Tired Of Pepega Invuln Design Classes

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Again, by your logic there is not a single invuln in the game you can't attack during.

Yes! that is EXACTLY the point here.   We have a winner!    Every class could use instantskills, but you someone claimed that ele cant.

i just wanted to make clear that you can indeed cast skill during an Invuln.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Someone was upset about forum beign flooded with gold1-2 players and their suggestion. 

And here we are having plat2+ players mocking each other in this thread.

PvP is more alive in the forum than the game. You thought it was "player vs player", it's "poster vs poster" 

[Sahne.6950]

8 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

It has nothing to do with "your class".

Meta ele doesn't do that. It's just not a big problem in the game currently at all. 

.....no one said, that offensive skills during invulns are the big problem here....I have no clue what your on about...   You are essnetialy nitpicking on peoples stuff, ripping everthing out of context, while at the same time complelty ignoring the actual topic.

Its about invulns ignoring half the mechanics and having no counterplay but to wait them out.

Your just here to argue and vote confused are you?

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

I agree, but you are the one who wrote a multiple paragraph seething post supposedly calling me out for not knowing that you can use certain instant skills during animations and that pulsing effects remain after you invuln, thinking you were actually doing something

because you said that eles cant use skill during a invuln... which is just plain wrong..

as you noticed yourself...  EVERY CLASS can do it.  

 

"Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it"  

I cant let you run around just talking nonsense man...  i named numerous skills that you can transition into invuln, and things that you can activate even during fortify. I was trying to get some knowledge across.

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

I bet you have though.

i bet i dont.  I could add cry to your posts to prove. its getting really immature right now...

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Just now, Sahne.6950 said:

i bet i dont. watch me put "cry on every of your posts" 😛

You do what you like

Edited December 14, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

That's exactly, specifically, what you did in this post https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/125438-tired-of-pepega-invuln-design-classes/page/5/#comment-1818293 which is what started this argument in the first place.

ah yes... i nitpicked and i ripped things out of context... ithought i quoted the whole thing... but i guess i did rip it out of context.

Your simply talking nonsens if your saying that ele can use skills during invulns...   thats not nitpicking, your just talking nonsense...

With Nitpicking i  mean that i:

mention over 6 things that you can do during your 2 diffrent invulns. 

You: But this 1 specific thing  wont work with this 1 specific invuln,  GO ASK XXX... they will tell you the same.. 

Your complelty ignoring everything else thats being said, you jump on the first thing you think isnt right . Your just picking on tiny bits of peoples posts, while completly ignoring everything you dont want to hear.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Avead.5760]

This Sahne guy literally thinks he is an ele master because he got once plat.. in 10games per season playing one of the most pointless builds ele. His view of the game is distorted and he literally gets a kick off of flooding each thread with his opinions. It's hilarious 😂

Sorry couldnt resist posting. Ban me for personally attacking people lol

Edited December 14, 2022 by Avead.5760

[Arheundel.6451]

5 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Not even Trevor Boyer agrees with you, considering he said "Vindicator is tanky and does have a lot of defenses, but it has no actual invulnerability and when it defenses all of its defenses are animations, which means it cannot offense while defensing". You are quite simply either deliberately obtuse or just dumb. Everyone understands what I said.

If it wasn't clear by now......you're talking to biased individuals who are simply reading off the wiki.....

Edited December 14, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[Sahne.6950]

On 12/14/2022 at 2:37 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

If it wasn't clear by now......you're talking to biased individuals that are simply reading off the wiki.....

An Ele player telling you how unfun Ele Invulns are....  GOD, I AM SO BIASED.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Terrorhuz.4695]

10 minutes ago, Avead.5760 said:

things

Unrude yourself young lad, this is a nice forum. Real rebels always make their moms proud, and your mother wouldn't be proud of you being mean on the internet.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

blinds lasting 5s instead of 1-2s was a mistake

Blind projectiles was a mistake, but then maybe smoke fields in general.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

PvP is more alive in the forum than the game. You thought it was "player vs player", it's "poster vs poster" 

This is the way.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

3 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Not even Trevor Boyer agrees with you, considering he said "Vindicator is tanky and does have a lot of defenses, but it has no actual invulnerability and when it defenses all of its defenses are animations, which means it cannot offense while defensing". You are quite simply either deliberately obtuse or just dumb. Everyone understands what I said.

