Why isn't the que system in PVE?

[Astralporing.1957]

On 1/19/2023 at 10:45 PM, DarcShriek.5829 said:

With your method, instead of spamming to make an event, they would sit in the queue until after the event and miss it. 

Actually, they could just queue and then play normally, instead of sitting in one place spamming "join in".

On 1/19/2023 at 10:45 PM, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Another problem is people would sit in multiple queues hoping to play an event only to miss it.

Old system allowed only one queue. WvW also allows only one queue. I'd assume that if any new system appeared, it would also allow only one queue.

On 1/19/2023 at 10:45 PM, DarcShriek.5829 said:

  Why have all these people waiting in a queue, when they can be sent to a new instance and play the event. 

They are already in a new instance and playing while waiting in the queue. Remember, the queue system (which already exists, btw, it's just disabled) requires you to be on another instance of the same map.

On 1/19/2023 at 10:45 PM, DarcShriek.5829 said:

A queue system would result in too many people waiting in multiple queues and not playing. 

On the oppsite, since queue (instead of having to spam joins) is a passive "fire and forget" system, they would not have to wait, they could play normally while doing so. Unlike people that do spam joins in order to get to another instance.

[Sobx.1758]

25 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Actually, they could just queue and then play normally, instead of sitting in one place spamming "join in".

Old system allowed only one queue. WvW also allows only one queue. I'd assume that if any new system appeared, it would also allow only one queue.

They are already in a new instance and playing while waiting in the queue. Remember, the queue system (which already exists, btw, it's just disabled) requires you to be on another instance of the same map.

On the oppsite, since queue (instead of having to spam joins) is a passive "fire and forget" system, they would not have to wait, they could play normally while doing so. Unlike people that do spam joins in order to get to another instance.

Still a bad idea encouraging ditching your current instance for the sake of joining ""the main one"" instead of organizing a new group/instance where you can actually succesfully participate in the events with the rest of the playes. Literally works directly against the concept of creating additional instances in the first place.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[DarcShriek.5829]

26 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Actually, they could just queue and then play normally, instead of sitting in one place spamming "join in".

Old system allowed only one queue. WvW also allows only one queue. I'd assume that if any new system appeared, it would also allow only one queue.

They are already in a new instance and playing while waiting in the queue. Remember, the queue system (which already exists, btw, it's just disabled) requires you to be on another instance of the same map.

On the oppsite, since queue (instead of having to spam joins) is a passive "fire and forget" system, they would not have to wait, they could play normally while doing so. Unlike people that do spam joins in order to get to another instance.

You're not able the play the event you're trying to get to if you're waiting in a queue.  Don't twist my words, that's evil.

[Astralporing.1957]

52 minutes ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

You're not able the play the event you're trying to get to if you're waiting in a queue.  Don't twist my words, that's evil.

Why not? When i am waiting for a WvW queue to pop, i don't wait, but continue to play normally (whether i am in PvE, or in another WvW battleground). Why do you think this case would be different?

It's when i keep spamming "join in" that i am not playing anything, because when you keep spamming joins, it's next to impossible to do anything else.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[ShatteredStars.6548]

On 1/19/2023 at 4:21 AM, Twitch.4635 said:

Can we please get a que system for joining different IP maps like WvW has???  It would help save my wrist and index finger from getting carpel tunnel/arthritis as well.

No thanks, why do i have to wait in a que to the play the game in open world, just no.

[ShatteredStars.6548]

On 1/20/2023 at 9:39 PM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Honestly I'm getting pretty worried of every quality of life change being downvoted into oblivion by players who don't want anything to change, which is becoming more and more common.

 

I really wish we could go back to players thinking about other players in this community.

 

Regardless, the map instance system sucks, and most newer players have to have it explained to them because right-click/join/error isn't in any other game I've played. Most of them have had a queue, and the few that didn't were entirely open-world (no map boundaries), so didn't need one anyway.

Because a lot of the ideas are not good.

[Sobx.1758]

25 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Why not? When i am waiting for a WvW queue to pop, i don't wait, but continue to play normally (whether i am in PvE, or in another WvW battleground). Why do you think this case would be different?

It's when i keep spamming "join in" that i am not playing anything, because when you keep spamming joins, it's next to impossible to do anything else.

The idea here is to not spam "join in", but instead play with the other players in the instance you're currently in. Adding the queue system encourages leaving the current instance at the first possible moment and that works directly against the reason additional instances are created, not sure how that's so hard to understand for some people here.

