The displeasure of playing bladesworn

[Arewn.2368]

An often pointed to element of Bladesworn which people find unpleasant is Dragon Trigger's self root. But frankly, the immobility doesn't strike me as a problem on its own. 

What really gets my goat are the random forced movement skills: Dragon Spike Mine and Dragon's Roar (Gunstinger compounds upon this slightly).

I can deal with the standing still part. Flicker Step and Trigger Guard actually make it a fun alternative form of position management. What I have a problem with is flying backwards during the portion of my rotation that is supposed to have freedom of movement.

That's not to say it is unmanageable. But it certainly isn't fun.

And what really irks me is that the movement on DSM/DR might actually be useful if they were available DURING Dragon Trigger. Instead they just make positioning a constant pain, adding further encumbrance to positioning on an already movement restrictive spec.

 

The push back on Dragon's Roar is silly. Just remove it. It does add some sense of "force" to the skill, but ultimately it just makes it less fun.

Not sure why "dodge backwards" was considered useful utility on BS from conception. Resetting DT is all well and good,  but the rest of the skill needs to be re-thought.

IMO make it ground targetted, so you role to the target location. And make it useable during DT without interrupting it. We could use it to reposition during DT that way. It would immediately reset the CD upon exiting if used this way.

Or just change it to throw the mine instead, idk.

 

I haven't done much experimenting with Daring Dragon. But if they buffed it to be the superior dps option, then I think it has potential as a more accessible and fun playstyle.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Arewn.2368

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

35 minutes ago, Arewn.2368 said:

An often pointed to element of Bladesworn which people find unpleasant is Dragon Trigger's self root. But frankly, the immobility doesn't strike me as a problem on its own. 

What really gets my goat are the random forced movement skills: Dragon Spike Mine and Dragon's Roar (Gunstinger compounds upon this slightly).

I can deal with the standing still part. Flicker Step and Trigger Guard actually make it a fun alternative form of position management. What I have a problem with is flying backwards during the portion of my rotation that is supposed to have freedom of movement.

That's not to say it is unmanageable. But it certainly isn't fun.

And what really irks me is that the movement on DSM/DR might actually be useful if they were available DURING Dragon Trigger. Instead they just make positioning a constant pain, adding further encumbrance to positioning on an already movement restrictive spec.

 

The push back on Dragon's Roar is silly. Just remove it. It does add some sense of "force" to the skill, but ultimately it just makes it less fun.

Not sure why "dodge backwards" was considered useful utility on BS from conception. Resetting DT is all well and good,  but the rest of the skill needs to be re-thought.

IMO make it ground targetted, so you role to the target location. And make it useable during DT without interrupting it. We could use it to reposition during DT that way. It would immediately reset the CD upon exiting if used this way.

Or just change it to throw the mine instead, idk.

 

I haven't done much experimenting with Daring Dragon. But if they buffed it to be the superior dps option, then I think it has potential as a more accessible and fun playstyle.

How about drop the mine then dodge around the target, like the ranger sword skill.

[Arewn.2368]

7 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

How about drop the mine then dodge around the target, like the ranger sword skill.

That could be interesting, probably more useful then dodging backwards for a melee spec. In particular if useable during DT.

 

But I think it would still cause the same annoyance for PVE positioning . If they could atleast make it aware of directional input, like a quasi dodge role.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

How about drop the mine then dodge around the target, like the ranger sword skill.

I'd prefer that it break stun, teleport 1200 range, and cleanse 2 conditions. A 40s CD sounds about right. 

[Telgum.6071]

I'm just not a fan of the Dragonsaber kit and having only one weapon set. In every content I have more fun playing Core and Spellbreaker.

[Zekent.3652]

On 11/4/2022 at 6:31 PM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I'd prefer that it break stun, teleport 1200 range, and cleanse 2 conditions. A 40s CD sounds about right. 

Sounds way too broken, no way something like that is in the game, right? right? 👀

Edited November 6, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[felix.2386]

big after cast which prevent properly chaining skills

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

54 minutes ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Sound way too broken, no way something like that is in the game, right? right? 👀

Shh, we have to have inferior skills because of InTrInSiC sTaTs or so the eles tell me.

[nopoet.2960]

On 11/4/2022 at 3:49 PM, Arewn.2368 said:

The push back on Dragon's Roar is silly. Just remove it. It does add some sense of "force" to the skill, but ultimately it just makes it less fun.

Not sure why "dodge backwards" was considered useful utility on BS from conception. Resetting DT is all well and good,  but the rest of the skill needs to be re-thought.

They do this a lot with thief skills too.  I suspect its true function is an anti spam mechanic for skills with no cooldowns or just a way to impose a more "natural" feeling cooldown. 

[Jzaku.9765]

The only skill I really take issue with gameplay-wise is Dragonspike Mine. This skill is clearly intended to be a defensive tool but the most recent DPS changes to Bladesworn (Tactics instead of Disc, compounding effect with Overcharged Cartridges) made it one of the strongest DPS utilities in the game. Nobody complains about Lightning Reflexes on Ranger - the issue with D-Mine is that it's purpose is completely misaligned with it's intent.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Jzaku.9765

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

9 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

The only skill I really take issue with gameplay-wise is Dragonspike Mine. This skill is clearly intended to be a defensive tool but the most recent DPS changes to Bladesworn (Tactics instead of Disc, compounding effect with Overcharged Cartridges) made it one of the strongest DPS utilities in the game. Nobody complains about Lightning Reflexes on Ranger - the issue with D-Mine is that it's purpose is completely misaligned with it's intent.