1. No one was talking about Vindicator. It was an argument about Ele.
2. My quote about Vindicator is completely irrelevent to the argument about Ele.
3. @Sahne.6950 was explaining to you how instant skills can be cast while invulning and how Eles can cast elongated AoE DPS effects stacked on top of each other, and then go into an invuln or block while sitting in the AoE DPS so it deals attrition damage to the player on the node with them while they are invulning or blocking. This offensive pressure and the invuln/blocking frames are happening simultaneously at the same time.
4. Agri says: Go ask Boyce or Naru or Zeromis or Grimjack or Drazeh or whoever else "Can you attack during Earth Shield #5 invuln?" - This is more misrepresentation. No one said anything about being able to push attack animations while using the #5 invuln or earth shield #5 invuln. It has been stated several times now that Ele's ability to offense while defensing is in its ability to precast elongated animations and then proceed to enter the invuln or block, alongside of plainly stacking many small effects that equate to virtual invulnerability that it can sit in and then begin using attack skills. Stop trying to misrepresent everything that everyone says to you.
5.  Agri says: You tried to make it seem as if a pulsing effect/field remaining when you invuln is the same thing as actually being able to channel skills during invuln. - No, you are the only one who interpreted it that way. Sahne was explaining the same thing that I just explained in bullet 3, and that instant cast skills can be used at any time. Clearly he meant nothing more and nothing less. Reread it.
6. Sahne says: ".....no one said, that offensive skills during invulns are the big problem here....I have no clue what your on about..." and then Argi responds by quoting me: "Vindicator is tanky and does have a lot of defenses, but it has no actual invulnerability and when it defenses all of its defenses are animations, which means it cannot offense while defensing. The builds I am referencing in this thread are the builds in the game that can simultaneously offense while defensing" - This is being taken compleeeeeetely out of context. Agri are you paying attention? Sahne is responding to you in the context of what this thread discussion is actually about, trying to redirect you back to the topic discussion. But you then quote me as if the quote disproves Sahne's statement, but you've taken my quote completely out of context. In fact, that quote was originally stated in response to YOU when you asked me: "What ele build are you talking about, hammer cata? I don't know why you would neglect mentioning vindi or even tools holo. The quote about Vindicator was to explain to you why Vindicator was different and had nothing to do with this thread discussion. The context of that quote had absolutely nothing to do with any statement concerning offensing while defensing being a problem.

I'm not sure if you possess the inner self reflection to be able to see how intrinsically convoluted & wrong your logic is behind everything you've said and tried to create arguments around, but I can only ask you to please bow out of what was otherwise a constructive thread discussion before you showed up.

If you are being serious and not trolling, you need to work on your forum conduct and general comprehension skills. Like 90% of everything you say and attempt to create arguments around is taken completely out of context, isn't even sensical, and is pure logical fallacy. You probably think I'm just trying to throw dirt at you here but I'm being serious.

Take some time to GOOGLE search: logical fallacies. Read about it.

~ Good luck man.

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

1. No one was talking about Vindicator. It was an argument about Ele.

In that very quote you say that because the defenses are animations, it cannot offense while defensing. Quote: "its defenses are animations, which means it cannot offense while defensing". That line of argument means that you think the fact that the defenses are animations means you cannot do offense while defensing (which I in essence agreed with). Nothing in this line of argument is exclusive to Vindicator.

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

2. My quote about Vindicator is completely irrelevent to the argument about Ele.

No. See above.

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

3. @Sahne.6950 was explaining to you how instant skills can be cast while invulning and how Eles can cast elongated AoE DPS effects stacked on top of each other, and then go into an invuln or block while sitting in the AoE DPS so it deals attrition damage to the player on the node with them while they are invulning or blocking. This offensive pressure and the invuln/blocking frames are happening simultaneously at the same time.

Yes, every class can cast pulsing or delayed effects and go invulnerable. Another example, scrapper Shredder Gyro -> Elixir S. Everyone knows this and this is obviously not what I was talking about when I said that ele doesn't have invulnerability that it can attack during (unlike Mesmer or unlike ele before 2020 when they changed Obsidian Flesh).

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

4. Agri says: Go ask Boyce or Naru or Zeromis or Grimjack or Drazeh or whoever else "Can you attack during Earth Shield #5 invuln?" - This is more misrepresentation. No one said anything about being able to push attack animations while using the #5 invuln or earth shield #5 invuln.

No. What I said, specifically, which Sahne responded to, was, "Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it". I'm telling you (or him) to go ask about exactly this to any decent player of your choice and they will say the same thing I did. This is not controversial in the least.

