October 4 Balance Update Preview

[Myror.7521]

@Sartharina.3542 gues they done this in favor of pvp. Cause Berserker mode activate could get cced in its current stade. But well i see the point that it might be complete off meta in pve instanced Group content now. Only condi Berserker might be better now but i gues we need to see first xd.

[xXxNikiGoesWildxXx.3678]

I think warrior and druid deserved all this love, but i also think it is overkill with number of buffs.... look at pink class....nothing.... also you needed to tone down specter condi spam and bladesworn damage/sustain. This patch will just create more broken builds instead of balance, hope you are aware of what you did there. 

[Wounder.7526]

Reactive Lenses is most useful for its stunbreak, not its blind immunity or new cleanse, so please make it trigger the moment you click to cast a healing spell rather than after the healing spell has resolved. In other words, have it turn the healing spell into a stunbreak button. 

[Maytal.2396]

Been playing with the vindicator for awhile it's a great support class most people I see don't know how to use it. I been running in mag groups I have to say I been getting alot of whispers asking how I can do what I do with the vindicator but I studied it sense I saw it was comming out this is going to be a very interesting opportunity for me 🙂

[Myror.7521]

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 well when it comes to bladesworn. This one will now be basicly free food since no stability anymore while been self rooted. On mes so a straigth buff to virtu and chrono by get them distortion back is nothing to you? Well to me it is like a "welcome to virtu perma block/invu era" call xD

[Convet.2605]

Issue of dragon trigger charge ending prematurly when charging it under water is still an issue. Most common when fighting boss in aquatic ruins 🙄  

[Convet.2605]

Sundering mace and rousing reslieience. Is something going to replace them? Says they are removed but I am confused as there is no new trait introduction?

[Skullsox.9162]

So is thief like a true preview cause....what did they do to it besides nerf deadeye after finally being viable?

[Sourde Noire.5286]

I'd reiterate on "no tradeoffs" being a bad idea. There MUST be tradeoffs if you use an Elite Spec that gains something, for balancing of the other specs and core class alone.

 

Upcoming mech nerfs for Mechanist are needed but really they don't fix the underlying problem. That a pet was given to a non-pet class. The same reason (core) Ranger has been suffering for so many years was that the pet is considered part of the inherent class damage, so the player damage was shafted. Soulbeast was doing quite well - in the situations where you merge with pet and just use it as passive buff to increase your own damage.

 

Tack on a pet to a non-pet class, suddenly that spec WILL outperform the others simply because you get an additional source of balancing and damage on top with no tradeoff. Nerf the mech too much then what's the point if playing the spec.

 

Berserker changes I can see the reasoning for in PvP, the slow buildup can hurt you. But now it's just core Warrior PLUS better skills. Instead give Warrior some better Adrenaline management skills (i.e. gain Adrenaline in interrupt) that reward skillful play.

 

This just feels like the easy / lazy approach to balancing. Make everything the same baseline, then tweak a few numbers in Elite Spec traits and turn them into EoD spec traits (+25% damage, +25% condi damage, +5s boon duration). With HoT and PoF specs you often had meaningful choices between traits, arguably some were better in one situation, others in another and even then it would come down to your preference in playstyle.

 

Elite Specs NEED tradeoffs to be balanced properly. Mechanist should get a damage reduction via stats to make up for a Mech being there now to pick up the slack and keep the Mech itself as a decent source of damage. Or double down on Mechanist being a support and keep the support skills on the Mech while toning down Mechanist damage.

Berserker gets a reduction in sustain to make up for their crazy burst potential (and if that isn't in line, tweak those numbers).

Dragonhunters gain mobility and personal combat prowess at the expense of group support, Firebrand should be the opposite.

Daredevil gains enormous cleave and mobility and should pay for it with Stealth (all Stealth sources  gain -1s duration for the spec).

Reaper should be the melee powerhouse, Scourge the support and Harbinger the condi DPS spec.

 

Decide on a vision for a spec and make sure it works up to this. Don't make all specs the same and throw some numbers around to see what sticks.

 

I'd be fine if we don't get more Elite specs with upcoming expansions too. This seems part of the problem. With an evergrowing list of specs, how CAN you balance them all without streamlining everything to the point where it becomes meaningless flavour. Or add new specs to double on a role for flavour, add another Necro spec that serves as melee powerhouse so you can decide between Reaper and that one. Just make sure you know what you want a spec to do BEFORE designing it and then make sure the skills and traits complement this.

PowerDPS can then choose between maximum selfish damage, damage with some sort of debuff or personal boon uptime so you can adapt based on situation and group. Condi dps can do the same. Support can can choose between healing/barrier, boon support or either with some additional bonuses or debuffs to help the group with the enemy. This will come with inherent tradeoffs, DPS cant do support, support cant be good at dealing damage.

 

 

[Malus.2184]

I've been thinking about this since last night and a lot of these changes are from my pov unneeded and will do nothing to the actual balance. Instead of removing the problem they'll just lessen the problem, the problem is still there, it has just changed, which means that eventually it'll become a big problem again.

