Pure OW PvE idea for legendary armor

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Just now, Woof.8246 said:

I don't see the problem .

Thankfully there are Guilds like Triple Trouble and Hardstuck that can organize , most hard events . The gold might be a little issue

I mean, yeah, sure.  but gold as an issue?  Even the aurene legendary weapons take a lot of gold or time to craft.

[Silent.6137]

11 minutes ago, Xerac.1542 said:

But some meta events take up to 20 minutes and I, as most people, am only able to play 10 minutes per week (usually streched across five or three play sessions)

You don't really mean 10 minutes per week (or 2 minutes per day), right? Most people that log in daily will play at least a couple of hours, I would think.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Xerac.1542]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

You don't really mean 10 minutes per week (or 2 minutes per day), right? Most people that log in daily will play at least a couple of hours, I would think.

I meant what I wrote. 

That's why the new legendary armor should be something I am able to tackle and chip away at during my play sessions, without having to align my life around some timers and stuff like a job. 

Additionally, in response to some other suggestions, I don't think living wolrd stuff should be included in the requirements for the armor, since hiding that behind some pay wall could scare off players. Actually simply focusing on core tyria open world content (ideally < 2 min per task) would be the best way. I think many players feel this way. 

[Wolfshade.9251]

Pressing 111 to give a dragon pedicure 900 times isn't really that legendary.

[vares.8457]

Open World legendary armor would hurt the game immensely. It would devalue legendary gear, take away motivation to play the real endgame and only divide the community even further. You can see in this thread how much backlash it receives. 

[mercury ranique.2170]

I'm actually against having all skins available for all formats. An exclusive skin should be exclusive by design.  Having more formats available diminishes the value.

The reason certain changes have been made in the past is cause rewards for e.g. PvP and WvW where lacking. So PvE only awards where added. but this should not automatically work the other way around.

Ow and raids are also a type of PvE

[Einsof.1457]

On 9/13/2022 at 10:42 AM, Silent.6137 said:

(I somehow nested my replies within 2 quotes)

--------

Again, I stress that I have all my legendary armors but is not against a different way to obtain them. It will not affect me one way or another if it gets implemented or not but I do want the game to be inclusive. Thus, my interest in this topic.

If there's an Openworld Legendary route, the amount of effort to obtain them should be so legendary that the other methods might seem like a better way to grind for them:

• Map explorations in all zones - Revisit every single PoI, WP, Hearts, Vista, HP challenges, etc., for each map for each armor item - that's 6 complete map completions for a full set.
• Engage all world bosses and every single meta a set number of times each. This will include all the instanced meta such as Twisted Marionette, Dragonstorm and all normal mode Strikes. And yes, all EoD meta as well.
• Materials required should be as grindy, if not more so, including the 4 time-gated materials: Lump of mithrillium, Spool of Elonian Cord, Spool of Silk Weaving and Glob of Spirit Residue. Of course, the items needed will also include clovers, etc.
• Obtain certain amounts of all map currencies.
• Doing a number of the easier Jumping Puzzles without skipping to obtain certain tokens.

The list above is of course not exhaustive. Maybe add in a few quests. Make Open World Legendary Armor truly define the word Legendary.

EDIT: Perhaps 6 full map completions is too much. Maybe just 1 Full map completions to start the journey: Every single map available needs to be revisited before you can pursue this route.

I think 30000 achievement points as well. Have the 30000 point chest award part of a necessary collection.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Einsof.1457

[Caliboom.3218]

2 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

Open World legendary armor would hurt the game immensely. It would devalue legendary gear, take away motivation to play the real endgame and only divide the community even further. You can see in this thread how much backlash it receives. 

Divide the community how? And devalue it how? And people here have given multiple suggestions on how to make the legendary armor time-consuming, expensive, and not effortless, so it could still be rare. But for some reason a lot of posters here think that OW players just want to 11111 to get the armor even though there have been multiple posts with ideas that would prevent exactly that. None of said ideas got actual counter-arguments because these people seem to think all OW players are lazy or whatever.

