Nov 29 Mesmer patchnotes

[Infusion.7149]

Mesmer

One of our goals for mesmer is to address the performance of the staff/axe mirage build, which we feel doesn't have to sacrifice quite enough for the boon uptime it provides. We've moved some of the boon application to the clones' staff ambush, which will force the mirage to choose between higher boon uptime with staff clones or higher damage output with axe clones.

We've targeted some improvements to chronomancer's power damage builds in PvE, bumping up the damage of some sword skills, wells, and Chronophantasma. We've also slightly reduced Continuum Split's duration in PvP after seeing the performance of chronomancer following its restored access to distortion.

Core

• Mind Slash: Increased power coefficient from 0.8 to 1.0 in PvE only.
• Mind Gash: Increased power coefficient from 0.8 to 1.0 in PvE only.
• Mind Spike: Increased power coefficient when striking enemies with boons from 1.0 to 1.5 PvE only.

Chronomancer

• Chronophantasma: Increased resummoned phantasm damage from 75% to 100% in PvE only.
• Well of Calamity: Increased power coefficient of initial strikes from 0.5 to 1.0 in PvE only.
• Gravity Well (PvE only): Reduced cooldown from 90 seconds to 60 seconds. Increased power coefficient for pulsing strikes from 0.6 to 0.8. Increased power coefficient for the final strike from 2.4 to 3.0.
• Continuum Split: Reduced duration from 1.5/3/4.5/6 to 1/2/3/4 in PvP only.

Mirage

• Chaos Vortex: Clones using this skill will now grant the same boons in an area of effect around the mesmer instead of around the clones themselves. Reduced alacrity duration from 2.5 seconds to 1 second. Reduced might stacks from 8 to 2.

---

I wonder if mirage axe ambush bugs have been fixed if there are nerfs to "staxe". No second dodge for mirages in PVP/WVW ; chrono and sword buffs though.
The nerf to staxe seems as though you need staff clones in order to provide alacrity properly, which is fair I guess.
edit: oh and Well of Action is still rather janky in terms of waiting 3s for superspeed.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[otto.5684]

I am not seeing what the devs are talking about regarding axe/staff. Axe is the same. Staff support is nuked from orbit. I dunno if it would be viable.

Edited November 11, 2022 by otto.5684

[Mike.7983]

5 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

I am not seeing what the devs are talking about regarding axe/staff. Axe is the same. Staff support is nuked from orbit. I dunno if it would be viable.

People misunderstanding the staff changes?  You will still get your 8 might with even more alac after patch, you will just need all 3 clones out first to benefit fully, 0 clones out 2 might, 3 out 8 might with 4+ seconds of alac.  It's a buff/win on longer fights overall.  Tired of people calling it a nerf without understanding it, to clarify the might/alac pulses off the mesmer not the clones, positioning is not a issue.

[otto.5684]

7 minutes ago, Mike.7983 said:

People misunderstanding the staff changes?  You will still get your 8 might with even more alac after patch, you will just need all 3 clones out first to benefit fully, 0 clones out 2 might, 3 out 8 might with 4+ seconds of alac.  It's a buff/win on longer fights overall.  Tired of people calling it a nerf without understanding it, to clarify the might/alac pulses off the mesmer not the clones, positioning is not a issue.

To be fair, the Anet description is not clear. And ya, if that is the case it will be a buff.

[Salt Mode.3780]

45 minutes ago, Mike.7983 said:

People misunderstanding the staff changes?  You will still get your 8 might with even more alac after patch, you will just need all 3 clones out first to benefit fully, 0 clones out 2 might, 3 out 8 might with 4+ seconds of alac.  It's a buff/win on longer fights overall.  Tired of people calling it a nerf without understanding it, to clarify the might/alac pulses off the mesmer not the clones, positioning is not a issue.

This maybe seen as a buff in PvE overall nerf in competitive play.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[zealex.9410]

Its a nerf to stax and a buff to alac staff mirage.

[Mike.7983]

25 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

This maybe seen as a buff in PvE overall nerf in competitive play.

Ya def a nerf to competitive sadly unless able to dump 3 clones on target fast.

[Varis.5467]

We are still losing out on the might stack however, which is essential to the overall damage for mirage in pvp/ wvw.

[Jimbru.6014]

The way I read this is that ArenaNet plans to nerf every mesmer who uses staff because one particular build used by misbegotten meta edge riders was over-performing. If that's NOT what it means, then somebody with an ArenaNet tag needs to clarify it.

[Flow.2947]

First off, thanks to the balance team for sharing and voicing their thoughts!💖

I am speaking from a WvW perspective of 15-30 players. It feels like Mesmer are in a good position, from a developer perspective. Where I feel Mesmer is just there to cc and strip boons. (Still the slave of his utility, outclassed by his core utility, and lucky to have a good elite skill with gravity that syncs well with some core traits and cc is always good). Maybe it's just because Chrono is the only viable option as a Mesmer in wvw. Looking at Roys and Teapots  tier list 6 months ago, I fear that no big change is coming soon.

