Character Adventure Guide Frustrating for Co-Op

[Jyenh.5739]

Context: So my wife and I have been playing GW2 together for about a year. I've been playing since launch, and introduced her to the game. We started playing before the update, and then had a break while we planned and had our wedding. Now we've come back and played post-adventure guide update, and after playing a short while I get bombarded with achievements boosting my character 6 levels ahead of my wife. This is because the achievements award exp for using things like utility skills, class mechanics, dodging, etc....all of which experienced players do naturally which boosted me well and truly passed her. I wouldn't normally encourage new players to look at the achievement system, but I had to to try and catch my wife up with some easy achievements, and so she spent a tedious amount of time solo-ing repeatable content to catch up.

This made me realise that GW2 has become less new-player, and less co-op friendly. Not just for experienced players vs new players however, as it also changes based on class. One example, engineers have way more profession mechanics and can knock 5 uses out in a single combat. Ranger? longer cooldowns, and only 1 ability. This may not be a problem when starting fresh, but it was returning post-patch. There are also classes that have far more dodging embedded into attacks, or that require more dodging than others.

We really lost enthusiasm and are fretting over the time when I start getting another block of xp from the achievements.

Can anyone suggest a way around this? Or has anyone else experienced similar frustrations? 

[Serynna.3786]

I tend to play solo and I've been in GW2 for something like 6 years, so rapid levelling isn't an issue for me because I know the game and the mechanics for each class. What does concern me, however, is that new players will level so quickly that they don't have a chance to learn the game and, perhaps more importantly, how to play their chosen class properly. They will then find themselves with a high or max level character, facing tough enemies (especially if they play in HoT) and will be unable to defeat them. This may frustrate them to the point where they quit the game. Someone once said to me that the levelling from 1 to 80 is like a tutorial and there is some truth in that. Levelling too fast could mean that new players don't have a chance to learn.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

19 minutes ago, Jyenh.5739 said:

Context: So my wife and I have been playing GW2 together for about a year. I've been playing since launch, and introduced her to the game. We started playing before the update, and then had a break while we planned and had our wedding. Now we've come back and played post-adventure guide update, and after playing a short while I get bombarded with achievements boosting my character 6 levels ahead of my wife. This is because the achievements award exp for using things like utility skills, class mechanics, dodging, etc....all of which experienced players do naturally which boosted me well and truly passed her. I wouldn't normally encourage new players to look at the achievement system, but I had to to try and catch my wife up with some easy achievements, and so she spent a tedious amount of time solo-ing repeatable content to catch up.

This made me realise that GW2 has become less new-player, and less co-op friendly. Not just for experienced players vs new players however, as it also changes based on class. One example, engineers have way more profession mechanics and can knock 5 uses out in a single combat. Ranger? longer cooldowns, and only 1 ability. This may not be a problem when starting fresh, but it was returning post-patch. There are also classes that have far more dodging embedded into attacks, or that require more dodging than others.

We really lost enthusiasm and are fretting over the time when I start getting another block of xp from the achievements.

Can anyone suggest a way around this? Or has anyone else experienced similar frustrations? 

Its not a problem, the game automatically downlevels you to the area you're in, so as long as you don't leave the areas she plays in, you'll be fine unless the difference is like 30+ levels. Though you may want to avoid making optimal builds and stuff like that if you're playing with someone who doesn't know how.

 

But yeah, she doesn't need to "catch up", and you'll be kept at the same level as her (more or less) by the downlevelling mechanic provided you don't leave those zones. In fact she'll get more XP than you the longer you stay in low-level areas since you're overlevelled.

 

You only have to worry about level differences in this game when they're extreme, and honestly nothing below 80 really matters anyway, so just have fun and don't stress about it.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Jyenh.5739]

15 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Its not a problem, the game automatically downlevels you to the area you're in, so as long as you don't leave the areas she plays in, you'll be fine unless the difference is like 30+ levels. Though you may want to avoid making optimal builds and stuff like that if you're playing with someone who doesn't know how.

 

But yeah, she doesn't need to "catch up", and you'll be kept at the same level as her (more or less) by the downlevelling mechanic provided you don't leave those zones. In fact she'll get more XP than you the longer you stay in low-level areas since you're overlevelled.

 

You only have to worry about level differences in this game when they're extreme, and honestly nothing below 80 really matters anyway, so just have fun and don't stress about it.

