Profession Survivability

[Hazmy.4215]

Hey there everyone!

=======[Context]
New player here, or rather beginner since I've owned Guild Wars 2 and bought it's expansions for my backlog but never really played the game itself out of hesitation and confusion. I've finally decided to jump in and battle through my anxiety, along with a friend and I'd like to ask some assisstance concerning Professions in the game!

I know different Profressions have different difficulties and I've been trying them out in PvP Mists or in the Level 80 Boost zone to get a feel for which vibe or aesthetic I like the most and I'm really gravitating towards Elementalist, because they have such pretty animations and colorful attacks. I know it's considered a fairly hard class, which I'm willing to learn, though I am a bit worried about how hard that difficulty means in reality.

More importantly, I really like to play alone or in a duo with my friend, I know this is an MMO but we usually play Coop games together and we also decided we'd like to attempt to go through the world and the dungeons of the core game with minimal assisstance only when it's absolutely necessary! We don't mind the challenge or sometimes suffering, as long as we can do it together it's a lot of fun regardless.

=========[ Question ]
With that said, I'd like to keep myself as "tanky" or I believe sustainable is the Guild Wars term for it right, as possible and I know Elementalist is the profession with the least amount of Health and Armor, but I don't know if that REALLY matters? So my question would be is it possible for me to keep playing my Elementalist but build it with abilities and gear to make it as survivable and tanky as let's say a Scourge Necromaner or a Renegade Revenant, from just a few I read about as good alternate choices.

TLDR; New Player here playing with a Friend, I really like Elementalist the most but I like to play Solo / Duo with my friend a lot and for that I'd like a really high sustain character. Is it possible to build an Elementalist be very tanky despite it's core Low Health and Armor similarly like the more popular Scourge Necromancer / Renegade Revenant or Mirage Mesmer?

Sacrificing Speed and Damage isn't a problem for me since it's only for private content with my friend and we don't mind things taking long, as we still have fun.

[voltaicbore.8012]

There are certainly some tanky elementalist builds, capable of soloing difficult bosses.

The difficulty lies in being a new player. Unlike other games, just reaching level cap and endgame gear will NOT make you survivable, particularly on elementalist. On ele, you'll depend a lot on being able to use the right active defenses to mitigate or avoid damage, as well as healing yourself quickly through the water attunement.

Personally, for the gameplay goals you have in mind, I recommend staff mirage. A much more forgiving build, and you can provide yourself and your friend with tons of the alacrity boon.

[InvaderJim.7023]

Don't worry, if you are looking for a tanky ele build just look up builds under the wvw category on metabattle.com. bunker condi catalyst being one of the most broken builds in wvw right now should make pve an absolute breeze. if the build is able to easily tank 3 to 5 people fighting it then some mobs really shouldnt be a problem. its certainly not the most efficient build for pve, but should serve the purpose you are looking for.

[Mythras.2091]

On ele everything goes on, how you play piano while running around like a headless chicken. No kidding, constant moving and constant attunement swapping is important and you survivability lies in you active defenses (as said above).

 

Avoid staff as its a support weapon. As you are not a veteran ele player, i would also avoid dagger / x, so i would recommend scepter / focus.

 

As for build you can go with this as core ele:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAs2lZw4YasLGJOqPnrOA-zxIU1ohvMSoAyMBcYAA-e

 

Its a total lazy kitten condi build: for damage you can camp fire, sometimes go to earth spam you signets (they wont go down because of earth trait). Summon elit elemental to aggro mobs and rain down fire on them or just spam your fire fields on you and watch them blind and burn. Keep cleansing fire for condis. Healing comes form constant casting anything or using heal signet (it also wont go down after you use it). Gaining auras or swapping to earth gives you protection to mitigate some more damage.

 

You dont really need to swap to water nor air, unless you need cc. Air focus 4 is projectile block, 5 is hard cc (scepter 1-3 are fast skill, so if you swap to air, dont hesitate to fire them, but they are not important. Water hase 2 chills, and water focus 5 is a hard cc as well.

 

You also dont really need full cele gear, for budget version go rabid (more health, more dmg but less heal, less armor so be careful)

 

As im not a pianist, i play condi aura tempest as overloads makes piano play slower because while on overload you can look around and analyze the situation and worry less on pressing your keys:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAs2lFw8YLsGWJOyP3tdA-zxIU1ohvMSoAyMBcYAA-e

 

As i said, im not an ele expert, just a casual :)

[Padrion.7382]

You can certainly go with Elementalist and make him reasonably tanky. In this game active damage avoidance (dodges, blocks, simple movement) always beats passive damage mitigation therefore seemingly squishy professions can be surprisingly durable if the they player uses their toolkit well, which will require a certain amount of practice, though. The gap between a skilled and an unskilled player is much wider in this game than in most other MMOs.

 

But if you enjoy this profession for it's gameplay and aesthetics there is no reason not to play it, I'd say. Especially if you have a friend to team up with. Leveling Content is rather on the easy side anyways and together you'll most likely be able to overcome those few challenges a solo player would struggle with, no matter what profession you chose.

[Hazmy.4215]

Thank you for the early replies so far!

So from the sound of it all, Elementalist should be able to be pretty sturdy too? I'm a little concerned though about the remarks on difficulty of using active defenses properly though.