In order to actually solve this issue on a systemic level there needs to be a natural grace period on pretty much every boon before people can be affected by it again. Just gained Quickness? There's now grace period before you can get Quickness again.

This would solve the issue where it really matters, small-scale and it would completely shatter the Boon-Ball zerg-meta as people would no longer be able to throw boons around constantly and actually had to think over when to use them.

Even ignoring that some of the changes are incredibly hamfisted to target some things and will have massive consequences for everthing ewlse. I'm here talking about the Scrapper. 

In order to curb the Sneak Gyro a blanket change has been applied that'll completely ruin the functionality of the Scrapper. A great thing of the Scrapper is that you're unable to escape certain things and that also shows in the execution of the Blast Gyro. You can only escape the effect with a Dodge so you get a long warning before it goes off so you can prepare fo rit. With the changes a 5 second priming is in a PvP-environment an eternity and people can just walk out of it.

Shredder Gyro will be useless in small-scale PvP-environments since people can just walk out of it. And both Barrier and Purging Gyro will only have an effect if the Scrapper stays in them, which locks them down to using range since an opposing player can completely negate them merely by walking out of the effect. If the Scrapper only has a Hammer then they have to follow, in which case the effect is also lost on them.

I could see the benefit of the offensive ones being ground-targeted if they were big enough to force people to move substantially, however, even with the trait that enlarges their area of effect they remain small.

Yes, Sneak Gyro is an issue, howewer the way that has been nerfed makes it utterly useless. One thing is making it stationary so people are unable to get constantly renewed stealth, however, the individual ticks are so short that once people leave the field unless they stood in it for the duration it's going to vanish instantly. If no systemic change is being made then adjust he number of pulses on the Sneak Gyro and the duration f the Stealth.

This is just taking a hammer to the Scrapper without understanding the context of the other skills that are collaterally affected by this hammer strike.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Ghost Industries.4278]

If you wanted to delete the healing Scrapper, why not just say it.

 

4 more wells, no quickness, increased CDs to the entire rotation. Added precious seconds to every single cast we make and now made it harder to cast the rest. Eshh

Edited September 17, 2022 by Ghost Industries.4278

[BoxHat.1824]

If we're undoing the elite spec tradeoff changes can we please get 1200 range back on daredevil steal. 'Tradeoff' was the original given reason why it was dropped to 600

That is all

[Orabusu.6085]

@Double Tap

Deadly Aim (trait) in critical strikes says hello in beign a trait with a negative trade off when slotted. When will we see a buff to P/P load out for theif(Love the loadout on paper with ranged dps that can move and shot without beign locked in one place, flying around the emeny or looking constantly for the emenys backside but not much ingame with the lowdmg and other superior loadouts that makes it bad choice) and fix to the long attackspeed of pistol 1 for the engineer pistol? It says ingame that Fragmention shot have an attackspeed of 1/2 second but it has an actavation time of 0.8275s which is 0.3275s more then the tooltip on the skill and dont forget the aftercast of Fragmentionshot makes it do 1.2086 attacks per second instead of 2 attacks per second by reading the tooltip!

About the Eternal Bond grandmaster trait effect of beign able to switch pets while melded, would like to see it a core thing for Soulbeast then seeing it beign hidden behind a trait when you are also taking away triggering of petswapping traits. Feels like like its need to be incoperated so its dont become a stealth nerf to soulbeast dmg potential.

Please dont make he scrapper gyros groundtarget wells

Edited September 17, 2022 by Orabusu.6085

[baseendje.8452]

After killing flametrower scrapper, now also quickness scrapper will be killed.. Are there even any viable scrapper pvp builds left? --> nope 😪

[Kolzi.5928]

I'm very happy to see the arbitrary limitations put onto elite specs get removed, especially having distort back for chronomancer. I actually am a bit surprised to see virtuoso get distort as well, I thought it made more sense that virtuoso lost it... but I am not complaining. Was daredevil just overlooked in this pass? Swipe replacing steal feels pretty random and pointless.

 

I do not like the scrapper changes. I hope you consider finding another way to balance the spec. At the very least, I am not sure how a stationary sneak gyro is supposed to work... I guess it's just a copy of shadow refuge? Ugh.

 

Overall though, the patch looks great from a pve perspective (though I understand that's not the focus), hopefully you revisit the scrapper stuff so it can be amazing.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Kolzi.5928

[FreshF.5793]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

Defense Field: This skill is now ground targeted. The spell area of effect created by this skill is now stationary.

I must say this is a skill, that must NOT need to be stationary (unless you want to nerv it).

It is great for protecting allies from projectiles.

Making it stationary actually makes it less useful and versatile, since it would only make sense in a couple of fights where you dont have to move (mostly instanced content with stationary bosses). 

Especially in PvP and WvW it would make no sense at all.

 

If you want it to be stationary, at least let it work the same way as the ventari tablet.

