Is there a specific reason why WvW hasn't had any map updates for awhile?

[katniss.6735]

Is it because Desert borderlands didn't get great feedback?

Is it because Edge of the Mists is basically a ghost town now?

 

I've been playing since beta (along with most of my homies in-game), and it's because of WvW. The ease of just getting into a map and having fun roaming and fighting large groups of people has always made this my main game despite all the other kinds of games out. 

 

If any devs or players want to get into a constructive design discussion I'm down.

[Svarty.8019]

 

30 minutes ago, katniss.6735 said:

Is there a specific reason why WvW hasn't had any map updates for awhile?

YES. It's because NOTHING WILL BE DONE.

[Xenesis.6389]

Desert borderland had feedback, but they mostly ignored it for six months before they bothered to fix it.

Eotm is empty because it didn't receive the skirmish rewards when skirmish mode was implemented in wvw, players mostly played it for the fast rewards and leveling up, but it was only meant to be an overflow map when there's full map queues.

After those two maps they've meddled with ebg a couple more times, switching some breakable walls, moving ogrewatch cause gliding to it was too much of an advantage, moving smc north walls.

We will most likely never see a new map, they've stated it takes about a year to create a wvw map, which I don't know how since they can create 4-6 pve maps in that same time for expansions or living story, so that's where they focus their teams time on instead.

They can't even bothered to cover up some of the lingering exploits to get into objectives, or add the missing cornerstones to earth keep. 🤷‍♂️

[Svarty.8019]

30 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

They can't even bothered to cover up some of the lingering exploits to get into objectives, or add the missing cornerstones to earth keep. 🤷‍♂️

Or fix the number of red guards that spawn at north camp to be the same as when other teams own it.

Or fix the green dolyak getting stuck on their own garrison.

Or fix the broken mess at EB blue keep water gate where you can barely place siege anymore and the walls glitch between tiers.

etc etc

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Svarty.8019

[katniss.6735]

I'm aware of fixes that have happened in EBG. That's not really where I want to take this thread. Also, there are indeed still bugged walls that people glitch through because they aren't pieced together properly. I'm not sure if all classes can do it, but I noticed thieves doing it.

[Riba.3271]

They spent years making a decent desert map, but it is too multilayered that it caused people to have very little fights and lords had too much CC so playerbase didn't like it.

 

The fact that the desert map is still taking 1 map slot from alpine maps despite not being able to come near numbers of either alpine map, is just a mistake. They don't only have issue with making maps, but also deleting them.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Riba.3271

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

alliances🙃

[Longpoke.8290]

Because most people play pve. 

Devs put more effort where the population is, sadly. 

Thats why I think wvw should be separated from the pve servers.  Some servers are full but doesn't mean everyone plays wvw. Making it less populated against heavy wvw populated servers. 

 

Alliance is a bit of a update I guess? 

[Xenesis.6389]

45 minutes ago, katniss.6735 said:

I'm aware of fixes that have happened in EBG. That's not really where I want to take this thread. Also, there are indeed still bugged walls that people glitch through because they aren't pieced together properly. I'm not sure if all classes can do it, but I noticed thieves doing it.

Well where do you want to take the thread? cause we've already discussed new maps or designs hundreds of times over the years, and the devs haven't discussed anything with us since like 2017, they only post notices couple times a year like the WR beta.... so... 🤷‍♂️

Edited November 16, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 hour ago, Longpoke.8290 said:

Because most people play pve. 

Devs put more effort where the population is, sadly. 

Thats why I think wvw should be separated from the pve servers.  Some servers are full but doesn't mean everyone plays wvw. Making it less populated against heavy wvw populated servers. 

 

Alliance is a bit of a update I guess? 

PvE population does not affect WvW server ‘full’ status.  It’s okay hours in WvW.  

[Longpoke.8290]

50 minutes ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

PvE population does not affect WvW server ‘full’ status.  It’s okay hours in WvW.  

I never said it did. 

 

Pve, pvp, wvw.. . Its is 1 server for all modes

There are full servers where not everyone there plays wvw. So the population of Wvw isnt as much as a full server that has more players in wvw. 

