The community is the best part of wvw why try to change that

[corkey.5237]

With the beta I feel like there need to be a mix of old and new, the community is the best part of wvw and everyone being in the same guild is not going to happen and it is sad not see the guys you enjoy playing with be mixed up all the time. I feel like they can do the best of both world by keeping the servers the way they are and let people change what wvw  server they rep (pve server set by default)  and give the one that want to try a different server the chance  to swap to whatever one has space, i think is would be the best way to keep everyone happy .

[Custodio.6134]

1 minute ago, corkey.5237 said:

(pve server set by default)

first of all: there are no PvE-Servers anymore, just the megaservers (NA/EU) everyone plays on. 

 

1 minute ago, corkey.5237 said:

veryone being in the same guild

reminder that how the recent betas worked are NOT how the final system will work. It is merely a placeholder since alliance-functionality (the ability to invite guilds and players to sign up for wvw together) is NOT even implemented yet. 
In the final version (whenever it may come) not everyone needs to be in the same guild, as long as all the guilds are in the same alliance (it may potentially even be possible that players can join alliances individually, even without guilds, but that´s not yet fully confirmed). 

 

4 minutes ago, corkey.5237 said:

and give the one that want to try a different server the chance  to swap to whatever one has space

that will still be a thing after WR is finished tho (even though it will be limited). in the initial preview on what they planned, they mentioned that there you will be able to change your alliance whenever you want (except of the last match of the season), however the "transfer" will only take effect on the NEXT season  (no more mid-season transfers to prevent bandwagoning)

[Diku.2546]

@OP

I wholeheartedly agree with you about community being the best part of WvW.

We need a design & plan that preserves communities & encourages 3 fundamental concepts . . . imho

1) WvW needs to embrace that Server stacking is a natural part of this game mode & choose to refocus this raw power into creating Healthy Competitive Match-Ups that values the "sacrifices" that players make for their Home Server.

2) WvW needs to allow Friends & Family to play together even though they're from different Servers.

3) WvW needs to allow Off-peak capping, but let players to work out a solution themselves.

Here's a detailed design & an actual step-by-step plan on HowTo get it done . . . imho

[ WvG ] - World vs Globes - road map to - [ Reboot WvW ]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

vs.

ANet's World Restructuring Design, FAQ, Updates, Future & Beta

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26547/world-restructuring/p1

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26877/world-restructuring-faq/p1

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/45856/world-restructuring-update-1/p1

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/61986/world-restructuring-update-2/p1

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-world-restructuring-and-the-future-of-world-vs-world

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/forum/69-wvw-world-restructuring-beta-feedback

Which of the 2 design & plan in bold would you pick & why?

Yours truly,
Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

#MyEoDPurchaseComingSoon

Edited October 23, 2022 by Diku.2546

[SFShinigami.1572]

Community is great for some servers, not so much for others.  There are a lot of people who grew tired of trying and congregated in the same place and basically left anyone who wants to try, suffering.  So now there are a handful of servers with good communities and the rest stuck in a malaise.  For every person that doesn't want to break up their community with alliances, theres just as many that don't enter wvw or dont want to fork out the gems to transfer that would benefit greatly from some sort of reshuffling system.

[Cuks.8241]

They should just let solo players without wvw guild and thus without alliance pick a team at the start of rematch. They should be able to check which alliances/guilds are on that team and they could pick a team with their for example favourite public commander.

And once the team's solo players quota is filled it just turns full. First come first serve. Maybe the team quota could reopen if enough players join the other teams so some players might get angry about it but it would still give them some choice beyond being randomly thrown somewhere every rematch.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Here is my major problems with posts like the OP:

Those who wish to be in a community going forward have a choice.  They can form a community guild and pull in the people that they wish would be a part of their alliance.  
 

Here is why they won’t:  Commanders.  Commanders who are part of guilds that work together run PUG squads for their current servers which, give many people the opportunity to run when those commanders are in.  Many of these players want the benefits of organized guilds I.e. pug squad commanders, without the commitment of being in their guild.

 

THAT’S the community they are ‘losing’.  
 

Many of these guilds are on full servers and want the ability to recruit new players, train and develop them.  You can’t do that when there is no new blood.

 

If the new system works like it was described, there will be about 40% of a ‘world’ that is made up of two alliances.  The remaining 60% would be made up of unaffiliated guilds (not in an alliance) and solo players.