As for Distortion being a bit too powerful on specializations.... well, who would have thought that when it was removed earlier because it was too powerful xD. 

But I think distortion is, or was not the problem for mesmer. I'm keeping my hopes up for the bigger changes, but i might need to see it in a different perspective first

 

 

 

[Justine.6351]

Don't infuse your opinion with patch notes post.

[Salt Mode.3780]

46 minutes ago, Flow.2947 said:

First off, thanks to the balance team for sharing and voicing their thoughts!💖

I am speaking from a WvW perspective of 15-30 players. It feels like Mesmer are in a good position, from a developer perspective. Where I feel Mesmer is just there to cc and strip boons. (Still the slave of his utility, outclassed by his core utility, and lucky to have a good elite skill with gravity that syncs well with some core traits and cc is always good). Maybe it's just because Chrono is the only viable option as a Mesmer in wvw. Looking at Roys and Teapots  tier list 6 months ago, I fear that no big change is coming soon.

As for Distortion being a bit too powerful on specializations.... well, who would have thought that when it was removed earlier because it was too powerful xD. 

But I think distortion is, or was not the problem for mesmer. I'm keeping my hopes up for the bigger changes, but i might need to see it in a different perspective first

 

 

 

If you are trying to get the dev on the good side it ain't happening. First off I don't know where you would bring core Mesmer, Mirage, and Virtuoso in a 15-30 man fight. Chrono at best you would want like 2 in a whole group. Perhaps with the firebrand changes that this might change but its doubtful. 

Distortion is only stupid on Virtuoso and this was voiced out but Chrono/ ONE DODGE Mirage still needed it. 

I don't understand where your post is coming from but today the buffs were to PvE on weapon damage which really means nothing and a nerf to Chrono csplit and Mirage staff output on competitive play which includes WvW. There has been no mentions of giving Mirage 2nd dodge OR FIXING Mirage axe interaction. 

Just stop with trying to kissing up to the devs.

[Varis.5467]

Maybe the staff is their second most hated weapon right after the axe. 

 

 

[Forbiben.3842]

Chronos biggest issue in raid CSing back into the thing your moving out of.

 

[Fray.3417]

The problem with the staff ambush changes are that it just makes the weapon more unfun to play. It feels like having staff/staff full alacrity, axe/axe full DPS and staff/axe doing less alacrity than the former and less DPS than the latter was a healthy set of options. PUGs in the raid finder generally only allow for full alacrity role or full DPS role, so it’s destroying the “jack of all trades” option for mirage and only letting us have 2 PVE builds - both of which only let you have one mainhand weapon so you don’t get to enjoy weapon diversity. Why kill build variety like this when Staxe is already a rare sight anyway and shaft an interesting hybrid build?

Now staff ambush will be worthless without 3 staff clones up. At least with other weapons’ ambushes, even with the mandatory-in-PVE Infinite Horizon trait, the bulk of the ambush value is coming from the player directly and any extra clone chip damage is extra icing on the cake. Tying so much of the ambush value into clone uptime in a climate where clones can die so easily to AoE cleave devalues angry mirage build using staff other than that one staff/staff alacrity build. Awful for the health of the class.

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Fray.3417

[Ellon.4316]

On a more positive note, with the mirage changes you are not "tied" to staff anymore to provide alac. All you need is 3 staff clones, switch to another weapon and you will still provide alac/might. Which means staff/staff for full alac is not necessary but staxe can also provide 100% alac uptime, 3 clones is 3 seconds alac vs the current 2.5 seconds from staff ambush. Just make sure to keep your staff clones alive.

So in a certain sense staxe can now chose between 100% alac, more dps or a bit of both. The last one being the easiest because you don't have to worry about overwriting specific weapon clones (assuming just switching weapons and summoning an equal amount of clones with each weapon).

[Flow.2947]

2 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

...

If you are trying to get the dev on the good side it ain't happening.
Beeing polite is not trying to bring them on the good side that is just me 
First off I don't know where you would bring core Mesmer, Mirage, and Virtuoso in a 15-30 man fight.
Exactly that is the reason why i want changes and balance to dont have them in "illusion of life tier"...
Chrono at best you would want like 2 in a whole group. Perhaps with the firebrand changes that this might change but its doubtful. 
Yes but it should have a viable dps/cleans/heal or boon support roll aswell. Dosnt need to be best in slot but viable.

Distortion is only stupid on Virtuoso and this was voiced out but Chrono/ ONE DODGE Mirage still needed it. 
I agree

I don't understand where your post is coming from but today the buffs were to PvE on weapon damage which really means nothing and a nerf to Chrono csplit and Mirage staff output on competitive play which includes WvW. There has been no mentions of giving Mirage 2nd dodge OR FIXING Mirage axe interaction. 