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

5. It has been stated several times now that Ele's ability to offense while defensing is in its ability to precast elongated animations and then proceed to enter the invuln or block, alongside of plainly stacking many small effects that equate to virtual invulnerability that it can sit in and then begin using attack skills. Stop trying to misrepresent everything that everyone says to you.

I didn't, Sahne did, as I outlined above. I have never ever ever ever disagreed that pulsing effects (for instance) remain while invuln. This is the case on every class.

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

6. Agri says: You tried to make it seem as if a pulsing effect/field remaining when you invuln is the same thing as actually being able to channel skills during invuln. - No, you are the only one who interpreted it that way. Sahne was explaining the same thing that I just explained in bullet 3, and that instant cast skills can be used at any time. Clearly he meant nothing more and nothing less. Reread it.

Incorrect. Again, my statement was "Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it" which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with things like pulsing effects remaining when you enter invuln.

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

7. Sahne says: ".....no one said, that offensive skills during invulns are the big problem here....I have no clue what your on about..." and then Argi responds by quoting me: "Vindicator is tanky and does have a lot of defenses, but it has no actual invulnerability and when it defenses all of its defenses are animations, which means it cannot offense while defensing. The builds I am referencing in this thread are the builds in the game that can simultaneously offense while defensing" - This is being taken compleeeeeetely out of context. Agri are you paying attention? Sahne is responding to you in the context of what this thread discussion is actually about, trying to redirect you back to the topic discussion. But you then quote me as if the quote disproves Sahne's statement, but you've taken my quote completely out of context. In fact, that quote was originally stated in response to YOU when you asked me: "What ele build are you talking about, hammer cata? I don't know why you would neglect mentioning vindi or even tools holo. The quote about Vindicator was to explain to you why Vindicator was different and had nothing to do with this thread discussion. The context of that quote had absolutely nothing to do with any statement concerning offensing while defensing being a problem.

No. Let's break it down. Your statement "Vindicator is tanky and does have a lot of defenses, but it has no actual invulnerability and when it defenses all of its defenses are animations, which means it cannot offense while defensing." says that

1. Vindicator is tanky

2. But Vindicator is different than the builds I am targeting in this thread

3. Because unlike the builds I am targeting in this thread, its defenses are animations

4. Which means it cannot offense while defensing.

In other words, Vindicator is separated from the builds you are targeting because it cannot offense while defensing. This contradicts Sahnes statement of "no one said that offensive skills during invulns are the big problem here" (notice the "no one". Clearly, somebody does care, you, seeing as it is part of your reason for why Vindicator is inherently different from the builds you are targeting (Cata/Mesmer). If you aim to portray Vindicator as separate from the builds you are targeting because it cannot offense while defensing because its defenses are animation, and I disagree with this, then I have to engage with that argument. Sahne complains about this and thinks it is irrelevant - most probably because he didn't read your post where you bring it up. If anything he should be telling you that it isn't relevant - you are the one who brought it up.

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'm not sure if you possess the inner self reflection to be able to see how intrinsically convoluted & wrong your logic is behind everything you've said and tried to create arguments around, but I can only ask you to please bow out of what was otherwise a constructive thread discussion before you showed up.

You seem like a fundamentally illogical person. See above, as an example.

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

If you are being serious and not trolling, you need to work on your forum conduct and general comprehension skills.

Means nothing

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Like 90% of everything you say and attempt to create arguments around is taken completely out of context,

They are direct quotes

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

isn't even sensical, and is pure logical fallacy.

You probably think I'm just trying to throw dirt at you here but I'm being serious.

Take some time to GOOGLE search: logical fallacies. Read about it.

~ Good luck man.

Which logical fallacy/fallacies are you invoking specifically?

Also, this is beside the point, but "sensical" isn't a word. You are probably looking for sensible.

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[bethekey.8314]

Mamma mia, this thread is golden now. It's like watching a first year graduate student melt down before my very eyes.

 

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

 "Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it".

I'm telling you (or him) to go ask about exactly this to any decent player of your choice and they will say the same thing I did.

This is not controversial in the least.

What your saying isnt controversial at all buddy. /s 😉

i think i really need to go and ask a decent player of my choice../s  🤡

 

Or.... instead of asking him, you can watch me kill the decent player, with the exact same thing you told us is impossible!