[Obtena.7952]

I love threads like this.

1. Anet implements the 'Black' option, at a cost for some reason(s)

2. Players hope Anet considers the 'white' option, are amazed they haven't yet.

ALRIGHTY THEN 🤔

Edited January 22, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Artemis.8034]

I wish we had it for 10 man and 5 man content. 

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The idea here is to not spam "join in", but instead play with the other players in the instance you're currently in. Adding the queue system encourages leaving the current instance at the first possible moment and that works directly against the reason additional instances are created, not sure how that's so hard to understand for some people here.

It's not the queue system that encourages this. It's something that already exists. It's either bad scaling or highly lowered chances of doing the event when organizing ad-hoc that does that. Players that want to get into another instance don't just start organizing if their first join ins fail to work. What they do is stay there, looking for other LFGs, and spamming joins until it eventually works, or until it's too late to participate anyway. If those players could "queue and forget", they might actually join the others on the same map and put some effort into it and not effectively AFK, which would benefit that instance far more.

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's not the queue system that encourages this.

It is, because spamming buttons involves some effort (duh, isn't this THE reason some people want the queue in the first place? Because they want to ditch on the instances without effort? 🙄) and simply "queing and forgetting" does not. So adding a queue like that clearly does encourage swapping instances as soon as possbile instead of playing with other players within the instance you're currently in.

16 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If those players could "queue and forget", they might actually join the others on the same map and put some effort into it and not effectively AFK, which would benefit that instance far more.

0 benefit in initially taking up space and fooling other players into thinking they have active participants, when they'll leave the very moment a queue pops for them. At some point 5 more players in the instance make a difference -queue pops for 5 of them and the instance fails despite initially looking like it could succeed on their own. Blueballing people in your instance because you happened to join a queue 5-10 minutes ago has nothing to do with being beneficial for anyone else than the queued person. Terrible idea directly playing against the system creating additional instances.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

On 1/19/2023 at 1:21 AM, Twitch.4635 said:

Can we please get a que system for joining different IP maps like WvW has???  It would help save my wrist and index finger from getting carpel tunnel/arthritis as well.

There could be a system that re-suffle the people at the pre event ,but  you can use the old right-click in the party UI (no Raid one)>> join your friends megaserver . (I dont know much about phasing or balanicing load ,but half the group could be insisible wisp that hit the boss that spawn in the east side and the other half hit the same boss that spawn in the west side and both sides switch places for the pre/after events . Or 1st ground + 2nd ground floor).

 

Plus creating a Raid composition  on map , assigns you randoms numbers . If you all try to join another map in the same time (forcefully creating new instance) based on your number you have , you  are assinged in random overworlds (overworld meant to be "random" , not guarranteed to orginise it like Soo-Won ..or "it goes against the idea of creating new maps" , or any other future OW-selling scheme).

 

About people waiting , there could be a bar (like timer - that moves to the mid position) that indicate when the resuffle will start and you have to do the events so the oposite side is filled towards the mid(like the gold medalion) to weed out afkers .

Edited January 22, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

There could be a system that re-suffle the people at the pre event

Ah yes, lets punish people for being active during pre-events because you want to force your way into the instance they were playing in. 😐 

Or maybe just stop trying to freeload and either join early to participate in pre-events or simply play in the instance that opened for you. If "you want to play with friends" and their instance is full, ask them to join yours instead, there's your starting point now.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[kharmin.7683]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ah yes, lets punish people for being active during pre-events because you want to force your way into the instance they were playing in. 😐 

Or maybe just stop trying to freeload and either join early to participate in pre-events or simply play in the instance that opened for you. If "you want to play with friends" and their instance is full, ask them to join yours instead, there's your starting point now.

I guess to be fair, this is learned behavior from the starter zones.  How many people wait around for SB or Maw while a "select few" do the actual pre-event?  Megadestroyer has the same issue with players standing around asking "where's the boss?" or "when will it spawn?" without engaging in the pre-event. 

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Pretty sure this would make joining the correct instances even worse. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It is, because spamming buttons involves some effort (duh, isn't this THE reason some people want the queue in the first place? Because they want to ditch on the instances without effort? 🙄) and simply "queing and forgetting" does not. So adding a queue like that clearly does encourage swapping instances as soon as possbile instead of playing with other players within the instance you're currently in.

No. The game design (and player mentality) encourages swapping instances. This is simething that already exists, without any qyeye system present. All lack of queue does is encouraging players to concentrate on spamming that button. While, if queue existed, they could have used it, and then played the current instance as a backup in case the queue won't trigger in time.

