Please return deadeye to previous state

[Rogue Sol.1457]

I don't post on these forums almost at all, but the recent change to Deadeye has made the class play much worse than it did before. Before when kneel was stationary not being able to move HELPED. When you were in trouble you could come out of kneel in two ways, by hitting 5 again, or by dodge rolling. By dodge rolling to break kneel I could get mobile again and reposition as needed. Now with kneel as it is, I've run into several cases where I dodge roll and am still walking in the kneel state. This is a big problem because I have a toggle walk too. I can't tell when my walking is because of the kneel state or the walking toggle. The slow rate at which we move too doesn't help. Deadeye feels like a slow and clunky thief, which isn't what you want in a spec that's a fragile DPS. Please, at least return Deadeye to its previous state, as things are right now it's very awkward, confusing and generally much weaker than it should be.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Rogue Sol.1457

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Its fine now, it sounds like an adaptability issue on your end. Only issues i have are deaths retreat works fine uo and down stairs but advance wont work

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

3 hours ago, Rogue Sol.1457 said:

Now with kneel as it is, I've run into several cases where I dodge roll and am still walking in the kneel state. This is a big problem because I have a toggle walk too. I can't tell when my walking is because of the kneel state or the walking toggle.

Why would you ever toggle RP walk?

1. If you are pressing it by accident then maybe rebind that button to a different key. I have RP walk changed to ',' which is right beside action cam toggle for me '.' .... out of sight, out of mind.

2. If you look at your skills their icons change in kneel and if you stop moving your character kneels.

3. You don't really need to exit kneel in PvE content while in combat unless you are switching to melee weapons (dagger/dagger does a ton of damage). You can kneel walk out of most stuff and dodge or jump if you really need it.

3 hours ago, Rogue Sol.1457 said:

The slow rate at which we move too doesn't help.

If you had no trouble seeing mechanics from before when you were completely immobile why is it harder when there is a much higher degree of movement?

3 hours ago, Rogue Sol.1457 said:

I don't post on these forums almost at all, but the recent change to Deadeye has made the class play much worse than it did before. Before when kneel was stationary not being able to move HELPED. When you were in trouble you could come out of kneel in two ways, by hitting 5 again, or by dodge rolling.

 

3 hours ago, Rogue Sol.1457 said:

Deadeye feels like a slow and clunky thief, which isn't what you want in a spec that's a fragile DPS. Please, at least return Deadeye to its previous state, as things are right now it's very awkward, confusing and generally much weaker than it should be.

I think it is way better now. You aren't forced out of kneel as often and, you can jump AND in kneel they added death's advance which is the opposite of death's retreat, but involves staying in kneel. It's very usable in PvP/WvW granted if it isn't under 600 units pointing to a wall or up steep stairs (Death's Advance has some kinks right now -_-'). I used Death's Advance to escape a zerg the other day. It was great.

I am a thief main. In my opinion I always thought the old kneel was clunky, frustrating and very un-thief like in my eyes. Thief to me is all about fluid movement and repositioning in stealth. It now feels much better in content where you have to constantly move. It flows very nicely. I am crafting predator next just because deadeye is so much fun now. You can also take advantage of the knew kneel to flank more often too!

Edited December 19, 2022 by ZeroTheRuler.7415
clarity

[Chips.7968]

I de-bound walk toggle from accidentally hitting it in fights and dying. Suggest you do to 😉 Or put it on a toggle key far far away from everything else used in combat (like "]" ).

The dodge out just sounds like you require a time for muscle memory adapting. It'll come, persevere. When i rebound my dodge roll key, it took weeks of disaster fights before muscle memory adapted. Painful at the time, but necessary in the long run.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Chips.7968

[kash.9213]

13 hours ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

Why would you ever toggle RP walk?

1. If you are pressing it by accident then maybe rebind that button to a different key. I have RP walk changed to ',' which is right beside action cam toggle for me '.' .... out of sight, out of mind.

2. If you look at your skills their icons change in kneel and if you stop moving your character kneels.

3. You don't really need to exit kneel in PvE content while in combat unless you are switching to melee weapons (dagger/dagger does a ton of damage). You can kneel walk out of most stuff and dodge or jump if you really need it.