 

[roederich.2716]

Because wvw community is like:

“mimimi we never get a new map“

and anet so:  „ok lets make a new map“

and community so: „mimimi this new map is horseshit“ and that without even having a closer look at the new map.

you know how many said about desert border that one cannot move fast on this map cause of all the canyons and such while there are haystacks to shortcut ways and if you conquer the shrines get access to mechanics that let you just travel fast like the tornados in firekeep, birds in airkeep and also jumppads, no fall damage buff… lol.

Ask the complainers for what the shrines are they cant answer.

I hope they make a new map multi layer. Need skyscale to play there. Only unlockable with pve. Happy birthday.

see it dont matters what anet does there are always these solo player analysts coming out their cave and just spend days and days to just seek for something so they can call the work „misconception“ just for their personal wellfeeling to know it better for a minute.

would you bring something new to such community?

[Xenesis.6389]

On 11/15/2022 at 11:43 PM, roederich.2716 said:

Because wvw community is like:

“mimimi we never get a new map“

and anet so:  „ok lets make a new map“

and community so: „mimimi this new map is horseshit“ and that without even having a closer look at the new map.

you know how many said about desert border that one cannot move fast on this map cause of all the canyons and such while there are haystacks to shortcut ways and if you conquer the shrines get access to mechanics that let you just travel fast like the tornados in firekeep, birds in airkeep and also jumppads, no fall damage buff… lol.

Ask the complainers for what the shrines are they cant answer.

I hope they make a new map multi layer. Need skyscale to play there. Only unlockable with pve. Happy birthday.

see it dont matters what anet does there are always these solo player analysts coming out their cave and just spend days and days to just seek for something so they can call the work „misconception“ just for their personal wellfeeling to know it better for a minute.

would you bring something new to such community?

🙄

Yeah we totally shouldn't complain.

There was feedback for the map in it's beta's btw, they didn't listen.

The oasis event was a lagfest, but we totally should have just suck it up and played through that instead of running off to ebg.

Did you know haystacks wasn't in at release? it was put in 6 months after when wvw was on it's death door. "You're welcome" - The Complainers.

Oh noes, some customers don't like what you made, you should totally just ignore them for 5 years after instead of trying to improve your product for said customers. I dunno but maybe people would be happier to buy gems for some cosmetics to support the game more, if they bothered to read the forums, listened for a change, make some changes, even qol stuff, but no, just totally ignore them, and give your game a bad reputation on the competitive side, that's totally good for business I'm sure. "Hay guys you're totally a cornerstone, plz by gaems expansion soon okies?" Yeeeeeeah, good luck with that.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Xenesis.6389
dunno why I said 7 years, it's been 5 years since any real wvw development

[roederich.2716]

11 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

🙄

Yeah we totally shouldn't complain.

There was feedback for the map in it's beta's btw, they didn't listen.

The oasis event was a lagfest, but we totally should have just suck it up and played through that instead of running off to ebg.

Did you know haystacks wasn't in at release? it was put in 6 months after when wvw was on it's death door. "You're welcome" - The Complainers.

Oh noes, some customers don't like what you made, you should totally just ignore them for 7 years after instead of trying to improve your product for said customers. I dunno but maybe people would be happier to buy gems for some cosmetics to support the game more, if they bothered to read the forums, listened for a change, make some changes, even qol stuff, but no, just totally ignore them, and give your game a bad reputation on the competitive side, that's totally good for business I'm sure. "Hay guys you're totally a cornerstone, plz by gaems expansion soon okies?" Yeeeeeeah, good luck with that.

 

i spare myself now any comment about the beta test of desert border which was streamed by the blacktide streamer girl. I dont comment on this cause she already left the game it would not be fair…

So I am talking about what is now the case.

still today people call the map out for not being able to travel fast enough and these people dont know what the shrines do, ask them next time they pest the air in your teamchat again and you will be surprised. These are all the little rambos who are influenced by the  gvg guilds players on their server who generally decline everything which doesnt look like an flat arena…. These „elite“ find something s.h.i.t. and it gets common opinion on the server in 90% of the pugs who then make the forums rambo here.