 

I get what you mean, it's not so much that we can't play together with level disparity, it's more the frustration of not being able to teach as we play as effectively (I can't model how certain things like traits work on my character before she does hers), the emotional impact of the person you're playing with being levels ahead of you, and the frustration of a new player jumping 4 levels at once and trying to figure out what traits and elite skills and all that is at once.

There's other things that are locked to levels, such as personal story which we are doing together (same one)

As Seryanna said, the levelling can be very fast, and very different compared to when I learnt the game. It's very overwhelming when it unlocks a bunch of stuff at once (which it did for her as well, just not as severely) and expects you to know how to do it all without instruction. This just might be me being salty about losing the "learning weapon skills" feature during vanilla though.

 As for she will eventually catch up, I was already pulling ahead due to extra xp gained from gathering/reviving, and the veteran player buffs through masteries that give extra xp, so this just exacerbated the issue.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

2 hours ago, Jyenh.5739 said:

 

I get what you mean, it's not so much that we can't play together with level disparity, it's more the frustration of not being able to teach as we play as effectively (I can't model how certain things like traits work on my character before she does hers), the emotional impact of the person you're playing with being levels ahead of you, and the frustration of a new player jumping 4 levels at once and trying to figure out what traits and elite skills and all that is at once.

There's other things that are locked to levels, such as personal story which we are doing together (same one)

As Seryanna said, the levelling can be very fast, and very different compared to when I learnt the game. It's very overwhelming when it unlocks a bunch of stuff at once (which it did for her as well, just not as severely) and expects you to know how to do it all without instruction. This just might be me being salty about losing the "learning weapon skills" feature during vanilla though.

 As for she will eventually catch up, I was already pulling ahead due to extra xp gained from gathering/reviving, and the veteran player buffs through masteries that give extra xp, so this just exacerbated the issue.

The alternative solution is to stack XP boosters. There's many different ways to increase XP gain, but the most obvious is the 30min booster from the Laurel merchant for 1 Laurel each.

 

Perhaps the devs should implement some kind of "party levelling" mechanic like other games.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Sarius.9285]

4 hours ago, Jyenh.5739 said:

solo-ing repeatable content to catch up.

I mean you could have helped her

[Sobx.1758]

Yup, still think there should be an option to opt out of these.

[Jyenh.5739]

4 hours ago, Sarius.9285 said:

I mean you could have helped her

If I did then I'd still be levelling and she wouldn't catch up?
I helped her in-person though, but that wouldn't be possible if it was anyone else other than someone you live with.

[Aelin.9317]

9 hours ago, Jyenh.5739 said:

 

I get what you mean, it's not so much that we can't play together with level disparity, it's more the frustration of not being able to teach as we play as effectively (I can't model how certain things like traits work on my character before she does hers), the emotional impact of the person you're playing with being levels ahead of you, and the frustration of a new player jumping 4 levels at once and trying to figure out what traits and elite skills and all that is at once.

There's other things that are locked to levels, such as personal story which we are doing together (same one)

As Seryanna said, the levelling can be very fast, and very different compared to when I learnt the game. It's very overwhelming when it unlocks a bunch of stuff at once (which it did for her as well, just not as severely) and expects you to know how to do it all without instruction. This just might be me being salty about losing the "learning weapon skills" feature during vanilla though.

 As for she will eventually catch up, I was already pulling ahead due to extra xp gained from gathering/reviving, and the veteran player buffs through masteries that give extra xp, so this just exacerbated the issue.

Mm if you would really like to keep your progression the same how about making another account while you go through the core game? I see a lot of people on these forums mentioning having multiple accounts. 

This way you know you will level at the same time and achievements, masteries etc will be less of an issue. Ofc you would need to put in a little extra time to catch this new character up but after that it might be better for you?

And once you are 80 you can go back to main account ^^

[Chyro.1462]

I don't really see an issue. Level is irrelevant for the most part. Sure it makes it easier to give advice when you see the same things as the other player as both chars progress. But you can just start up a fresh char and keep it near their level. Otherwise can always just tag along with one of your main chars to avoid 'over leveling' if your low char is getting too far ahead. But largely it doesn't matter if you're along with a lv30 or lv80 char. Only thing I'm careful about when playing on a fully levled / geared char when around a newer player is that I try to hold back on doing damage and not just melt anything in sight.