I was watching the stream and listening to what was said while presenting Mesmer so including devs thoughts and opinions. I never said that i agree. I merely hope that they will address bigger issues with that class to have more viability in 15-30+ content. 
Just stop with trying to kissing up to the devs.

Saying thanks is not kissing up to someone its just my appreciation how they are presenting things.

[katte nici.9483]

The last patch gave me hope. This patch shatters it like I shatter my clones.

[Varis.5467]

46 minutes ago, katte nici.9483 said:

The last patch gave me hope. This patch shatters it like I shatter my clones.

Yes, and specifically a full clone shatter that missed and resulting only in a waste of resource. 

[Mike.7983]

So like the last time staff ambush got reverted from massive backlash against it due to punishing us based on the 1%, do we need to make alot of noise to anet to cancel the nerf?  Do not see why it was needed mirage ambush was not op at all.

[Curunen.8729]

This hole of less interesting gameplay that mirage has been dug into over the last five years, now seems to be taking another step back to encourage doubling up on the same weapon and more passive reliance on clones.

(I hate 2x same weapon builds with on swap sigils - weapon swap should be for variety not for "reloading".)

And when are the 2 dodges coming back? Or are we going to get these little aimless nudges every patch for the next 5 years?

[Waffles.5632]

21 hours ago, Mike.7983 said:

People misunderstanding the staff changes?  You will still get your 8 might with even more alac after patch, you will just need all 3 clones out first to benefit fully, 0 clones out 2 might, 3 out 8 might with 4+ seconds of alac.  It's a buff/win on longer fights overall.  Tired of people calling it a nerf without understanding it, to clarify the might/alac pulses off the mesmer not the clones, positioning is not a issue.

This is how I take it as well.

 

It's a nerf since a mirage can't just solo spam staff ambush outside of combat anymore for full alac and 25x might, now they will get partial alac and partial might. However once in combat and generating  clones, it's a straight buff.

This should be easy since Mirage already has access to Self-Deception. Staff 2 into double jaunt, there's your 3 clones inside ~2secs.

 

Anet is just making Mirage do a tiny bit more work, and it's fine. Staff ambush is itself a boring ability that's overtuned. Nothing should be spammable with Alac and 8x might, but it's been in game so long now, and with EoD specs, the new norm is overloaded everything so w/e.

 

It's funny because this "Change" doesn't actually change anything in the grand scheme of things. I view it more as Anet tidying up here and there. IMO it fits the theme of Mirage interacting with it's clones more. 

 

All other changes are straight damage buffs in pve, and the one nerf to CS in pvp, which is rightly so, though I would have done 5 secs instead of 4 secs personally.

 

All in all, good notes for Mesmer. All buffs, though there isn't anything substantial, just tiny changes here and there.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Ellon.4316]

I still don't think this is the nerf people make it out to be (from a pve perspective, not pvp). But gut-feelings aside i just went to the golem to test things out.

Build

• dueling 312
• chaos 131
• mirage 131

All boons, no food or utility. Mostly ritualist gear, some viper with nightmare runes. Only auto and ambush attacks. All averages are based on 3 runs with the exception of axe, multiple runs the ambush attack didn't trigger... Bugged runs are ignored in the averages

Clone DPS (only clone attack and clone ambushes, no auto attack)

• 3 axe clones hit on average for 8499
• 3 staff clones average: 6005
• 3 scepter clones average: 3602

Weapon auto attack DPS (no clones, with ambush attacks)

• axe average: 8736
• staff average: 6700

The alacrity part of "staxe" (clones, auto attack and ambush attacks)

• Staff with 3 axe clones average: 14.7k, alacrity is 1s instead of 2.5 so 60% decrease
• Staff with 1 staff clone and 2 axe clones: 13.8k, 2s alacrity (20% decrease)
• Axe with 3 staff clones average: 14.3k, 3s alacrity (20% increase)
• Axe with 2 staff and 1 axe clone average: 15.4k, 2s alacrity (20% decrease)
• Scepter with 3 scepter clones average: 9.2k. No alacrity, only sadness.

Yes, dps wise it will be interesting what rotations people will come up with, in the end i think there will be a small dps loss if you still want to hit 50% alac uptime. Also pre-applying boons will not be possible anymore because you heavily rely on clones.

On the other hand it is now beneficial to use both axe and staff clones and actually switch to axe instead of just camping staff for the alacrity. It also means alacrity can be applied by running staff with for example scepter and still provide 100% alac uptime as long as you keep your staff clones alive.

If you want anet to do something i rather have them fix the axe bugs and buff scepter because those are way bigger dps losses then this change. And of course add the second dodge in pvp for all the pvp'ers out there.

[Mike.7983]

Just glad double condi staff will be viable still, love shredding open world and planning to go primo staff for the whole wep swap jormag/primo fire/ice theme.

 

[Stavros.8249]

Very good changes. Staff mirage we wont have to break our fingers for alac. 

For Chrono i always liked wells and sword.