If you had no trouble seeing mechanics from before when you were completely immobile why is it harder when there is a much higher degree of movement?

 

I think it is way better now. You aren't forced out of kneel as often and, you can jump AND in kneel they added death's advance which is the opposite of death's retreat, but involves staying in kneel. It's very usable in PvP/WvW granted if it isn't under 600 units pointing to a wall or up steep stairs (Death's Advance has some kinks right now -_-'). I used Death's Advance to escape a zerg the other day. It was great.

I am a thief main. In my opinion I always thought the old kneel was clunky, frustrating and very un-thief like in my eyes. Thief to me is all about fluid movement and repositioning in stealth. It now feels much better in content where you have to constantly move. It flows very nicely. I am crafting predator next just because deadeye is so much fun now. You can also take advantage of the knew kneel to flank more often too!

It's tricky camera work but Anet did us a solid by making Death's Advance free moving untargeted or in action camera like Death's Retreat or Withdraw, only a little more janky. kitten is a wild skill but a nice touch for Kneel stance. 

I really wish Snipers Cover could be dropped closer in Action camera though, that's always a weird little shuffle forward. 

I get what OP is saying, at least under surprise pressure like getting ran over by a zerg or something but pressing to Kneel and to Stand is basically like playing any shooter with crouch, only that it's a double press instead of press and release to stand again which can trip someone up I guess. I think they just have a muscle memory issue that should smooth out. OP really should hit up their keybind layout some.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

3 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

It's tricky camera work but Anet did us a solid by making Death's Advance free moving untargeted or in action camera like Death's Retreat or Withdraw, only a little more janky. kitten is a wild skill but a nice touch for Kneel stance. 

I really wish Snipers Cover could be dropped closer in Action camera though, that's always a weird little shuffle forward. 

I get what OP is saying, at least under surprise pressure like getting ran over by a zerg or something but pressing to Kneel and to Stand is basically like playing any shooter with crouch, only that it's a double press instead of press and release to stand again which can trip someone up I guess. I think they just have a muscle memory issue that should smooth out. OP really should hit up their keybind layout some.

I 100% agree about action cam and snipers cover. It would be nice to be able to point things closer to your feet. This is one of the reasons I don't use it as much now :S (I used to be a huge fan of it). I can toggle it still though for when I want to use it though.

Yeah, I can see that. The new guardian tome changes make me feel a little like that sometimes, but I will get used to it. I am not sure about confusing walk vs kneel though. XD the situation you described is why I didn't like the old kneel haha.

Edited December 19, 2022 by ZeroTheRuler.7415

[Doggie.3184]

It's fine now since they didn't reduce range. It was an improvement.

But it needs a crouch-walk animation cuz the walk looks really lame and radiates a powerful aura of "missed opportunity." It'd certainly help us quickly and easily tell if we're CC'd or if Kneel didn't deactivate too.

I also often find the Rifle unuseable a lot of the time without AoE or Pierce on the AA. (Something still needs done about Deadly Aim too, there's such a big punishment for taking something that coulda been baseline and it isn't as useful or fun as Ricochet).

I wish they'd stop being stubborn with our Pierce and AoE. It's a QoL necessity in this game that everyone but us seems to get. The Rifle already has super slow animations and then only hits one thing when fighting 20+ enemies. Burst of Shadows is bad cuz it requires death and so is Shadow Flare for AoE, the pulses coulda been better off placed on the Rifle instead of gambling it breaking stealth as a pulsing utility, and the range on both are super tiny radius for how often they're not up.

Also like why not? No reason to be too scared of it in PvP since the amount of counters VS Rifle with walls, reflects and projectile destruction are heavily plentyful.

[ASP.8093]

On 12/18/2022 at 6:58 PM, Rogue Sol.1457 said:

Before when kneel was stationary not being able to move HELPED. When you were in trouble you could come out of kneel in two ways, by hitting 5 again, or by dodge rolling. By dodge rolling to break kneel I could get mobile again and reposition as needed.

Uh, what? Dodge rolling didn't break you out of Kneel in the past. Only using 5 again, swapping weapons, or getting CCed.