[The Boz.2038]

2 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

time-consuming, expensive, and not effortless

Flatness is the issue. There is no upward driver or mechanical skill inducing process involved. 
Elimination of any aspirational component from the final piece that has any, is an issue.

[Caliboom.3218]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Flatness is the issue. There is no upward driver or mechanical skill inducing process involved. 
Elimination of any aspirational component from the final piece that has any, is an issue.

If you're referring to difficulty, then there's not much in the WvW and PvP armors. The raid armor set has it, but not the other two.

[The Boz.2038]

6 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

If you're referring to difficulty, then there's not much in the WvW and PvP armors. The raid armor set has it, but not the other two.

I am very obviously not.

I am referring to the "if you want to get this reward, do engage with this content, which is pretty much the embodied vision of what team content in this game should look like". It is, by its very existence, a funnel towards the higher end PvE content.

[Caliboom.3218]

5 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I am very obviously not.

I am referring to the "if you want to get this reward, do engage with this content, which is pretty much the embodied vision of what team content in this game should look like". It is, by its very existence, a funnel towards the higher end PvE content.

True, but OW armor could be an incentive to do LW and expansion metas, a lot of which are not very active. It would encourage people to engage with older content. People have already been shown to not want to engage with raids/strikes no matter the incentive, so the raid armor set doesn't really accomplish getting players into raids.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Caliboom.3218

[The Boz.2038]

4 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

True, but OW armor could be an incentive to do LW and expansion metas

The suggestions in this thread so far have explicitly stated "core only, no metas that take over 20 minutes to complete".

5 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

People have already been shown to not want to engage with raids/strikes no matter the incentive

Untrue, and I can't even begin to fathom how you'd come to this conclusion. Personal experience says opposite.

[Caliboom.3218]

Just now, The Boz.2038 said:

The suggestions in this thread so far have explicitly stated "core only, no metas that take over 20 minutes to complete".

Untrue, and I can't even begin to fathom how you'd come to this conclusion. Personal experience says opposite.

In my opinion, making it core only would make it too easy and quick to obtain. But there have been suggestions earlier that include expansions to get the armor, and I agree with these, the armor set should include expansions to make it truly legendary. And I'm pretty sure most OW players don't want to interact with raids, sure there's a few cases where they do, but I would say 95% of them don't want to.

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Woof.8246 said:

This not exactly true , because we already have 3 variations of Legendary Weapons and i believe more will come .

People love to collect cool stuff , either that have  a simple skin or have stats on it . For example "yone" have already the other sets from other modes .

We could create some Legendary Weapon in Raids/WvW for example , next time .

If our worries , is that there won't be a reason to hunt  new stats in the future , then either we follow the currently format were every stat  is  unlocked from the getgo  , or simply all Legendary Gear won't automatically unlock the new expansion's stats , but you must do events >> craft insignia>> apply to Gear>>unlocks permanently).

Legendary Gear is different from simply Skin and we demand whatever time/cost needed , while in the same time there won;t be a need to give more monetary rewards and effect the economy (see Decade Armor)

You keep repeating people love to collect stuff, but based on your posts in this thread I don't see you jumping in to collect current leggy armor skins? 🙄

10 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

But if all I'm able to do is complete the wood chest/week, that time to get enough claim tickets is 1+ year.

Sounds like the long term goal you wanted to have?

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

True, but OW armor could be an incentive to do LW and expansion metas, a lot of which are not very active.

Which ones are not very active? Because from my experience most of them easly still are. And LW3/4/5 have leggy trinkets bound to them already with one being more or less a handout (considering the release dates, imo at least partially to promote armory). So... "just more more more" ad nauseam?