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

0 benefit in initially taking up space and fooling other players into thinking they have active participants, when they'll leave the very moment a queue pops for them.

Yeah, instead they will be just standing around waiting for the slots on another map to free. Taking the space, not helping, and disappearing as soon as a space in another instance appears. Notice, btw, that i am not speaking in hypotheticals. I am talking about how it works.

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

At some point 5 more players in the instance make a difference -queue pops for 5 of them and the instance fails despite initially looking like it could succeed on their own.

If the instance looks like it can succeed, players will not bother to switch maps. They do it only if their current map does not look promising. And, again, that's what happens currently. It would not be any worse if queue existed, because the amount of players actually transfering would not change. If 5 players leaving to another map would make the instance fail, it would happen anyway, because 5 players would still leave, just using "join in" feature. And likely contributing far less (because you can't make less contribution than AFKing while spamming joins)

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Blueballing people in your instance because you happened to join a queue 5-10 minutes ago has nothing to do with being beneficial for anyone else than the queued person. Terrible idea directly playing against the system creating additional instances.

It's not any worse than leaving the same players hanging by using "join in" option. Or by refusing to participate because you are too busy trying to find another instance to actually play.

[ugrakarma.9416]

What u want is some kind of "select instance" option.

The wvw qeue system ins't that, u are confusing things...

Edited January 23, 2023 by ugrakarma.9416

[mythical.6315]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Remember, the queue system (which already exists, btw, it's just disabled)

Source that something like this exists for PvE but is just disabled?  Or is this just bad phrasing?

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

9 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ah yes, lets punish people for being active during pre-events because you want to force your way into the instance they were playing in. 😐 

Or maybe just stop trying to freeload and either join early to participate in pre-events or simply play in the instance that opened for you. If "you want to play with friends" and their instance is full, ask them to join yours instead, there's your starting point now.

Your feedback is very valuable for me , i will take much considaration , like the opinion of the rest of the raiders and their fabulous work they did on there  😛

 

People will play the instance that was created for them , rather than trying to spam the "Join Button" and stay afk on a dead map (the anti-afk will force them) .

Pre events are shorts and can be coppied to multiply other 'shards" , when the equalization starts (pre events  imagine them like wating in the que , before the real instance starts).Theres can be multiply prevents before each  boss (like Soo Won that you can join any time) , but only the boss allows you to get loot/ or keys for the last boss. Succefull mapsis coppiedto other shards..while people with low keys...came near the end doesnt get loot from the last boss.

The system will take an overpollulated map + 1 dead and split them equally .Or lets create a "join bottun like WvW" like the OP wants , and wait till an open space is enabled in the overpopullated map .

People can play with their friends , by clicking right click in their friend portait , while the Raids ones (created in differnt maps and then they say that they have 100% chance in Soo -Won) , cannot

 

Spoiler

 (or it the part that people cannot crate a full organized raid outside the map so they have 100% chance to win , that creates the problem ? I am sorry i did it by mistake , i didnt do it by spite ...i am a baka . I have no  intention now to allure the old ggs and let them depend on a madman , now the only people in the other side ,are people that try to kick a Dev for not allowing Eles to do 51k dps . I wouldn't try to use this oprotunity to "chip slowly away" things to other people love 😛)

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Source that something like this exists for PvE but is just disabled?  Or is this just bad phrasing?

Source: how it worked before megaserver. Each server had a base map and overflows. If you entered a map, and the base map was full, you ended in an overflow. You could then try to use "join in" feature to attempt to switch to base map (or another overflow), and if it was full, you ended up in a quene (invisible one, meaning , unlike with WvW, you did not know how big it was and which place you were at), and when that queue popped you got transferred. That mechanic no longer works after megaservers were added, but it's not like it suddenly stopped existing. It's just currently disabled.

Edit, notice, that, while this mechanic did exist then, not everyone knew about it, because it was a bit flawed (apparently, "join in" first checked for empty space, and only if none existed checked for queue, which means it was possible to "skip" it by spamming - there was a delay between map freeing a slot and someone getting put there from queue that could be exploited)

Edited January 23, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[mythical.6315]

16 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Source: how it worked before megaserver. Each server had a base map and overflows. If you entered a map, and the base map was full, you ended in an overflow. You could then try to use "join in" feature to attempt to switch to base map (or another overflow), and if it was full, you ended up in a quene (invisible one, meaning , unlike with WvW, you did not know how big it was and which place you were at), and when that queue popped you got transferred. That mechanic no longer works after megaservers were added, but it's not like it suddenly stopped existing. It's just currently disabled.