[Xenesis.6389]

I would guess most people don't care about shrines cause you need all 3 for fast travel, more often than not one is capped which breaks it. They don't even have RI timers showing on the map for them. Also they're like ruins, no one but roamers pay attention to them. The map has more problems than just travel, which for the most part has been taken cared of with the warclaw.

Let's get one thing straight here, this isn't some one sided affair where the community is the problem for this lack of a relationship with anet. Anet is just as well responsible for not taking care of wvw, not listening to the majority of players and only to the elitist guilds, stringing along it's players with promises of WR system and catchphrases, ignoring them for very long periods of time. It's a two way street, they want the love and praise? then put in the work for it, you can't expect to get any by totally ignoring those customers.

Lastly, they get way more complaints in pve, yet still focus on pve content, it isn't about the complaints, it's more about where the money is, and for anet that's new pve players, everything else will take a back seat, even veteran players.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Valfar.3761]

One of the reasons why my interest in WvW dwindled was that I could only stare at the same alpine environment or boring desert for so long before I just couldn't stomach it anymore. A Canthan WvW map would go a long way to revitalize interest in WvW.

[Mabi black.1824]

I must say that you all have your reasons and good intentions for what you have written and for what I read. each one in its own way. I also want to add that GW2 is really a good product, complete, articulated, challenging and fun. Like all things that must endure, it constantly needs love from development. Especially if you want to keep it at the top and always green, you have to take time to take care of it. 

If your problem becomes a matter of income, find your solution. As you upgrade and take care of the mode, add everything you need so your players can spend their money on whatever you want to add.

Advice, the mode can be played at best with what all players have available, if in the future added specializations of Elit or if you ever add a new skill for each class (we had so many in GW) charge them. Players who want them will pay $10 to buy them, and so on for anything new.

If you want to see your WWW players grow, if you also see a great potential of this mode you must constantly take care of it.

We need new maps, we need new animations, we need seasonal events, we need official tournaments to play and climb, we need a constant control work on the class balance, we need a working group to fix bugs, we need a working group that verifies strange behavior of reported or ill-intentioned players , we need your representative to take the time in this section of the forum, etc etc

You need many things, and if you need budget to do them, invent any way to get it, you will still be supported by many players and fans.

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[Gorani.7205]

9 hours ago, roederich.2716 said:

So I am talking about what is now the case.

still today people call the map out for not being able to travel fast enough and these people dont know what the shrines do, ask them next time they pest the air in your teamchat again and you will be surprised. These are all the little rambos who are influenced by the  gvg guilds players on their server who generally decline everything which doesnt look like an flat arena…. These „elite“ find something s.h.i.t. and it gets common opinion on the server in 90% of the pugs who then make the forums rambo here.

exactly this ...

I wish I got a skirmish ticket for every forum post that wants DBL deleted and/or replaced by Alpine again.

 

@Xenesis.6389 Laser event was very likely horribly programmed, so it made everyone lag on the map, because computing the data of the event slowed everything down. Would it have been a good strategic element if it worked as intended? We will never know. Barricades have been a problem in the original design, because you could only damage them with siege (and it required siege to be build way more often, just to reach a structure), these days they could all be torn down with the Warclaw chain pull skill and would hardly slow down map movement any more. I don't want to have the barricades back, because I think they blocked too much. The map changes the Devs have made to give us more opening to Fire & Air Keeps allow easier siege placement and way more paths to travel. So they listened to the players complaining about locked paths and created (together with the shrine options) a multitude of ways to travel to and past objectives.