Also nobody 'has to' fill out their adventurer's guide. It's just there and gives exp when you clear steps, but can also just ignore it and play as you would without it. It fills out eventually either way.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Chyro.1462

[Healix.5819]

5 hours ago, Jyenh.5739 said:

If I did then I'd still be levelling and she wouldn't catch up?

Not if the problem was caused by you doing the achievements and not her. If you had her grind experience on her own to catch up, she'll end up ahead if she completes them, or if she doesn't complete them, you're only going to repeat this cycle.

If there are other problems, such as you get more XP due to veteran accounts bonuses, then you should simply skip doing vistas or something.

If you don't want to do the adventure guide, don't do any crafting and you'll get stuck on volume 2.

 

[Jyenh.5739]

I think I should clarify context. I'm not coming from a position of playing the game for a long time, and popping in now-and-then to play with another person. My position is playing through the entirety of the campaigns start to finish with another player, on fresh characters. Out-levelling due to the achievements has DEFINITELY impacted my wife's and my own experience, and made things less enjoyable. It stunted our otherwise flawless pre-achievement experience with an hour or two of wasted time explaining things out of context and figuring out why our stories and unlocks weren't matching up. My wife hated it, and felt like she was doing something wrong because she didn't level as quickly, even though we are playing the exact same content, at the exact same time. How would this be impacting other players in like situations?

 

We got back on to play, and since I dodge, use mechanic skills and utilities more, and thus finish the achievements more quickly (which reward a LOT of xp). I went from 28-34  from 1 event. I'm still not sure how I got so many of the achievements completed in the single event, maybe it unlocked the backlog as well? It seems strange that someone can out-level the other just because they are dodging more, using more skills, reviving more players, etc.

 

We've never played another multiplayer/mmo where you could not share the same levelling experience with another person before. While it may not seem like much, the levelling experience is fundamental for retaining new players, and creating re-playability, otherwise no one would have levelling or alts. 


Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, so far XP boosting or just putting up with outstripping levels seems the only ways to go without deliberately avoiding content/gameplay.

The adventure guide volume 1 completion avoidance doesn't work. Vol 1 is complete after 14/17, and all of the things except the scouts and emotes are normal gameplay (vistas, levelling, looting, renown hearts, reviving, waypoints, using skills). 
Vol 2 has the crafting stuff (+choosing craft discipline, + earn craft levels) you might be able to avoid to stop unlocking vol 3 if you're willing to avoid an entire section of the game (but otherwise will unlock through normal play). Unfortunately it back logs so they're already done for myself. Hopefully it works for someone else though who wants to avoid this problem.

[Randulf.7614]

I’m a little confused. GW2 doesn’t do anything different in terms of a shared levelling experience than any other mmo beyond actually making it vastly easier for players of differing levels to play together. In 20 years, I’ve not seen one that makes it better in terms of accessibility and level playing field.

I admit the level locking is a bit unnecessary from my pov, but apparently vast numbers of players found it confusing without it according to their research.

Beyond that that, I’m confused why gw2 is considered worse than other mmos for shared co-op when I’ve always found it massively superior either levelling alongside, or helping as a level 80

[god fragment.5716]

I'm guessing, she's stuck on a lower tier of the adventure guide. If the level difference is the resault of the adventure guide, just have her look at the guide and complete those acheavements, like spamming a skill or dodge.

These is also the account xp bonus from kills, that might be part of  your problem.

[Vayne.8563]

There's no reason you can't be six levels ahead of her and still play downleveled her level. I coop with people all the time and I can pretty much do it on any character.  I'd have to be more careful on an 80 not to kill things too fast, but a difference of 10 levels? Not an issue in my opinion.

Different people can level at different speeds just because one is better at tagging or a bit faster. Seems more like a mindset than something actually wrong. It's not like other games where if you get ahead of someone you get nothing for hanging out with them in a lower level area.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Vayne.8563

[Cuks.8241]

She should use boosters and food and utilities that give xp. You can buy spirit banners, maybe hero banner for her. 

The only other advice I can think of is just play at her pace and dont care about your lvls. It shouldnt matter anyway. Dont upgrade your gear but buy get her good gear if there is power disparity that bothers you.

Youll hit lvl 80 eventually, very fast relative to all the content out there. From there on you have a huge amount of content you can do together without caring about lvl disparity.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Cuks.8241