 

Those solo players will be able to be recruited into guilds and/or one of the alliances.  So when the world is re-formed at the 8 or 12 or whatever week point, those players will stay with the alliance.

 

And we know people come and go, so alliance members who leave, open up spots.

 

 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

Just now, Cuks.8241 said:

They should just let solo players without wvw guild and thus without alliance pick a team at the start of rematch. They should be able to check which alliances/guilds are on that team and they could pick a team with their for example favourite public commander.

And once the team's solo players quota is filled it just turns full. First come first serve. Maybe the team quota could reopen if enough players join the other teams so some players might get angry about it but it would still give them some choice beyond being randomly thrown somewhere every rematch.

Or, I mean, they could just ask to join that commanders guild…..  Problem solved.

 

Guarantee if the player is wanting to learn and help, most of the commanders will have slots for them.  

[Xenesis.6389]

2 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

They should just let solo players without wvw guild and thus without alliance pick a team at the start of rematch. They should be able to check which alliances/guilds are on that team and they could pick a team with their for example favourite public commander.

And once the team's solo players quota is filled it just turns full. First come first serve. Maybe the team quota could reopen if enough players join the other teams so some players might get angry about it but it would still give them some choice beyond being randomly thrown somewhere every rematch.

🙄

[Cuks.8241]

Just now, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Or, I mean, they could just ask to join that commanders guild…..  Problem solved.

 

Guarantee if the player is wanting to learn and help, most of the commanders will have slots for them.  

Thats the best solution for sure. But there are guilds that have strict requirements to join but the commanders might also run morning ppt public runs or public casual Thursdays or evening drunk raids or whatever.

Actually many popular commanders do just that on the evenings when not guild raiding and they attract massive population that might not even join the discord or squad. And that is fine and intended by all parties involved.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Just now, Cuks.8241 said:

Thats the best solution for sure. But there are guilds that have strict requirements to join but the commanders might also run morning ppt public runs or public casual Thursdays or evening drunk raids or whatever.

Actually many popular commanders do just that on the evenings when not guild raiding and they attract massive population that might not even join the discord or squad. And that is fine and intended by all parties involved.

Again, if you aren’t willing to do what they ask, then find another guild.

 

You don’t get a free pass for the benefits of a commander if you aren’t willing to put something in other than a warm body.

And sure, commanders do it.  But many would prefer people who WILL get on discord and use a comped class.  
 

If fact, the ones I run with will kick those  not on discord or on a comped class for someone who IS on discord and a comped class.

 

Reality:  there are options for players that want their cake.  They just come with a price to have it and eat it too.

[Cuks.8241]

Just now, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Again, if you aren’t willing to do what they ask, then find another guild.

 

You don’t get a free pass for the benefits of a commander if you aren’t willing to put something in other than a warm body.

And sure, commanders do it.  But many would prefer people who WILL get on discord and use a comped class.  
 

If fact, the ones I run with will kick those  not on discord or on a comped class for someone who IS on discord and a comped class.

 

Reality:  there are options for players that want their cake.  They just come with a price to have it and eat it too.

We will not be accepting players in guild that aren't dedicated. If alliance cap is 250 that's for sure.

Our boss has a big following. He does lot's public runs and we all like it. Every evening doesnt need to be a discord raid. We do learning evening for anyone to join, kinda the point. I get whispered in game to say hello to my guild boss. Whats the harm if those guys that are not in the guild but like to play with us when we go open tag can get a choice to maybe join us for a match. 

[Strider Pj.2193]

Just now, Cuks.8241 said:

We will not be accepting players in guild that aren't dedicated. If alliance cap is 250 that's for sure.

Our boss has a big following. He does lot's public runs and we all like it. Every evening doesnt need to be a discord raid. We do learning evening for anyone to join, kinda the point. I get whispered in game to say hello to my guild boss. Whats the harm if those guys that are not in the guild but like to play with us when we go open tag can get a choice to maybe join us for a match. 

Alliance cap won’t be less than guild cap.

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 minute ago, Cuks.8241 said:

. Whats the harm if those guys that are not in the guild but like to play with us when we go open tag can get a choice to maybe join us for a match. 

As long as those commanders can also say ‘these players can’t join my world’ sure.  😉

 

Your commander will still have the opportunity to do those runs in their new ‘world’.  In fact, every 8 weeks or so, he’ll be able to perform for new people.  He’ll love the exposure!