Edit, notice, that, while this mechanic did exist then, not everyone knew about it, because it was a bit flawed (apparently, "join in" first checked for empty space, and only if none existed checked for queue, which means it was possible to "skip" it by spamming - there was a delay between map freeing a slot and someone getting put there from queue that could be exploited)

If such a system existed, as you say that it did, surely there would be documentation of it somewhere?

Edit:  I saw some random posts from back then so okay.  The one thing about this queue is that it went to a persistent map and not to a particular map instance of your choosing.  This functionality may have also been completely removed with megaservers.

Edited January 24, 2023 by mythical.6315

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

If such a system existed, as you say that it did, surely there would be documentation of it somewhere?

Edit:  I saw some random posts from back then so okay.  The one thing about this queue is that it went to a persistent map and not to a particular map instance of your choosing.  This functionality may have also been completely removed with megaservers.

Oh, it did go to a "particular instance of your choosing". You were just choosing it by using "join in" to a person already on that map instance, not by selecting that instance itself (It worked not only to the base map, but to overflows too, in the rare case where there were enough people to create more than one overflow map). And it didn't really matter then, because most of the time you had only one instance to choose (base one), or at most two (base and one overflow).

And i doubt they removed it. Most likely it is just superseded by megaserver mechanic so it never triggers. There's a number of such systems in the game, including some that were actually never used (for example, do you know there's a queue system for logging in as well? I didn't know that either, until it triggered for some people in EU as a result of some bug with infrastructure few years in the past)

Edited January 24, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[mythical.6315]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Oh, it did go to a "particular instance of your choosing". You were just choosing it by using "join in" to a person already on that map instance, not by selecting that instance itself (It worked not only to the base map, but to overflows too, in the rare case where there were enough people to create more than one overflow map). And it didn't really matter then, because most of the time you had only one instance to choose (base one), or at most two (base and one overflow).

And i doubt they removed it. Most likely it is just superseded by megaserver mechanic so it never triggers. There's a number of such systems in the game, including some that were actually never used (for example, do you know there's a queue system for logging in as well? I didn't know that either, until it triggered for some people in EU as a result of some bug with infrastructure few years in the past)

It only went to the persistent server based on everything that I’m reading unless you have something that shows otherwise. 

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

It only went to the persistent server based on everything that I’m reading unless you have something that shows otherwise. 

I'm basing it on my experiences in 2 cases i remember when there was more than one overflow (Marionette and initial Tequatl revamp). Since those cases were extremely rare (as they had to not only require events with significant spikes of overall popularity, but also happen on high-population server) i can understand why not many remember that it could happen.

Of course, it is possible that i remember it wrong, it has been over 8 years since then 😛

[Sobx.1758]

On 1/23/2023 at 1:17 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

No. The game design (and player mentality) encourages swapping instances. This is simething that already exists, without any qyeye system present. All lack of queue does is encouraging players to concentrate on spamming that button. While, if queue existed, they could have used it, and then played the current instance as a backup in case the queue won't trigger in time.

The player mentality which is "make it easier for me to leave and hop on other players' backs"? Sure, changing instances "already exists", I never said it doesn't, did you read what you're responding to? Hint, that's what: It is, because spamming buttons involves some effort (duh, isn't this THE reason some people want the queue in the first place? Because they want to ditch on the instances without effort? 🙄) and simply "queing and forgetting" does not. So adding a queue like that clearly does encourage swapping instances as soon as possbile instead of playing with other players within the instance you're currently in.

On 1/23/2023 at 1:17 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yeah, instead they will be just standing around waiting for the slots on another map to free. Taking the space, not helping, and disappearing as soon as a space in another instance appears. Notice, btw, that i am not speaking in hypotheticals. I am talking about how it works.

Some maybe will, vast majority won't because it's not that effortless. Hence this thread.

Notice btw that you're talking in hypotheticals, because you apparently try to suggest somehow everyone just stands and spams "join instance" if they're not "in that one" already. Which is simply not true.

On 1/23/2023 at 1:17 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's not any worse than leaving the same players hanging by using "join in" option. Or by refusing to participate because you are too busy trying to find another instance to actually play.

Then that's on you, not on the game. Adding a queue that makes it more convenient to swap instances instantly with no effort whatsoever, clearly encourages that behavior and works directly against the idea of creating additional instances in the first place.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Sobx.1758