I use a pepega invuln and while i am already in the invuln i start casting attacks that kill him.

your telling me i have  to ask a decent player... but here i am... doing the impossible.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

48 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

What your saying isnt controversial at all buddy. /s 😉

i think i really need to go and ask a decent player../s  🤡

 

Or you could simply watch me kill your average Gizmo wielder, with the exact thing your told us is impossible.  I use a pepega invuln and while i am already in the invuln i start casting attacks that kill him.

your telling us we have no clue and need to ask a decent player... but here i am... doing it.

This isnt controversial at all. /s 🤡

You casted one single instant skill, Hurl (which did not kill him by the way), and which meta Cata cannot do (because it doesn't run focus so you only have the earth shield #5 invuln), and which isn't relevant anyway because what I mean by "Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it" is that it locks you in an animation while casting it. I did not ask you to prove that you can use instant skills during other animations, everybody knows that and absolutely nobody disagrees, I asked you to ask any decent player this: "Does Ele [or Cata if you wish] invuln let you attack during it?" The answer is going to be "no".

Edit: but this is a pointless discussion, we can solve it by simply acknowledging that we interpreted different things (as did the people who liked the comment) from the statement "Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it". We don't actually disagree on anything material.

Edited December 14, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

my statement was "Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it"

 

58 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

I asked you to ask any decent player this: "Does Cata [or Ele if you wish] invuln let you attack during it?"

your confusing to say the least.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

10 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

your confusing to say the least.

i think what you mean is:  can you cast skills during Fortify.  The answer would be no. 

But you are saying invuln.  and your saying ELE.        do you see how thats confusing?

I did not mean just Fortify because you can use instant offensive skills during Fortify as well. For instance you use Arcane Blast.

But yeah, see the edit on my previous comment.

Edited December 14, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Sahne.6950]

54 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Sorry, I added an edit to my comment after you saw it, you can go back and check if you want.

What do you mean "you are saying invuln"?

Oh yeah keep editing stuff... you even edited the part where you are talking about editing the other part...

i wont read any of this btw... you dont have to change stuff... i wont go back up this post and read it again.

i read what i read and i answered to what you wrote initially.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

2 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Oh yeah keep editing stuff...

i wont read any of this btw... you dont have to change stuff... i wont go back up this post and read it again.

i read what i read and i answered to what you wrote initially.

I'm used to being able to spot errors in my writing and edit after because typically people don't read or reply instantly, I'll be more careful. Ok, I'll post it again:

"This is a pointless discussion, we can solve it by simply acknowledging that we interpreted different things (as did the people who liked the comment) from the statement "Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it". We don't actually disagree on anything material."

[Sahne.6950]

what are you talking about man... 😵

 

you told us: Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it.        i proved you wrong....

and suddenly you are starting to edit things. You are literally changing things trying to look better.

What a joke.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Koensol.5860]

6 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Yes! that is EXACTLY the point here.   We have a winner!    Every class could use instantskills, but you someone claimed that ele cant.

i just wanted to make clear that you can indeed cast skill during an Invuln.

God you're dramatic. Maybe stop putting words and full sentences in ALL CAPS with exclamation signs and stop using unnecessary and patronizing one liners to belittle another poster and make yourself sound clever and superior. Maybe then other posters will not get so defensive with you. Literally everyone here understands what he meant with "not being able to use skills while invuln", as it is a different kind of invuln as for example distortion. Same difference between a channeled block and the guardian focus 5 block. Literally everyone gets this principle, yet you decide to fully tunnel vision on the words "using skills" and create another unnecessary argument about semantics. Come on man. Let me tell you, if you get off your high horse and just say what you want to say, while leaving out all the dramatic filler, you'll be amazed at how fast things will cool down. We all just want to have/read discussions that have substance. Not read a self aggrandizing novel.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Koensol.5860

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

3 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

what are you talking about man... 😵

 

you told us: Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it.        i proved you wrong....

 

and suddenly you are doing this!  

"This is a pointless discussion, we can solve it by simply acknowledging that we interpreted different things (as did the people who liked the comment) from the statement "Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it". We don't actually disagree on anything material."

 

 

WHAT A JOKE.

Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it

My claim is that the common interpretation of the statement "Ele doesn't have invuln that lets you attack during it" is that Ele invuln locks you in an animation so you cannot channel other skills, as opposed to Distortion where you can channel other skills and attack as normal. I would say that "Mesmer has invuln that lets you attack during it". That's why I implored you to ask other people "Does Ele have invuln that you can attack during?" in order to confirm or deny if this is the common interpretation.

But yes, this discussion is in fact pointless because it is strictly about definitions and interpretation and doesn't relate to anything material.

Edited December 14, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741