Condition damage in smal scale

[Sansar.1302]

Condition damage is way to powerful in smal scale, it needs be be atleast half of what it is now.

[Dawdler.8521]

Power damage is way too powerful in large scale, it needs be be at least half of what it is now.

[Telgum.6071]

All those so called "hybrid builds" killing you through condition damage and sustain. Basically Trailblazer with boon duration and a bit of power damage.

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

All those so called "hybrid builds" killing you through condition damage and sustain. Basically celestial with boon duration and alot of power damage.

Fixed.

[Telgum.6071]

20 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Fixed.

Yeah man I do remember you were the one saying marauder stats are broken in a condition thread, not much to add here.

[Dawdler.8521]

31 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Yeah man I do remember you were the one saying marauder stats are broken in a condition thread, not much to add here.

Nah just laughing at people saying condition damage is OP when like 9 out of 10 meta builds are either cele or power based. 

Pure trailblazer on a "boonless" build has less condition damage than celestial on say a perma 25 stack might willbender.

And thats ignoring the exponential gains of stacking power in smallscale, compared to stacking condi. Unless you're saying a 1v1 is "smallscale". And even there the most oppressive builds run cele.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[Telgum.6071]

15 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Nah just laughing at people saying condition damage is OP when like 9 out of 10 meta builds are either cele or power based. 

Pure trailblazer on a "boonless" build has less condition damage than celestial on say a perma 25 stack might willbender.

And thats ignoring the exponential gains of stacking power in smallscale, compared to stacking condi. Unless you're saying a 1v1 is "smallscale". And even there the most oppressive builds run cele.

I don't question Celestial is even worse than Trailblazer.

[Sahne.6950]

If your not playing cele... do you even roam bro?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Just come fight against AG and have fun.

Triple TB/Cele necros (ideally a couple core tanks and a harb for pressure).

Condi Druid for immob, Condi SlBs with trapper rune.

Some good ol' Celebenders whirling lighting you into burning.

My beloved Cele Renegade "BrO I PlaY 3 RaMPaGEr PieCes".

Actually seen Cele support specter with venoms, crazy stuff.

 

Meh might as well uninstall than be part of this vomit.

[Telgum.6071]

Just now, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Just come fight against AG and have fun.

Triple TB/Cele necros (ideally a couple core tanks and a harb for pressure).

Condi Druid for immob, Condi SlBs with trapper rune.

Some good ol' Celebenders whirling lighting you into burning.

My beloved Cele Renegade "BrO I PlaY 3 RaMPaGEr PieCes".

Actually seen Cele support specter with venoms, crazy stuff.

 

Meh might as well uninstall than be part of this vomit.

I can relate, if you ever see an AG player alone and not running away from you, 100% it's playing a condi/bunker build.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 minute ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I can relate, if you ever see an AG player alone and not running away from you, 100% it's playing a condi/bunker build.

Quite comical, I am actually missing One-shot Soulbeasts this matchup.

[Telgum.6071]

6 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Quite comical, I am actually missing One-shot Soulbeasts this matchup.

Since you are playing against AG, climb to t1 for the next MU and you'll find plenty. Including me.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

4 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Since you are playing against AG, climb to t1 for the next MU and you'll find plenty. Including me.

Zamn, nah we droppin for sure, thank god! 

[solemn.9670]

5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Nah just laughing at people saying condition damage is OP when like 9 out of 10 meta builds are either cele or power based. 

Pure trailblazer on a "boonless" build has less condition damage than celestial on say a perma 25 stack might willbender.

And thats ignoring the exponential gains of stacking power in smallscale, compared to stacking condi. Unless you're saying a 1v1 is "smallscale". And even there the most oppressive builds run cele.

Condi has been OP for many years now. Cele just lets you take advantage of how op condi is by combining it with how appropriately formidable power is, like in every other game. Yes there are cases where power is unbalanced, but it's an exception not the rule, you can't expect everything to be perfectly balanced. But we can observe that condi is consistently better and easier. 