[Venport.3925]

40 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

Uh, what? Dodge rolling didn't break you out of Kneel in the past. Only using 5 again, swapping weapons, or getting CCed.

maybe they double tap W to dodge

[Jumpel.3972]

On 12/19/2022 at 3:50 AM, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

I think it is way better now. You aren't forced out of kneel as often

I feel now to be always on kneel and don't want to unkneel. At the end, imo kneel feel more like "I cripple myself to be able to do what other can normally do" rather than a game mechanic.

[Barzah.8019]

On 12/20/2022 at 6:11 PM, Jumpel.3972 said:

I feel now to be always on kneel and don't want to unkneel. At the end, imo kneel feel more like "I cripple myself to be able to do what other can normally do" rather than a game mechanic.

non kneel has faster skill animation, while kneeling has better dmg + buff/debuff. Now you can properly switch between non-kneel (mobility/faster malice) and kneel depend without shooting yourself in the foot

[Sobx.1758]

On 12/19/2022 at 12:58 AM, Rogue Sol.1457 said:

I don't post on these forums almost at all, but the recent change to Deadeye has made the class play much worse than it did before. Before when kneel was stationary not being able to move HELPED. When you were in trouble you could come out of kneel in two ways, by hitting 5 again, or by dodge rolling. By dodge rolling to break kneel I could get mobile again and reposition as needed. Now with kneel as it is, I've run into several cases where I dodge roll and am still walking in the kneel state. This is a big problem because I have a toggle walk too. I can't tell when my walking is because of the kneel state or the walking toggle. The slow rate at which we move too doesn't help. Deadeye feels like a slow and clunky thief, which isn't what you want in a spec that's a fragile DPS. Please, at least return Deadeye to its previous state, as things are right now it's very awkward, confusing and generally much weaker than it should be.

Since when did dodge rolling break kneel? 🙄 And if you are somehow accidentally hitting walk toggle mid-fight then you should change the bind anyways.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Bern.9613]

On 12/18/2022 at 6:58 PM, Rogue Sol.1457 said:

I don't post on these forums almost at all, but the recent change to Deadeye has made the class play much worse than it did before. Before when kneel was stationary not being able to move HELPED. When you were in trouble you could come out of kneel in two ways, by hitting 5 again, or by dodge rolling. By dodge rolling to break kneel I could get mobile again and reposition as needed. Now with kneel as it is, I've run into several cases where I dodge roll and am still walking in the kneel state. This is a big problem because I have a toggle walk too. I can't tell when my walking is because of the kneel state or the walking toggle. The slow rate at which we move too doesn't help. Deadeye feels like a slow and clunky thief, which isn't what you want in a spec that's a fragile DPS. Please, at least return Deadeye to its previous state, as things are right now it's very awkward, confusing and generally much weaker than it should be.

Unfortunately for you, you are asking for the impossible. As you may have noticed, a lot of the responders/experts find all these "buffs" to be extraordinarily generous. They reveled at "Shadow Arts has long been a source of frustrating gameplay, particularly in competitive PvP and WvW" and the "buffs" that followed, celebrated the "buffs" diminishing the power and usefulness of the rifle and frolic in the newest, latest and greatest deadeye yet, dagger/dagger short bow, because nothing says deadeye like using a melee weapon set. Even specter is going off the rails with sword/pistol variant. Only a matter of time before they "buff" the hell out of alacrity and chronomancer runes. Not to discount their ability to nerf sword/pistol even more then they have over the years.

[Jumpel.3972]

On 12/21/2022 at 12:52 PM, Barzah.8019 said:

non kneel has faster skill animation, while kneeling has better dmg + buff/debuff. Now you can properly switch between non-kneel (mobility/faster malice) and kneel depend without shooting yourself in the foot

You were already able to do that before and for less int....

Btw you should normaly never use non-kneel except 4# and 5#  in PVE (in PVP it's the opposit 😅)

[SoftPup.3048]

Dodge rolling did not remove Kneel prior to this patch.

[yiksing.9432]

The new changes is healthy but made it nigh impossible to play with latency of 300ms, haven’t touched deadeye since.