Edited September 15, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Caliboom.3218]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Which ones are not very active? Because from my experience a lot of them still are. And LW3/4/5 have leggy trinkets bound to them already. So... "just more more more" ad nauseam?

For example, people don't do PoF metas outside of the Pinata. And Verdant Break meta rarely reaches 100% completion. I'm sure there are other metas but I can't really be bothered to check right now.

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello again!
Yet another reminder to keep it civil. I've removed some posts.
Regards.

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

For example, people don't do PoF metas outside of the Pinata. And Verdant Break meta rarely reaches 100% completion. I'm sure there are other metas but I can't really be bothered to check right now.

Meta not reaching 100% isn't the equivalent of it not being played. People wanting 100% meta completion can (and from what I saw do) still do it by creating the squad earlier to get enough players with the similar goal.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Xerac.1542]

Sadly, it looks like some posts got deleted, probably for the best. 

One detective did a great job on uncovering my mischievous plan of pulling this argumentation into the absurd.

People actually taking some of the stuff serious is neither here nor there though

_________________________________________________________________________________

Dead serious now and no more joking

I got my armor, my accessories, my fun. 

I also think putting in another option of legendary armor is fine (even though it might screw the market for exotics) 

As far as I remember the skyscale collection is OW only and does not actually require grouping of any sort, takes some dedication, effort and time. This could be a great starting point on how an OW armor could be implemented.

- Make every piece require a collection(s) similar to the path of getting skyscale but without repetition. Head gear needs different        stuff than chest and so on....make it a journey across Tyria.  

- Could include: JP's, Story achievements, Meta Progress, Collections of skins/items, Communing with Hero Points

- Shouldn't include: Raids, Strikes, DRM's, Dungeons, Fractals, WvW, PvP

Why not dungeons and strikes? Well, strikes already award LI and are used for the readily available armors, Dungeons and DRM's would require grouping and coordination and the same amount of time invested as a raid clear. Yes, we all have been in dungeons that simply took 40 mins because the group died or got lost or simply did not know what to do at the boss (AC p2, CoE pillar boss, Arah either lupi or endboss just to name some)

- The recipe should equate to the same material and gold cost as the other armor, be it WvW, PvP or the PvE armor that needs LI.

Big plus and I am still 100% in the boat for that in any way: 

Make it a nice skin. Make the precursor look dope and the legendary even more. I want another animated skinline. Maybe even give it a dragon theme and market it like the Gen3 legendary weapons and make people work for different themed skins.

 

_________________________________________________________________________________

Honest words: Idc whether there is another path to leggy armor or not, In the end we will be back here with complaints about it being too hard, too easy, too long, including some content somebody does not enjoy or whatever, people will never be happy. 

TL;DR: Did a bamboozle, now being serious

Edited September 15, 2022 by Xerac.1542

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

8 minutes ago, Xerac.1542 said:

Sadly, it looks like some posts got deleted, probably for the best. 

One detective did a great job on uncovering my mischievous plan of pulling this argumentation into the absurd.

People actually taking some of the stuff serious is neither here nor there though

_________________________________________________________________________________

Dead serious now and no more joking

I got my armor, my accessories, my fun. 

I also think putting in another option of legendary armor is fine (even though it might screw the market for exotics) 

As far as I remember the skyscale collection is OW only and does not actually require grouping of any sort, takes some dedication, effort and time. This could be a great starting point on how an OW armor could be implemented.

- Make every piece require a collection(s) similar to the path of getting skyscale but without repetition. Head gear needs different        stuff than chest and so on....make it a journey across Tyria.  

- Could include: JP's, Story achievements, Meta Progress, Collections of skins/items, Communing with Hero Points

- Shouldn't include: Raids, Strikes, DRM's, Dungeons, Fractals, WvW, PvP

Why not dungeons and strikes? Well, strikes already award LI and are used for the readily available armors, Dungeons and DRM's would require grouping and coordination and the same amount of time invested as a raid clear. Yes, we all have been in dungeons that simply took 40 mins because the group died or got lost or simply did not know what to do at the boss (AC p2, CoE pillar boss, Arah either lupi or endboss just to name some)

- The recipe should equate to the same material and gold cost as the other armor, be it WvW, PvP or the PvE armor that needs LI.