 

But i think you should just leave it as it is. Scrapper is not overpowered in any of the gamemodes (my opinion).

[Zyreva.1078]

Nerfs to boon removal for large scale and absolutely zero consideration for small scale in WvW? Exactly that type of joke i expected. But hey, at least i will be able to abuse broken soulbeast - while it lasts ...

14 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Also I fully expect Soulbeast to hit 40k+ benchmark in PvE after these changes.

I could be wrong, but i doubt those changes will affect PvE much if at all, because you have to give up 10% dmg in oder to pet swap while merged (and you never want to unmerge to swap) and i don't think a few extra beast skills would make up for that, they don't deal much dmg.

PvP and WvW on the other hand ...

Edited September 17, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Heisen.2315]

Great, I've been asking for Signet of Rage buffs for years. Reducing the cast time is a good step in the right direction however I still believe it should be 25 stacks of Might instead of 20 stacks and maybe some Quickness? It is an elite skill after all with a pretty hefty cooldown alternatively let us still have the Adrenaline Passive even after activation.

[Kolzi.5928]

1 hour ago, Sourde Noire.5286 said:

I'd reiterate on "no tradeoffs" being a bad idea. There MUST be tradeoffs if you use an Elite Spec that gains something, for balancing of the other specs and core class alone.

 

The trade-offs weren't really achieving anything balance-wise though. All they were doing is making certain elite specs feel worse to play.

 

Making core specs viable would be nice, but it shouldn't come at the cost of ruining how an elite spec feels, and those trade-offs weren't even making core specs viable anyway.

 

In my opinion, the attempts to balance this should be made through powerful core traitlines, so that giving up a third one is a significant loss. Yes, that will be difficult to pull off... but even if they fail at that, it'll be better than how things were before, with the arbitrary restrictions being forced onto elite specs.

[Avatara.1042]

Catalyst Traits are still absolute unfun trash, and the playstyle arthritis inducing.  Could you at least make the PvE and WvW Catalyst not completely different specs?

[Avatara.1042]

Gale Song And Arcane Shielding changes are also horrendous, and demonstrate zero understanding of Elementalists and their elite skills.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Avatara.1042

[Celeste.9135]

The Scrapper Gyro rework is just unacceptable, find a way to nerf the build in WvW that doesn't ruin the spec in PVE. 

[Wave.7035]

15 hours ago, Chaos.9270 said:

Because Guardian is already OP and don't need to get more improved.

Guardian in PvP isn’t OP. I’m not sure if you’re just some PvE player or WvW only kid or just don’t know the V key exists but that’s irrelevant. 

 

Willbender was over nerfed. Reducing the damage on Sword 5 made sense. It’s an opener and a mobility skill. Reducing damage on f1 and Sword 4 didn’t make sense given Willbenders already weak sustain and then the removal of a charge of f2 all of which was done in pvp only. 
 

Firebrand is literally useless in all PvP game modes atm. It does too little damage to make it valuable in any comp. And can’t support enough to make it a valuable support. The only viable guardian support atm is core and it’s currently imo just barely competitive with tempest after the buffs. 
 

Dragonhunter is a one trick atm. It still relies heavily on trapper runes to compensate for its lack of sustain. It’s damage is entirely based around 1 trait and spear of Justice. Nerf any of those and Dragonhunter is dead and regardless it’s not great in PvP atm. 
 

So if you play Guardian in PvP atm you are forced to play core support and pray your dps pugs have brains which they usually don’t. 
 

They need to roll back a few of the nerfs on Willbender. The lack of sustain is only an issue because of the dmg nerfs. I’m thinking we’ll see that with the November patch in some form. I’m guessing because of previous nerfs to guardian and being overturned in the past the balance team probably want to look into it closer to make sure they don’t over-tune it.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Krista.4931

[Neisan.3594]

16 hours ago, Stadsport.8714 said:

Very excited about the changes to Warrior. I think the Berserk mode extension reductions in PvP are a *little* harsh but I'm mostly in PvE anyway, so I'm not a good authority on it. Happy to see Warrior mains finally getting some love!

So they force warriors to try different stuff with their kit, which we do, and then they'll nerf it into hell again. I'm already missing my weeaboon.

[Wave.7035]

12 minutes ago, Neisan.3594 said:

So they force warriors to try different stuff with their kit, which we do, and then they'll nerf it into hell again. I'm already missing my weeaboon.

Some of those power coefficient buffs for Berserker are insane. I think it’s less they’re nerfing and more a buff with a slight shift in play style. You’ll hit harder with most skills but you won’t be able to stay in zerk mode so instead of old berserker (pre PoF) where it was just endless pressure you’ll be forced to use more of a burst so you have to actually plan and think a bit. It also looks like a nice buff for SPB and a good nerf for Bladesworn which was insanely broken. No class should have that much dmg, cc and sustain. Now it has the dmg and cc with less sustain. 👌🏻👌🏻

Edited September 17, 2022 by Krista.4931
Clarification