The cd increase on true shot is holding dragonhunter back.

[zealex.9410]

Title, it still looks to be one of the lower bdnching especs rn meanwhile other builds received much more generous  buffs to their output. Not only is the cd increase very strongly limiting the effect of the true shot coef buff but the balance team should also consider allowing dh to move at a reduced speed while casting true shot.

 

Not to mention the old cd worked very well for a smooth and fun rotation, the new one feels horrible.

Edited November 30, 2022 by zealex.9410

[MagicBot.1570]

Even if they lowered it to 4s it would probably not be enough

[zealex.9410]

3 hours ago, MagicBot.1570 said:

Even if they lowered it to 4s it would probably not be enough

Prob true however it would feel less miserable.

[Tonsofchexmix.1402]

Our power buddies reaper and holosmith are leaving us in the dust. Happy for those builds but I'm not looking forward to DH being irrelevant for another three months.

 

Such a shame. I was really hoping they would go back on the CD change, even if it doesn't make up the power deficit at least the rotation wouldn't be completely borked.

 

Anet, please stop being so stingy with DH.

[Infusion.7149]

You must be joking about being "left in the dust", holosmith takes more skill to play than dragonhunter in any random group and reapers lose life force if you get any damage whatsoever. First the possible overheating issue, second the use of grenade kit in most meta builds (you can't use weapon swap key for kits), the heat management is much tighter as a mechanic than a spear of justice unless you play PBM (which makes you lose scholar uptime).

DH is still going to remain semi relevant even if it is not top DPS because of core guardian utilities (Sanctuary, "Stand Your Ground", "Advance" to name a few) and the pull on greatsword, think about where people mostly run it such as Conjured Amalagamate or in Deimos (with unnatural signet from Saul) before Firebrand was popular. If you are taking damage in Gorseval for example you can just use Litany of Wrath.

Should True Shot be changed back to 4s cooldown?  Maybe. However, how about not completely distorting reality about other specs to get buffs?

Edited November 30, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[otto.5684]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You must be joking about being "left in the dust", holosmith takes more skill to play than dragonhunter in any random group and reapers lose life force if you get any damage whatsoever. First the possible overheating issue, second the use of grenade kit in most meta builds (you can't use weapon swap key for kits), the heat management is much tighter as a mechanic than a spear of justice unless you play PBM (which makes you lose scholar uptime).

DH is still going to remain semi relevant even if it is not top DPS because of core guardian utilities (Sanctuary, "Stand Your Ground", "Advance" to name a few) and the pull on greatsword, think about where people mostly run it such as Conjured Amalagamate or in Deimos (with unnatural signet from Saul) before Firebrand was popular. If you are taking damage in Gorseval for example you can just use Litany of Wrath.

Should True Shot be changed back to 4s cooldown?  Maybe. However, how about not completely distorting reality about other specs to get buffs?

You are way off the mark here. As a starter, all classes have various utilities with various benefits. By no means is DH special here justifying it deal less damage than most other power builds. And I dunno why this needs to be constantly repeated, using none damage utilities 1) reduce… you damage 2) will probably be covered by support ally. The fact that DH has stability on some utility does not mean it should deal less damage than a build that does not.
 

Note I said DH, not guardian. Cuz guess what? Other guardian builds do deal more damage and have access to the same utilities. The issue being discussed here is purely related to DH. And yes, even with the recent buffs, DH is not doing well.

[MagicBot.1570]

@Infusion.7149 DH is by no means easier than Holo. Have played both extensively and DH is far trickier to play efficiently. You can also use weapon swap for kits, I would know since I've been posting condi engi benchmarks for years. @otto.5684is right in saying you are way off mark here

Edited November 30, 2022 by MagicBot.1570

[Infusion.7149]

2 hours ago, MagicBot.1570 said:

@Infusion.7149 DH is by no means easier than Holo. Have played both extensively and DH is far trickier to play efficiently. You can also use weapon swap for kits, I would know since I've been posting condi engi benchmarks for years. @otto.5684is right in saying you are way off mark here

You can't use weaponswap to enter a kit.

Plus the latest wingman numbers run counter to the claim that "DH is harder" (than condi engi no less, is this a sarcastic comment?) because even with the current "lower benchmarks" the actual performance by players is roughly on par with holo.

i.e. VG with +35% power bonus https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/vg
-- median DH is ~16.3K, median holo is 15K, reaper is 11K (due to the greens the life force is an issue obviously)
KC with 35% power bonus https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/kc
-- DH ~22K , Holo ~20.7K, reaper 17.7K
Gorseval https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/gors
-- DH 16.5K , holo 16.3K, reaper ~14.7K
MO "golem benchmark" https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/mo
-- DH 27K , Holo ~27.5K, reaper ~21K
Mai Trin strike https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/strike/mai
-- DH 13.4K , Holo ~12.1K, Reaper ~11.7K

I know you both have a guardian agenda (similar to some players who have a mechanist agenda...), but let's not bend the truth to suit that agenda to the point that comparing to REAPER is a thing.