I just wish people could accept that every type of map has a different focus and allow people to play where they think they have most fun:
EBG - short distances to structures, which can all be used to launch attack son the next structure, shared goal to hold "SMC", relative balance between all three forces in all directions
Alpine - medium distances to structures, distinct "keeps" to each side, towers control paths and can be the source of either defense or offence on next keep of path; home garrison is a vital "travel hub"
Desert - travelling distances are depended on possessing shrines  and/or which server has control over the section and vary between short and long; towers are stand alone structures with very little control; placing siege at viable spots is most diverse

[Xenesis.6389]

Shrines don't even solve the travel problems on the entire map, there's none to travel between the south sides, if you spawn at earth keep you're in the middle of the north travel lane and don't need it, if you spawn at citadel you're already coming out at the sides of it as there is no reason to even run to the middle earth shrine to jump to the side ones.

Like if you're in air keep and need to get to fire keep for a defense it's probably quicker to just respawn at those two waypoints and run to it, rather than run from air keep to the earth shrine to port across, if you even have all three by the time you get to it, factors like that don't make them useful for anyone but roamers. The barricades could be taken down with a zerg without siege, which pretty much made them pointless, and more of a hinderance to roamers especially condition ones (I remember this well having tried to take down one solo on a core necro condition build in the beta).

Oh and let's not forget, waypoints weren't even at the side keeps to begin with, they were at the south towers, which made it extremely difficult for the home team to hold both those towers and the side keeps, another "complaint" that got fixed.

Instead of shrines they would have been better off putting in nuhoch wallows, or skritt tunnels for travel instead, but they didn't have territories yet so I understand why they placed them as shrines instead, as well as encourage some ruin type fights, which is practically none existent now anyways. It's something they should revisit now with territories in place, allowing the side owning the territory have 100% access to the tunnels without the possibility of losing it through shrines would work much better.

Overall they forgot the essence of the old maps, having objectives connected and travel was light in order to get back to fights in a decent time, ewp is extremely useful in desert, and warclaw has solved some of the travel issues. But lets not pretend shrines are bullet trains that solved the entire travel issue of desert bl, they are still situational on when to bother using them.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[The Raven.1320]

They did recently fix one exploit at Fire Keep, but there's still more that haven't been addressed. Can we get the mini-map at Fire Keep fixed this century? 

 

Complaints aside I vastly prefer DBL for roaming/havoc and sneaky gameplay. The size and the complexity of the map are ideal for this. Contrary to the to Alpine BLs and EBG where responders show up near kitten instantly, or if you're already fighting the respawns get back much faster. I genuinely wish the Alpine BLs were the same size as desert. They were designed in a time where Anet was only just beginning of have wet dreams of selling Warclaw skins on the store. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

We need a replacement for one of the ABLs if not both at this point. +1 from me here on budget for maps.

[Xenesis.6389]

50 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

We need a replacement for one of the ABLs if not both at this point. +1 from me here on budget for maps.

Hard NO.

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Hard NO.

 

No worries, went more extreme than I normally would to make a point that some of us really don't like ABL after all this time. I doubt they would swap out both but the point is we need new maps or another map making it 5 to give more variety of play. Hit ABL when they need help at home or if EBG and DBL are both queued but ...

[Xenesis.6389]

Btw if anyone thinks I'm just a grump ole fart that hates everything that comes out of anet and complains about everything... I've praised and thanked Anet many times when they did put in the work on wvw. I've made many suggestions, I like to think I even had a small part in getting the objective wall/gate health percentages implemented from a qol thread I put up. Or when they swapped the guild auras +5 supply from t8 with the t1 magic find one, from one of the suggestions I had posted.

Or when my direct suggestion to make redbl the desert bl and the other two alpines (god I'm gonna get crucified now from the alpine and redbl peeps) Redbl = Desert Although both maps had it's supporters, the only real solution was to have them both running at the same time.

But you know, there's only so much of that you can do before you get tired talking to a brick wall, eventually you get cynical about the wvw situation and just make jokes cause there's nothing left to do.

Oh hey Grimm we talked a little about ebg back in the day too lol. Grimm and Xen discuss maps 🙂

[stormemperor.3745]

They don't pay enough that one guy doing all the work. They would rather pay to balance team to troll customers.

 

If there was an option to choose where our money goes to, I would choose that 1 guy doing all the work. I know that sleepless guy doing everything he can and receives 100 times less than he should.