Why would I play power/marauder water/air/weaver when I could play cele fire/arcane/weaver which kills through burn? Why play power Necro when condi Necro can be 100% tankier whilst doing even more damage more reliably lol

Why play anything but condi mirage when it's been the biggest offender for years and at this rate will never be properly fixed (neutered. It should be absolutely gutted.) (Keep in mind casuals who can't even play condi mirage will confused react this because what would they know anyway)

[bluberblasen.9684]

"If everyone is overpowered, no one is"

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, solemn.9670 said:

Condi has been OP for many years now. Cele just lets you take advantage of how op condi is by combining it with how appropriately formidable power is, like in every other game. Yes there are cases where power is unbalanced, but it's an exception not the rule, you can't expect everything to be perfectly balanced. But we can observe that condi is consistently better and easier. 

Why would I play power/marauder water/air/weaver when I could play cele fire/arcane/weaver which kills through burn? Why play power Necro when condi Necro can be 100% tankier whilst doing even more damage more reliably lol

Why play anything but condi mirage when it's been the biggest offender for years and at this rate will never be properly fixed (neutered. It should be absolutely gutted.) (Keep in mind casuals who can't even play condi mirage will confused react this because what would they know anyway)

So you are saying... gear with power and boon duration shows how OP condi is. Right. Must make perfect sense to those confused emotes, yes.

Could it be... you know... that it  isnt actually condition in itself that's OP, but certain classes and builds that are *very* good at using both because of how Anet has designed the expansion pack skills so celestial is a free lunch for them?

Also lets go check the best rated WvW roaming builds on guildjen:

Power daredevil
Power deadeye
Power core thief
Power soulbeast
Condi druid
Cele soulbeast
Power holo
Cele scrapper
Condi mirage
Cele virtuosi
Power mirage
Cele catalyst
Power/cele catalyst
Cele harbinger
Power reaper
Power spellbreaker
Power core warrior
Power willbender
Power dragonhunter
Power vindicator
Power herald
Cele renegade

Clearly an indication of how OP condi is in smallscale. You can just see the red thread of condi oozing through the list. As you say, that condi mirage is the deciding factor.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[Sahne.6950]

You believing that this list is remotely representative to what builds and most notably how many of those, run around in wvw currently, is clearly and indication that you havent roamed in a while.

sry dawdler...i like you and i think alot of your posts are funny, but this argument right here, is d00d00

Edited January 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[MysteryDude.1572]

It's combination of condi builds into a hybrid setup that makes them powerfull , small-scale groups that play around hybrid setups , groups like srge , LD , gear... and others, are infamous examples.

They farm pugs , they kills casuals they fall off vs any guild that knows how to single target , that get luled by blobs .. 

Example: cele harbri/double cele sceptre, nightmare fuel...

Vs anything that cannot fight it ye, it's powerfull. 

 It's all about where the "condi op" pov comes from....

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by MysteryDude.1572

[Dawdler.8521]

8 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

You believing that this list is remotely representative to what builds and most notably how many of those, run around in wvw currently, is clearly and indication that you havent roamed in a while.

sry dawdler...i like you and i think alot of your posts are funny, but this argument right here, is d00d00

Oh right. I forgot that no one is playing WvW hence there are no roamers. Not even I play, that would be impossible.

[Sahne.6950]

Thats the spirit.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Oh right. I forgot that no one is playing WvW hence there are no roamers. Not even I play, that would be impossible.