Edit: also never has holo been stacked in the history of this game unless it is for memes, same for reaper.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[MagicBot.1570]

5 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You can't use weaponswap to enter a kit.

Plus the latest wingman numbers run counter to the claim that "DH is harder" (than condi engi no less, is this a sarcastic comment?) because even with the current "lower benchmarks" the actual performance by players is roughly on par with holo.

i.e. VG with +35% power bonus https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/vg
-- median DH is ~16.3K, median holo is 15K, reaper is 11K (due to the greens the life force is an issue obviously)
KC with 35% power bonus https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/kc
-- DH ~22K , Holo ~20.7K, reaper 17.7K
Gorseval https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/gors
-- DH 16.5K , holo 16.3K, reaper ~14.7K
MO "golem benchmark" https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/mo
-- DH 27K , Holo ~27.5K, reaper ~21K
Mai Trin strike https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/strike/mai
-- DH 13.4K , Holo ~12.1K, Reaper ~11.7K

I know you both have a guardian agenda (similar to some players who have a mechanist agenda...), but let's not bend the truth to suit that agenda to the point that comparing to REAPER is a thing.

Edit: also never has holo been stacked in the history of this game unless it is for memes, same for reaper.

I didn't compare condi engi and DH, only Holo. I also didn't say DH was harder than Holo, I said it was trickier to play efficiently, which is true

 

The data you're using is also just a couple dozen logs for each spec, since the patch came out two days ago. Besides, take gorseval for example; Cata is just 1k above both. But cata benches 8k higher than Holo and 10-11k higher than DH. Should that mean that we must leave its dps as it is, even though players are performing equally poorly on all of them? History says no.

Also what's with this criticism about having a guardian agenda? Are we just dropping the big words now 😅 am I part of a conspiracy too?

Edited December 1, 2022 by MagicBot.1570

[FtoPScrub.5476]

That's two consecutive PvE patches where the balance team has properly identified Dragonhunter as an unperforming spec, and two consecutive PvE patches where they have failed to address the issue. How many more is it going to take? How many people left feedback saying the balance team was being too conservative with DH and Reaper buffs, yet the patch has come and to the surprise of no one, and despite the last minute buffs to Reaper, both specs continue to underperform.

[quaniesan.8497]

you can tell the "balance" team play Engi and necros.  

[MagicBot.1570]

2 hours ago, FtoPScrub.5476 said:

That's two consecutive PvE patches where the balance team has properly identified Dragonhunter as an unperforming spec, and two consecutive PvE patches where they have failed to address the issue. How many more is it going to take? How many people left feedback saying the balance team was being too conservative with DH and Reaper buffs, yet the patch has come and to the surprise of no one, and despite the last minute buffs to Reaper, both specs continue to underperform.

Your comment on its own is a great summary of the situation. I completely agree and do hope that this can get the visibility it needs

Edited December 1, 2022 by MagicBot.1570

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, FtoPScrub.5476 said:

That's two consecutive PvE patches where the balance team has properly identified Dragonhunter as an unperforming spec, and two consecutive PvE patches where they have failed to address the issue. How many more is it going to take? How many people left feedback saying the balance team was being too conservative with DH and Reaper buffs, yet the patch has come and to the surprise of no one, and despite the last minute buffs to Reaper, both specs continue to underperform.

Dragon Hunter is Guardian Low Intensity Build. 

I think every Guardian player will just have to face the fact that Dragon Hunter will never be a top DPS with its playstyle being the way it is. 

Your only hope is that the next elite has a more complex playstyle which is more rewarding to play DPS. I guess Willbender could be that one day.

[MagicBot.1570]

3 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Dragon Hunter is Guardian Low Intensity Build. 

I think every Guardian player will just have to face the fact that Dragon Hunter will never be a top DPS with its playstyle being the way it is. 

Your only hope is that the next elite has a more complex playstyle which is more rewarding to play DPS. I guess Willbender could be that one day.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong

 

[zealex.9410]

5 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Dragon Hunter is Guardian Low Intensity Build. 

I think every Guardian player will just have to face the fact that Dragon Hunter will never be a top DPS with its playstyle being the way it is. 

Your only hope is that the next elite has a more complex playstyle which is more rewarding to play DPS. I guess Willbender could be that one day.

Yet im not seeing nearly as many dh players reach near benchmark numbers as pmechs, not a jab at pmech i think that build was fine even pre patch but saying dh is the low intensity build is not true.

[otto.5684]

6 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Dragon Hunter is Guardian Low Intensity Build. 

I think every Guardian player will just have to face the fact that Dragon Hunter will never be a top DPS with its playstyle being the way it is. 

Your only hope is that the next elite has a more complex playstyle which is more rewarding to play DPS. I guess Willbender could be that one day.

All builds are low intensity builds, for all classes. The idea that my class is special, hard to play butterfly, is a myth.

 

I agree that DH would not be top dps, cuz it has high burst and strong aoe. however, it is still under performing.
 

