Was EMP a mistake?

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Logos.3042 said:

Most noobs dont know what CC is, let alone looking at a tool tip that requires a hover-over and a line item within that.  This is certainly not an issue of "just learn it"; no new-comer is going to get this unless they wiki it out to find out what it is and how to deal with it, and what skills can affect the break bar.  

Unfortunately, many classes have multiple weapons sets that even if the beginner hovered over everything, they would never even see break bar damage.  That is asking quite a lot of a beginner.  As was mentioned earlier in the thread, people need an instruction mechanic.  The issue is much more complicated than "just read it".  

As I said, I use a second weapon set that is cc oriented. 

That's because the thing explaining it was added to EoD instead of having it earlier. The concept stays the same. The need to read a tooltip isn't something new player can't do either, I really don't know where that idea comes from.

What you've said in your previous post though is that "part of the issue is that not every weapon/utility skill has cc" -but that's not an issue, that's just the matter of making choices. You've then asked "how would you train someone to use it in game?" -and the answer to that is similarly to how it was explained/easy to test out in the EoD training arena. The issue isn't existance of the mechanic or that it's not tacked out to everything anyone ever equips (because what's the point then?), the issue is that it can be explained sooner.

[Justforvisit.3709]

Well, the main issue we have right now is, in my opinion, that after 10 years we got used to call it "CC" we still call it that, though it FINALLY got an official name with "Defiance Break" which would be shortened do "DB"

Can we please start calling it "DB" instead of "CC"?

That would also make it easier for newcomers to "line the dots"

Either that, or Arenanet has to rename it so that both words start with a C.

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Justforvisit.3709 said:

Well, the main issue we have right now is, in my opinion, that after 10 years we got used to call it "CC" we still call it that, though it FINALLY got an official name with "Defiance Break" which would be shortened do "DB"

Can we please start calling it "DB" instead of "CC"?

That would also make it easier for newcomers to "line the dots"

Either that, or Arenanet has to rename it so that both words start with a C.

"CC" isn't something gw2 came up with, it's a regular term in games meaning "crowd control".

"Defiance break" relates to "Defiance bar", which is what the blue bar is called https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_bar

[Logos.3042]

45 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's because the thing explaining it was added to EoD instead of having it earlier. The concept stays the same. The need to read a tooltip isn't something new player can't do either, I really don't know where that idea comes from.

What you've said in your previous post though is that "part of the issue is that not every weapon/utility skill has cc" -but that's not an issue, that's just the matter of making choices. You've then asked "how would you train someone to use it in game?" -and the answer to that is similarly to how it was explained/easy to test out in the EoD training arena. The issue isn't existance of the mechanic or that it's not tacked out to everything anyone ever equips (because what's the point then?), the issue is that it can be explained sooner.

Again, you are missing just about everything I posted. Good luck!

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Logos.3042 said:

Again, you are missing just about everything I posted. Good luck!

I must be blind then, since from my perspective I quoted and responded to what you've said. What specifically was missed? Maybe I just don't understand what you mean.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

My mistake. I meant to say  Why is EMP more important on Soo Won than CC? Edited my original post.

Refer to above comments.

And the comments you link to show the answer - EMP is more important than other CC options becausae it is the strongest (300 base +400 from slow defiance bar damage) CC option available, accessible on a very short cooldown. On many specs, it is as strong as a whole complement of all CC options available... and it is also ranged, as well as a 10-target AoE (meaning, you often do not even have to aim it, which is extremely strong in a fight where the opponent moves around and detargets on a frequent basis)

Obviously, the Soo Won's defiance bar is not balance around EMP alone. It is balanced around assumption that people will use EMP as their base CC option, and then complement it with their usual CC skills on top of it. Which, again, means that even in good groups chances of people breaking that defiance bar without using EMP are extremely low. And that's when hoarding all those precious cc skills, which means not wasting them on whirlpool breaking at all (whirlpools, btw, are also clearly designed around EMP, not any other CC options).

In short, the answer to your question is that EMP is important, because having it will at least double (and often do far more than that) your potential CC output, as well as making it much more easily accessible and useable.

[Gehenna.3625]

7 hours ago, Justforvisit.3709 said:

Well, the main issue we have right now is, in my opinion, that after 10 years we got used to call it "CC" we still call it that, though it FINALLY got an official name with "Defiance Break" which would be shortened do "DB"

Can we please start calling it "DB" instead of "CC"?

That would also make it easier for newcomers to "line the dots"

Either that, or Arenanet has to rename it so that both words start with a C.

The thing is though that you break the defiance bar by using CC skills. So it really is correct. I mean there are other terms people use a lot that actually make no sense like "a DPS". We all know what it means but when you write it out it makes no sense to talk about a damage-per-second. Also LOS means line of sight, which means that you pull them DISallowing them line of sight so this actually means the opposite of what it actually is.

So yeah, using CC on the boss is actually what you do to break the defiance bar, so afaic CC does make sense.

[Firebeard.1746]

To answer the op: it's only a mistake if they balance around it, which they shouldn't for 2 reasons:

1) they tied it to an lw episode, so not everyone is guaranteed to have it

2) it takes a resource from said content. 

 

It's not a big deal imo if it makes ow content slightly easier: we earned the mastery after all and it's been a good teaching tool for people who don't know what cc is and stick it on their bars.

 

If anet is seriously opposed to its usage outside ib saga, they should nerf it outside ib saga or just not let it activate outside ib saga, not make it so people who don't have it need to bring every cc and its grandma on their action bar. That turns the CC bar from a mysterious mechanic to an obscenely annoying one.

[Silent.6137]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And the comments you link to show the answer - EMP is more important than other CC options...

Not disagreeing with your comments  but was wondering if you understood that snippet, although posed in the form of a question was not a question but rather a commentary.

[Fozzie.5370]

It's 2022, we all NEED EMP.

Burn it Link.

 

If you don't have access to EMP, do what you have to do to get access to it.

THE MACHINES ARE COMING

Edited October 5, 2022 by Greg.7086

[Urud.4925]

Yes, it was a mistake: it trivialized core contents (like the Shatterer) and made the new one brainless, since you don't have to choose your skills/utility skills to create a decent build, but just relying on that single button.

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said:

Yes, it was a mistake: it trivialized core contents (like the Shatterer) and made the new one brainless, since you don't have to choose your skills/utility skills to create a decent build, but just relying on that single button.

To be more precise, it trivialized the content for those that have already found it trivial. At the cost of making the new content harder than it would have otherwise been for everyone else.