Big plus and I am still 100% in the boat for that in any way: 

Make it a nice skin. Make the precursor look dope and the legendary even more. I want another animated skinline. Maybe even give it a dragon theme and market it like the Gen3 legendary weapons and make people work for different themed skins.

 

_________________________________________________________________________________

Honest words: Idc whether there is another path to leggy armor or not, In the end we will be back here with complaints about it being too hard, too easy, too long, including some content somebody does not enjoy or whatever, people will never be happy. 

TL;DR: Did a bamboozle, now being serious

Great post.  Weirdly the only point I disagree on is the line on DRMs needing coordination.  They're actually one of the only bits of instanced content specifically designed to be soloed, so no objection to them being included (apart from the fact they're really dull).  The tokens come from Dragonstorm too, so might be a currency to consider.

 

I think someone mentioned the idea of using old meta achieves.  I'd personally love this.  Not just because it would respect player time already invested, but also because there is a ton of PoF stuff that I simply haven't had any reason to touch, and locking the collections behind completing the meta stuff first (at least most of it, if Migraine from HoT is included, we'll wind up back here 🙂 ) might actually add a bit of prestige because it really does show you've played the Open World in full.

[Sobx.1758]

13 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Great post.  Weirdly the only point I disagree on is the line on DRMs needing coordination.  They're actually one of the only bits of instanced content specifically designed to be soloed, so no objection to them being included (apart from the fact they're really dull).  The tokens come from Dragonstorm too, so might be a currency to consider.

 

I think someone mentioned the idea of using old meta achieves.  I'd personally love this.  Not just because it would respect player time already invested, but also because there is a ton of PoF stuff that I simply haven't had any reason to touch, and locking the collections behind completing the meta stuff first (at least most of it, if Migraine from HoT is included, we'll wind up back here 🙂 ) might actually add a bit of prestige because it really does show you've played the Open World in full.

So now it's just throwing more rewards into already existing achievements which already have their own rewards. At least the predicted direction of "give me more no matter what" is consistent. 🙄

Ah no, sorry. "Give me more no matter what" is not how we call it here, it's "respecting player's time", that sure sounds better 😄

Edited September 15, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

So now it's just throwing more rewards into already existing achievements which already have their own rewards. At least the predicted direction of "give me more no matter what" is consistent. 🙄

The rewards in those achievements aren't very good.  Specifically the expansion metas tend to give ascended trinkets, which are useless if you have legendaries (which is more likely to be the case for people who went to the effort to complete the expansion metas).

 

Besides, I specifically said that those metas would be cool as a way to unlock the collections.  Not to gift more rewards.

 

How about you drop the strawman personal attacks, and actually try to contribute positively to the discussion?  Your determination to paint everyone who supports this idea as lazy and/or greedy is really wearing thin.

[kharmin.7683]

Just now, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

The rewards in those achievements aren't very good.  Specifically the expansion metas tend to give ascended trinkets, which are useless if you have legendaries (which is more likely to be the case for people who went to the effort to complete the expansion metas).

 

 

But not useless for players who don't have legendaries.

[Bear.9568]

@CrashTestAuto.9108

 

You don't want to PvP or WvW or Raid to get legendary armor.

 

My question is why do you need it? Literally open world builds are status quo, they don't change.

 

Legendary gear is for those who play different content so we can swap builds depending on roles. It's not for casuals who spam 1111111 on world bosses. You can do that with exotic gear and reap the same rewards.

 

My advice is to play the game, stop suggesting top tier rewards be nerfed to casual level. Earn it just like the rest of us have and you'll be a better player and make some friends along the way.