 

[DarkSoul.2348]

Dh need love and guardian as a whole only recently got into to making alts because i wanted achv and to try some others out, and guardian is feeling left behind, and too vanilla atm, and recent Fb well doesn't help at all.My main issues with the class in general now is that elite specs offer not enough the weapons either hardly taken because core is a better choice, 

Elite Guardian new weapons Bow Axe and Off hand sword 

Elite Guardian building  feels pushed to use anything but those new weapon skills for some reason. 

After playing blade sworn and seeing how the traits have been updated with flow etc makes me sad for my willbender that seems to have difficulty picking traits or just dead traits all together that give me less combinations to play with not to mention so many other little nitpicks i have with the spec not feeling exciting enough. Healing matters too and rn dont feel like much of a guardian i honestly dont care about being top dps i care about smooth exciting fun gameplay that's immersive and makes me feel like the class and spec i have chosen with freedom and flexibility to create new and fun builds to play for my chosen class. Please show this Class some Love soon.

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

Yet im not seeing nearly as many dh players reach near benchmark numbers as pmechs, not a jab at pmech i think that build was fine even pre patch but saying dh is the low intensity build is not true.

Well they are currently nerfing Mechanist so your wish has come true. I'm sure more nerfs for that Elite are on its way too. 

[zealex.9410]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Well they are currently nerfing Mechanist so your wish has come true. I'm sure more nerfs for that Elite are on its way too. 

This isnt about nerfing anything. (altho prob every spec should get nerfed because the game is getting power crept again.

[Funky.4861]

I haven't played dh in years. It's just a non-cohesive meme spec imo. Why? It's clearly aimed at playing solo (read: it's group-unfriendly), but doesn't have the sustain against anything higher than an elite mob.

[FtoPScrub.5476]

Over a week since patch and my opinion has not changed. DH still mediocre and power willbender a complete meme. Just a really lame experience. 2+ years with condi dominating guard DPS builds and still nothing changes...

[Gehenna.3625]

I enjoy playing DH as a class, but I think that the reason why we feel that CD on true shot is too high is because the auto-attack is so weak, particularly against single targets. Longbow skill 3 isn't about damage and neither is skill 5. Skill 4 is a small aoe that could be useful for combo's against static enemies.

All in all the whole set of longbow skills for DH isn't great for damage dealing. It's nice to have a KB with skill 3 but it's too clunky in reality and easy to dodge in competitive modes. There just isn't much DPS on that bow. And since true shot means you have to stand still to use it, I much prefer they made skill 1 better against single targets. Like maybe if you only hit one target it does double damage or something like that.

I dunno, just my opinion.

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 11/30/2022 at 1:18 PM, Tonsofchexmix.1402 said:

reaper leaving us in the dust

Now that's just comically untrue lol.

[MagicBot.1570]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:46 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

You can't use weaponswap to enter a kit.

Plus the latest wingman numbers run counter to the claim that "DH is harder" (than condi engi no less, is this a sarcastic comment?) because even with the current "lower benchmarks" the actual performance by players is roughly on par with holo.

i.e. VG with +35% power bonus https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/vg
-- median DH is ~16.3K, median holo is 15K, reaper is 11K (due to the greens the life force is an issue obviously)
KC with 35% power bonus https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/kc
-- DH ~22K , Holo ~20.7K, reaper 17.7K
Gorseval https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/gors
-- DH 16.5K , holo 16.3K, reaper ~14.7K
MO "golem benchmark" https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/raid/mo
-- DH 27K , Holo ~27.5K, reaper ~21K
Mai Trin strike https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/strike/mai
-- DH 13.4K , Holo ~12.1K, Reaper ~11.7K

I know you both have a guardian agenda (similar to some players who have a mechanist agenda...), but let's not bend the truth to suit that agenda to the point that comparing to REAPER is a thing.

Edit: also never has holo been stacked in the history of this game unless it is for memes, same for reaper.

Holo is 2 to 7k higher than DH on every boss now, by the way. It's almost as if the data was too inconsistent a few days after the patch to make assumptions based on it

 

I still stand by my point that DH is in an embarrassing state

[zealex.9410]

On 12/9/2022 at 1:08 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

I enjoy playing DH as a class, but I think that the reason why we feel that CD on true shot is too high is because the auto-attack is so weak, particularly against single targets. Longbow skill 3 isn't about damage and neither is skill 5. Skill 4 is a small aoe that could be useful for combo's against static enemies.

All in all the whole set of longbow skills for DH isn't great for damage dealing. It's nice to have a KB with skill 3 but it's too clunky in reality and easy to dodge in competitive modes. There just isn't much DPS on that bow. And since true shot means you have to stand still to use it, I much prefer they made skill 1 better against single targets. Like maybe if you only hit one target it does double damage or something like that.

I dunno, just my opinion.

I dislile the icrease in cb because you could snug in 3 per weapon swap which felt good but also because true shot has 1500 range and getting more out waa veey nice for when you needed to move out.