Roamers are currently endangered species, very rarely I meet someone running solo that doesn't run cheese, it's like 1 in 100 players if lucky.
The only power builds I meet most often in roaming are: willybenders, teefs all types, warriors, spellbonkers and that's it, something like yolosmith, scrapper, dragonhunter, soulbeasts, elementalist, weaver, reapers and other power focused speces are rarities. Everything else is either celestial or full condi. And usually I'll meet 10 condi bots before even meeting 1 power that isn't willybender or teef. I don't count parties of 5+ as roaming, cause it's not, but they're also more likely to be condi focused than power.
Lists of best rated roaming builds don't mean a kitten in long run, it just shows it can exist and is usable, but it doesn't mean how popular they are. I'll more likely encounter 10 condi mirages within 1h than 1 power mirage within 6h of playing even though they're "meta" in roaming.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

 I don't count parties of 5+ as roaming, cause it's not, but they're also more likely to be condi focused than power.

But is it smallscale?

I'd just like to sum it up and people are free to dispute it with their own view of how it looks: 

Zerging meta: Minstrel+power. 

20+ man groups: Same minstrel+power as zerging.

Smaller 5-10 man groups: Minstrel+power+celestial, more specific purpose builds (such as the mandatory aura ele).

Smaller 2-5 man groups: Power+celestial with some more specific purpose condi builds mostly for lockdown and CC (immo druids being the best example) while the exponential damage gains of having multiple power builds roflstomp the target they focus is what keeps the fights rolling. 4-5 man is usually the magic number where minstrel starts to get thrown in because they have the "space" for dedicated supports running after their tails like puppies.

1-2 mans: Power+celestial+condition are competetive, with a few leaning toward pure condition true but most being celestial because it's vastly more flexible with about as much damage as any power or condition build due to *certain classes* having so many boons and comboing skills for so many condition stacks they make up for the "lost" stats of pure builds (ele and guard being the best examples). 

People are always salty over the last part. Because they just see "CONDITION BAD" when they get 10+ burn stacks dumped on them and ignore everything else done by a celestial geared character with perma 25 might stacks, protection, resistance, etc.

As a sidenote: I am of the opinion that celestial and 4 stat gear should be removed. 3 stats at least meant compromises and what WvW was originally designed for. Of course, that's never going to happen hence why one run celestial because why not.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[Sahne.6950]

every group that is below 8ish people is at maximum strength like this:

1 or 2 minstrelTempests and then fill up with Cele.

But thats not because conditions are overpowered. Its because Cele has WAY WAY WAY to many stats. Now you add might ontop and suddenly you have a raidboss build.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Eudaimonia.8695]

They've nerfed the damage and the duration of condition damage skills, plus added the resolution boon. As a result, it's become useless in large scale fights.

 

I believe condi builds should at least have a place in roaming. These days, it isn't the damage, but the tankiness of celestial, trailblazer, you name it, which are the problem. 

 

Imo, when you want to do high condi damage, you should be relatively glassy, just like power builds. The maximum that should be allowed is a stat combo akin to the Wizard amulet in pvp (power + condi major and vitality + precision minor) or a new stat combo with condi + precision major and vitality + expertise minor. Then it would be like marauders for power builds, and that's as far as it should go in terms of tankiness.

 

This is just wishful thinking on my part, because the problem is that they can't remove stat combos in WvW, it's tied to PVE. ANet avoids upsetting the player base at any cost, even if it's harmful for the game.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Eudaimonia.8695

[Sansar.1302]

34 minutes ago, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

They've nerfed the damage and the duration of condition damage skills, plus added the resolution boon. As a result, it's become useless in large scale fights.

 

I believe condi builds should at least have a place in roaming. These days, it isn't the damage, but the tankiness of celestial, trailblazer, you name it, which are the problem. 

 

Imo, when you want to do high condi damage, you should be relatively glassy, just like power builds. The maximum that should be allowed is a stat combo akin to the Wizard amulet in pvp (power + condi major and vitality + precision minor) or a new stat combo with condi + precision major and vitality + expertise minor. Then it would be like marauders for power builds, and that's as far as it should go in terms of tankiness.

 

This is just wishful thinking on my part, because the problem is that they can't remove stat combos in WvW, it's tied to PVE. ANet avoids upsetting the player base at any cost, even if it's harmful for the game.

About 2 years ago they nerfed power damage alot , way more than the condi damage nerf 😞