range too, for my case). 

I'm focusing more on the larger scale tho. 

I wonder if they increased the amount of stab that was stripped (or dare I say, the stack? lol) would make it more viable or OP. 

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Santo.2419

[Za Shaloc.3908]

3 hours ago, Santo.2419 said:

 

A good point. I made sure to have heartpeircer too, which then can hit 5 more in the zerg. Every bit does help, like you said.

I've not really paid to much attention to my stability stacks when in a zerg, anyone know what they usually sit at? (can effectively have 25)

I mean the 1 removed by this skill and at a 1 sec interval on top of that, plus managing quickness uptime and skill cooldowns for the strikes. It's hard to even think you'd be doing anything...not to mention the spam of application going on to replace those strips (I guess also add in anti range too, for my case). 

I'm focusing more on the larger scale tho. 

I wonder if they increased the amount of stab that was stripped (or dare I say, the stack? lol) would make it more viable or OP. 

 

 

ANet would be wise to never buff its stab stripping potential. Boonstrips that prioritize stab are EXTREMELY strong and should be kept in tight moderation. You ever notice how an intelligent Thief can completely turn a fight if it holds its steal and waits for the right moment after a big stab CD is popped by the enemy? We don't need anything like that in a spammable form.

Being able to strip stab simply by having quickness is an extremely lenient conditional and is very easy to maximize/capitalize on. In WvW Brutality is totally great as is. I take it 95% of the time when roaming on power. The quickness on weapon swap alone is extremely strong. Is the stab stripping that impactful in large scale? Not really. There's too much stab vomit for one person alone to make a huge impact and it'd likely require a very tailored comp. But it is really great in small-scale against builds that have frequent singular applications of stab, like Tempests trying to overload. Weapon swap, Sword 2, Chaotic Release/Jade Winds.

If ANet wants to make Brutality more relevant for large-scale fights, they would have to redesign the trait to have a more specific and intentional trigger conditional. But I'd rather they just keep it as is. I love the trait and find it incredibly fun to use. On the other hand, I think the trait is solidly meh for PvE. Since its inception, I've always thought it'd be cool if it caused your CC siills to have X% increased breakbar damage when under the effects of quickness to sorta mirror the trait's design intention. Or perhaps something like gaining a higher damage modifier from the Exposed effect.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Za Shaloc.3908

[Polar.8634]

18 hours ago, Santo.2419 said:

I've not really paid to much attention to my stability stacks when in a zerg, anyone know what they usually sit at? (can effectively have 25

You can suppose on average player has about 5 stacks of stab on pushes or more if standing on stand your ground or dwarf road. 

for more quickness uptime you could take axe as offhand instead of sword on herald build and put sigil of celerity in it . In this case your axe 5 becomes really strong, removes 2 stab from 5, potentially cc people through stab and gives you quickness.

[Jobber.6348]

Stability is a stack based boon, up to 25. 
All Brutality does is remove 1 stack every 1 second as long as you are hitting an enemy while with Quickness. 

Normally, only CC capable attacks naturally remove a stack of Stability (as stability absorbs the CC and keeps the owner of the buff immune) 

Brutality used to be hella good though, with no internal cooldown. Revenants' favourite thing to do vs groups of enemies juiced up on Stability is turn on Impossible Odds, Phase Traversal in and Staff 5, deleting 25 stacks from everyone in 1 second. Ever since they added the Internal cooldown, it's not much worth using anymore since you are better off just using Mallyx to rip boons instead. 

[Shao.7236]

On 8/31/2022 at 3:14 AM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

ANet would be wise to never buff its stab stripping potential. Boonstrips that prioritize stab are EXTREMELY strong and should be kept in tight moderation. You ever notice how an intelligent Thief can completely turn a fight if it holds its steal and waits for the right moment after a big stab CD is popped by the enemy? We don't need anything like that in a spammable form.

Being able to strip stab simply by having quickness is an extremely lenient conditional and is very easy to maximize/capitalize on. In WvW Brutality is totally great as is. I take it 95% of the time when roaming on power. The quickness on weapon swap alone is extremely strong. Is the stab stripping that impactful in large scale? Not really. There's too much stab vomit for one person alone to make a huge impact and it'd likely require a very tailored comp. But it is really great in small-scale against builds that have frequent singular applications of stab, like Tempests trying to overload. Weapon swap, Sword 2, Chaotic Release/Jade Winds.

If ANet wants to make Brutality more relevant for large-scale fights, they would have to redesign the trait to have a more specific and intentional trigger conditional. But I'd rather they just keep it as is. I love the trait and find it incredibly fun to use. On the other hand, I think the trait is solidly meh for PvE. Since its inception, I've always thought it'd be cool if it caused your CC siills to have X% increased breakbar damage when under the effects of quickness to sorta mirror the trait's design intention. Or perhaps something like gaining a higher damage modifier from the Exposed effect.

 

 

 

Stability is usually the first thing to anytime there's a rip, besides Inspiring Reinforcement is one of the weakest stability in the game because it pulses.

[Amorimm.6732]

It works, it doesn't show on ArcDPS. You probably don't have quickness.

[Amorimm.6732]

On 9/1/2022 at 11:50 PM, Yasai.3549 said:

Stability is a stack based boon, up to 25. 
All Brutality does is remove 1 stack every 1 second as long as you are hitting an enemy while with Quickness. 