Well... You're absolutely right in PvE. In PvP/WvW, though, that skill actually could be really good if it were on a 25s CD. In competitive, defensive utilities are much more important, and having one that reset your main mechanic could be very powerful indeed. Alas, on it's 35s CD, there's no way I'd pick it over endure pain, SIO, or even stomp.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Bladesworn just lacks so much in competitive especially in the fun department. It's a pure PVE spec. The worst part is that I have a feeling they aren't going to anything about it.

It actually makes me regret buying end of dragons lol. How am I having more fun with the old stuff but not the new thing lol.

The most fun warrior builds right now imo is full glass killshot/gunflame and hammer warrior. 

[Arewn.2368]

Some thoughts after playing around with Daring Dragon:

DD is fun, but obviously needs a buff. It feels like the only place it would ever fit is on a PVE dps build in the first place. So either buff it with that in mind, or change it altogether.

 

A Lush Forest build centered around a 10sec  Tactical Reload fueled Dragon Trigger window every 20 seconds seems like it could be fun with some adjustments.

Dragon Spike Mine isn't needed in this build, freeing a utility slot.

I think they need to increase the max charge with Daring Dragon from 5 to 6.

The frequency of the slashes combined with the jankiness of it briefly popping you into gunsaber after each slash does make Trigger Guard and Flicker Step more difficult to use though. And to avoid triggering your weapon swap cool down, you have to end Dragon Trigger by spamming a gunsaber skill during those brief transition. Otherwise you can find yourself stuck with a half loaded DT and no flow. So there's a big layer of jank to the whole thing.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Arewn.2368

[Jzaku.9765]

23 minutes ago, Arewn.2368 said:

Some thoughts after playing around with Daring Dragon:

DD is fun, but obviously needs a buff. It feels like the only place it would ever fit is on a PVE dps build in the first place. So either buff it with that in mind, or change it altogether.

 

A Lush Forest build centered around a 10sec  Tactical Reload fueled Dragon Trigger window every 20 seconds seems like it could be fun with some adjustments.

Dragon Spike Mine isn't needed in this build, freeing a utility slot.

I think they need to increase the max charge with Daring Dragon from 5 to 6.

The frequency of the slashes combined with the jankiness of it briefly popping you into gunsaber after each slash does make Trigger Guard and Flicker Step more difficult to use though. And to avoid triggering your weapon swap cool down, you have to end Dragon Trigger by spamming a gunsaber skill during those brief transition. Otherwise you can find yourself stuck with a half loaded DT and no flow. So there's a big layer of jank to the whole thing.

You absolutely do not want Daring Dragon's effects to be the PVE DPS build. It's already bad enough trying to get Dragon Slash off in most recent endgame content - Imagine wanting to be locked in place even longer for as long as your adrenaline can sustain you (which is pretty long). 

[Vancho.8750]

I personally do not like all the busy work you have to go through to do a DT, the cartridges utility mechanic sucks cause it does nothing but add multiplier to do the damage but you have to do a cast to do nothing. The damage stacks from explosions are annoying to keep up and most of the time you just fire in the air just to stack it up. The teleport on DT is too short range and annoying to use. 
The whole spec feels really bad to play when you want to do the damage, it is like grinding a car transmission with gear stick the wrong way. 

[Arewn.2368]

52 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

You absolutely do not want Daring Dragon's effects to be the PVE DPS build. It's already bad enough trying to get Dragon Slash off in most recent endgame content - Imagine wanting to be locked in place even longer for as long as your adrenaline can sustain you (which is pretty long). 

I'm sort of in agreement questioning Daring Dragon. But I could also see it working.

Like I said before, they either need to buff it or scrap it altogether. Right now it's useless.

But on the point of it's use, as things stand you wouldn't stay in DD until Flow runs out. You would stay in it for just over 9 seconds, in other words for as long as Tactical Reload and Overcharge Cartridge last.

Then you spend about 10 seconds out of DT rebuilding flow and proc'ing Lush Forest so that TR is available again by the time DT's cool down ends.

You'd spend half the rotation "immobile", but would have more uses of Trigger Guard and Flicker Step. The DTs are faster and more frequent but weaker, so wiffing one is individually less detrimental. And you don't have to deal with DSM rolling backwards.

 

The biggest pain points to the playstyle right now are the awkward way Daring Dragon actually works (briefly goes into gunsaber and then flips back to DT each slash), and not having a good way to cancel DT without triggering weapon swap CD.

 

I agree with @Vancho.8750 too. They should at the very least reduce the cast time of cartridge. Fierce as Fire should require the explosion to actually hit to gain a stack, in order to address out of combat skill spamming. And the teleport isn't quite enough on it own, one of the armament utilities should provide mobility that is useable in DT.

[Vancho.8750]

@Arewn.2368

The whole cartridge sucks, since it is not just the cast time, you don't want to activate it for the effect cause you always want the damage, on top of that the mechanic is so kittening boring . It goes anti on everything Anet said about skills, at the time they wanted to make easier to play the rework on this went to make it more annoying and hard to play. All the armament skills fix a problem that the spec creates so not only does the spec lose weapon swap but you also lose the utility slots. Fierce as Fire sucks cause they tuned it in a way that you have to use Pistol, which also sucks cause it is boring.

Both the Sabre and the DT could have been fine as standalone mechanic to carry the spec if they  were good skills, but no you have to use everything BS to do decent damage. Even with all these restrictions it wouldn't have been bad if it was fun and enjoyable to play and the skills weren't so boring and low impact and the only reason to play it is the dry numbers on the golem. Somehow Anet managed to f up the fun concept of Explosions Samurai.