[Cuks.8241]

3 minutes ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Alliance cap won’t be less than guild cap.

250 was the number thrown around a few times. Open to changes. Even if its more this will limit spots in good alliances and thus guilds.

Unless the number will be really high. But that would be problematic for balance since than you could have some serious power stacking.   

We plan to align 3 guild in alliance (if this ever happens and most dont just quit). At 250 alliance cap that's ~80 spots per guild. There will be some cut off.

And I am not afraid for my boss exposure 🙂 Alliances are good for active guilds. But the mode is not just guilds. We are probably less important for the mode's survival than the random players.  

[Chaba.5410]

3 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

250 was the number thrown around a few times.

Where do you get this from?  I've only ever seen the number 500 "thrown around" from what Anet's publicly said about this.

[Strider Pj.2193]

2 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

250 was the number thrown around a few times. Open to changes. Even if its more this will limit spots in good alliances and thus guilds.

Unless the number will be really high. But that would be problematic for balance since than you could have some serious power stacking.   

We plan to align 3 guild in alliance (if this ever happens and most dont just quit). At 250 alliance cap that's ~80 spots per guild. There will be some cut off.

And I am not afraid for my boss exposure 🙂 Alliances are good for active guilds. But the mode is not just guilds. We are probably less important for the mode's survival than the random players.  

Alliance cap will be 500.  Not 250.  
 

You’ve played the game a bunch.  You know what the average, non consistent WvW player says when they pop on the map and there are no commanders.  
 

Without the guilds staying healthy, and training new commanders, it’ll be far worse.  

[Cuks.8241]

1 minute ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Alliance cap will be 500.  Not 250.  
 

You’ve played the game a bunch.  You know what the average, non consistent WvW player says when they pop on the map and there are no commanders.  
 

Without the guilds staying healthy, and training new commanders, it’ll be far worse.  

Mixed up the numbers I guess. Definitely better, doesn't fully invalidate my point though.

The mode is a symbiosis of everyone. There arent just 2 poles, plenty of grey in between with all sorts of players. 

The thing is no one made a point against the team choice anyway. Its mostly just "forget about dirty casuals, they dont matter". Ok there are the band wagon griefers. But I dont believe you if you tell me you wont miss your every day server flamer.    

[Strider Pj.2193]

58 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

 

The thing is no one made a point against the team choice anyway. Its mostly just "forget about dirty casuals, they dont matter". Ok there are the band wagon griefers. But I dont believe you if you tell me you wont miss your every day server flamer.    

I won’t miss my every day server flamers.  (We have multiple lol) because there will ALWAYS be players that rage against commanders for multiple reasons.

 

Honestly?  The ‘dirty casuals’ aren’t a worry now.  I feel like 5-10% of them will stay.  And it’s those that can be recruited and become new blood.  
 

No tears for them but servers like Gandara and Blackgate have guilds who have left in order to recruit.  Any server they get linked with, those players just become bandwagoners to the new links, or the players are lost until they get re-linked.  Those players will be able to join one of the guilds in an alliance.  And if your guild/alliance doesn’t do regular maintenance of players who stopped playing, then that is the issue with the guild leaders. 
 

But back on topic:  no worries about the numbers as we both know, nothing is final yet and God knows Anet may not even do this lol..

 

Honestly, the best part about not having team picks, is there are guilds that offer training to players on their world regardless of their home server.  This just continues to allow players to move out to competing worlds and alliances to make more matchups, more competitive.

 And I could see your commander being instrumental in that if they choose.  

[Custodio.6134]

5 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

They should just let solo players without wvw guild and thus without alliance pick a team at the start of rematch. They should be able to check which alliances/guilds are on that team and they could pick a team with their for example favourite public commander.

And once the team's solo players quota is filled it just turns full. First come first serve. Maybe the team quota could reopen if enough players join the other teams so some players might get angry about it but it would still give them some choice beyond being randomly thrown somewhere every rematch.

i´m not 100% sure, but i think that may actually be intended to turn out this way. Don't forget, that everything is still in development, which leaves open the possibility for non-guild/alliance-players to choose a team after alliances and guilds have been matched into teams. That doesn't mean that the chances are high it will be this way in the finished WR, but it is (as for now) a potential design-choice that COULD become reality. A small hint on that is, that players, as long they meet some kind of requirement (which is, if i'm not mistaken, applied to players that don't have any, or not enough, data from wvw-activity) they were able to choose which team they wanted to join in the beta-phases. Ofc i don't know what exactly determined if you get automatically assigned, and when you got the choice, but it hints towards the possibility. 