Normally, only CC capable attacks naturally remove a stack of Stability (as stability absorbs the CC and keeps the owner of the buff immune) 

Brutality used to be hella good though, with no internal cooldown. Revenants' favourite thing to do vs groups of enemies juiced up on Stability is turn on Impossible Odds, Phase Traversal in and Staff 5, deleting 25 stacks from everyone in 1 second. Ever since they added the Internal cooldown, it's not much worth using anymore since you are better off just using Mallyx to rip boons instead. 

This is just wrong btw.
It's a 1s interval, so this is 1 stack of stab removed, per player hit, every second. If you hit 20 people with Road, while you have Quickness, you remove 20 stacks of stab. Brutality is still an absolutely mandatory WvW trait if you actually have a good comp 🙂

[phokus.8934]

On 9/1/2022 at 10:20 AM, Yasai.3549 said:

Stability is a stack based boon, up to 25. 
All Brutality does is remove 1 stack every 1 second as long as you are hitting an enemy while with Quickness. 

Normally, only CC capable attacks naturally remove a stack of Stability (as stability absorbs the CC and keeps the owner of the buff immune) 

Brutality used to be hella good though, with no internal cooldown. Revenants' favourite thing to do vs groups of enemies juiced up on Stability is turn on Impossible Odds, Phase Traversal in and Staff 5, deleting 25 stacks from everyone in 1 second. Ever since they added the Internal cooldown, it's not much worth using anymore since you are better off just using Mallyx to rip boons instead. 

Yep, it used to be really good at stripping stability with the original IO.  Now it's not worth taking since the Feb 2018 patch.

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,
Just a reminder to keep it civil. I've removed some posts.
Regards.

[SWLDguitar.5746]

On 9/6/2022 at 2:46 AM, Amorimm.6732 said:

This is just wrong btw.
It's a 1s interval, so this is 1 stack of stab removed, per player hit, every second. If you hit 20 people with Road, while you have Quickness, you remove 20 stacks of stab. Brutality is still an absolutely mandatory WvW trait if you actually have a good comp 🙂

Targeted boon removal of a boon that is used to prevent cc.  Sounds like a win in wvw.

 

It is 1 sec interval per enemy hit.

 

Everything you said is 100% correct

[Santo.2419]

I don't think people are arguing that it doesn't remove stability somewhat well. It's just it does not remove it at a rate that really effects/counters the application of stab that is happening in a boon ball. 

 

Quickness uptime also being a problem in countering application speed. Especially when some skills are doing 5 stacks of stab per cast. I get that you can still argue that there is a benefit, which I can agree, but how much is the question. These variables of working in a comp'd grp with other strippers, or in a GvG environment could work for better strategies. But, I want to be able to use it when I'm trying to defend as a mess of pugs against a boonball taking objectives.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

2 hours ago, Santo.2419 said:

I don't think people are arguing that it doesn't remove stability somewhat well. It's just it does not remove it at a rate that really effects/counters the application of stab that is happening in a boon ball. 

 

Quickness uptime also being a problem in countering application speed. Especially when some skills are doing 5 stacks of stab per cast. I get that you can still argue that there is a benefit, which I can agree, but how much is the question. These variables of working in a comp'd grp with other strippers, or in a GvG environment could work for better strategies. But, I want to be able to use it when I'm trying to defend as a mess of pugs against a boonball taking objectives.

 

How would you balance it in that direction without making it completely broken? The problem is not with Brutality being weak (it's not) but with the reapplication rate of AoE stab being too high. I don't think it's very reasonable to expect the trait to have a massive impact on a boonball when you are playing as a pug and therefore not coordinating its usage with anyone. Removing the ICD or doubling the stack removal would make it far too oppressive in other aspects of the game(mode). I hate the boonball too and would like to be able to have a bigger impact as a random pug, but ANet has to be very prudent in how they handle boonrip skills that prioritize stability.

[Santo.2419]

On 9/30/2022 at 1:43 AM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

The problem is not with Brutality being weak (it's not) but with the reapplication rate of AoE stab being too high.

 

I believe that is exactly what I said, so we agree on that then.

EDIT* Re-reading my comment. I could see how you may of thought I wanted brutality buffed to match the application speed. I meant more in a general sense that with such fast application it becomes negligible.

On 9/30/2022 at 1:43 AM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

I don't think it's very reasonable to expect the trait to have a massive impact on a boonball when you are playing as a pug and therefore not coordinating its usage with anyone. Removing the ICD or doubling the stack removal would make it far too oppressive in other aspects of the game(mode). I hate the boonball too and would like to be able to have a bigger impact as a random pug, but ANet has to be very prudent in how they handle boonrip skills that prioritize stability.

 

I don't want a massive impact, but you will struggle to have an impact even on the stragglers before they make it back to the blob. As far as no coordination with others; when you are defending your keep there is generally a lot of pug cc being thrown at the blob. It's not an organized comp'd squad coordination level, but it should mimic to a lower level some effectiveness of the skill. But, as you say...this is definitely a tight rope for balancing, and it's not so much about buffing brutality, as it's about addressing the boon spam. But, with the latest patch nerfing mesmer rips...this direction they are taking just gets worse. 

 

P.S. I watched some of your YT's the other day, and they were a lot of fun. Great fights and builds, going to be trying ventari out more. 🙂

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Santo.2419