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Custodio.6134 said:

i´m not 100% sure, but i think that may actually be intended to turn out this way. Don't forget, that everything is still in development, which leaves open the possibility for non-guild/alliance-players to choose a team after alliances and guilds have been matched into teams. That doesn't mean that the chances are high it will be this way in the finished WR, but it is (as for now) a potential design-choice that COULD become reality. A small hint on that is, that players, as long they meet some kind of requirement (which is, if i'm not mistaken, applied to players that don't have any, or not enough, data from wvw-activity) they were able to choose which team they wanted to join in the beta-phases. Ofc i don't know what exactly determined if you get automatically assigned, and when you got the choice, but it hints towards the possibility. 

The "requirement" was not having played WvW for a long time. So if you dont play WvW for like 2 months in order to get with your popular commander, sure lol. 

Here's why its going to be annoying as kitten to do it large scale that way - those players cant be counted into the average. The "full" cap wouldnt be like today, it would be extremely strict since all teams would technically almost be "full" at reschuffle, with some allowance for new players. Like it would fill up in seconds if people decided to stack the "popular" team and then it'd be a whackamole game since they all have to close and open to maintain that rough average. And if you want that settled BEFORE the season actually start... what are we going to do, wait 2 months with locked WvW every other 2 months just for every random pug to finish choosing team?

There is of course a simpler solution... join that popular commanders guild or alliance. Dont want to? Or cant accept the demands? First come first serve, move aside cause there are probably others waiting that do accept it. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Cuks.8241]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Here's why its going to be annoying as kitten to do it large scale that way - those players cant be counted into the average. The "full" cap wouldnt be like today, it would be extremely strict since all teams would technically almost be "full" at reschuffle, with some allowance for new players. Like it would fill up in seconds if people decided to stack the "popular" team and then it'd be a whackamole game since they all have to close and open to maintain that rough average. And if you want that settled BEFORE the season actually start... what are we going to do, wait 2 months with locked WvW every other 2 months just for every random pug to finish choosing team?

I dont think you need to have it settled before start. Maybe you can settle it at the point when a player without alliance enters the WvW for the first time after the rematch. Player enters the WvW, gets a choice of open teams (maybe there is only one, maybe there are a bunch) and if he doesn't choose any team, the algorithm determines his team.

This will need to be done anyway during the match for the new players so teams will never be fully locked and will grow continuously. 

The confidence might be even better if its not all settled before the rematch and is done at the first login for non alliance players. At least you know that way that a player intends to play WvW during this match.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Cuks.8241

[Dawdler.8521]

29 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Player enters the WvW, gets a choice of open teams (maybe there is only one, maybe there are a bunch) and if he doesn't choose any team, the algorithm determines his team.

This is literally arguing the exact same reshuffle system as world restructure but now on the basis that players refuse to join a community. 

Yet people yell "ma community!" as the reason world restructure is crap.

[EyzKold.8247]

The devs need to uncap the number of guilds we can have….maybe increase the number to 10 guilds then  some of the roamers might have a home.  My current guild slots are full and I’m not going to drop them.   

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, EyzKold.8247 said:

The devs need to uncap the number of guilds we can have….maybe increase the number to 10 guilds then  some of the roamers might have a home.  My current guild slots are full and I’m not going to drop them.   

Why would they need to add 5 more guild slots when you only need to select 1 guild for wvw, and that guild can even be your bank or pve guilds? depending if you're joining an alliance or not... Also wvw players have guild slots dedicated to wvw guilds, don't think it's too much to ask for one slot dedicated to wvw if you're going to be part of that community.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Svarty.8019]

21 hours ago, corkey.5237 said:

With the beta I feel like there need to be a mix of old and new, the community is the best part of wvw and everyone being in the same guild is not going to happen and it is sad not see the guys you enjoy playing with be mixed up all the time. I feel like they can do the best of both world by keeping the servers the way they are and let people change what wvw  server they rep (pve server set by default)  and give the one that want to try a different server the chance  to swap to whatever one has space, i think is would be the best way to keep everyone happy .

What if all the single (non-guilded) players get allocated the names of randoms from your regular server, so you get the illusion of them being people you know. It's not like you talk to them anyway.