Is that really that difficult that I'd be better off with an easier class like Mirage Mesmer or straight up Necromancer instead?

[Mythras.2091]

Active defense on ele is key, but dont think its too hard... its more like getting used to it.

 

Generally on all class, constant moving is a big helper. Its easy to learn just like in an fps stand face to face and strafe or backpedal (dont show them your back because you get more damage). If you have a safe distance, you can stand still, but if 5 mob is around you, well not moving constantly can cause some serious health issues 🙂 Necro with big health and mirage with clones, blind and stealth can facetank a lot, but i wont recommend it. Im a necro main and switching to ele made me some moments of confusion, died like a paper bird in a firestorm 😄

 

Also timing your dodge (and decide what to dodge) its a bit tricky, but you will learn it in time. I will recommend though not to use double tap to dodge, use a dedicated key for it. You will thank that later 😉

 

The builds i listed are pretty good at survival, and if you move out of harms way, you will do fine. It can facetank some mobs for enough time to realise, that you shall move to survive 😄

[Padrion.7382]

47 minutes ago, Hazmy.4215 said:

Is that really that difficult that I'd be better off with an easier class like Mirage Mesmer or straight up Necromancer instead?

 

The Elementalist is more difficult to learn than most mainly due to the sheer number of skills you have at your disposal with your attunements, and to some extend due to his his squishy base stats. It can be a little overwhelming for a new player but also feel really rewarding, dependent on what kind of player you are. Necro is easier to wrap your head around and more forgiving but what good does it do, if you don't enjoy it as much? It may sound cliché but really play what you like best and make it as tanky as you whish.

[Gibson.4036]

Being able to circle strafe goes a long way in this game, regardless of profession. As @Mythras.2091said, positioning in general PVE is key. You'll avoid a lot of damage just by moving out of the way of attacks. After that, you have your dodges, which are brief invulnerablity frames. Learn these two things, and you will have the foundation of damage avoidance for all professions.

You'll find that playing in a duo is exponentially easier than soloing. So just playing with your friend will give you ton of survivability. Depending on how strong your friend is at playing, elementalist has access to Glyph of Renewal. This means you can pop your friend up from downed state every 90 seconds with a 2 second cast time. I run this when I play with my daughter, because she's still learning a lot, and it avoids spending a lot of time with me trying to dodge AoEs while rezzing her the long way.

As an Ele, you also have access to Glyph of Elementals. Summon an elemental while attuned to earth, and you have a tanky pet that will take focus off you and your friend. The one (big) downside is that it will disappear and go on cooldown every time you mount, once you have a mount.

You have a level 80 boost, which means you will get a full set of Celestial gear. Elementalist is one of the professions that benefits most from this gear stat, because with attunement swapping they are built to be generalists. Celestial means you won't do as much damage, but your power and condi skills will both be effective, and your healing skills will actually feel meaningful.

I'll second scepter as the weapon to go for. It'll give you the ability to go ranged when you need it, but know that GW2 is designed in such a way to get you back into melee as much as possible. So even on scepter, once you get to Tempest, you're going to keep needing to get in close to release your overloads. You'll also need to do that in order to share your helpful supports with your friend.

[Gibson.4036]

The piano play isn't hard if you do it like people learn piano, in bite-sized chunks.

Start out just playing just fire skills. Read them, use them. When you have a good feel for them, try incorporating earth, switching between just these two. Once you feel like you know these skills for what they do individually, try laying down fire fields, swapping earth, and blasting the field for area might. And so on, adding attunements, combos, learning your CC piece by piece.

If you start at the beginning of the story in low level zones, you'll have some time to get used to your skills without repeatedly dying. The trick is to make sure you're actively trying to learn, even though the low level enemies don't require it. Yeah, they die if you just spam fire. But work on giving you and your friend might stacks anyway so that you have that muscle memory by the time it matters.

Don't be too put off by all the people saying Ele is squishy and complicated. 

People say Guardian is a great survivor, but I still die frequently on mine. I'm good to go in most content on my Ele. They both have active defenses, I'm just a lot more familiar on one than the other.

There are a few sit back and chill specs in the game, but the majority of them take learning the encounter and learning your character in order to consistently survive. GW2 just hasn't been built around the idea of passive survivability. In the past the developers have even aggressively struck down builds that got too passively tanky (torment rune builds).

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Ele, despite have low armor and hp, has a lot of means of mitigating damage. Look through your skills and know what they do, and what situation to use them in. Water and Earth will be where you go for sustain and mitigation, but Air and Fire can have evades, blinds, and/or CC depending on your weapon that also aid in sustain.

Don't be afraid to run some safer stat combos while you learn. If you find that Ele is too hard, which it is a high skill ceiling so it may not be for you, then try another class. Every class can be built to be very tanky, some rely on raw defense, some on evasion and blinds, while others rely on spamming Aegis, and other still rely on spamming barrier and/or raw healing output.

[Khisanth.2948]

2 hours ago, Hazmy.4215 said:

Thank you for the early replies so far!

So from the sound of it all, Elementalist should be able to be pretty sturdy too? I'm a little concerned though about the remarks on difficulty of using active defenses properly though.

Is that really that difficult that I'd be better off with an easier class like Mirage Mesmer or straight up Necromancer instead?

Any class can be built for sustain although it is also possible to go overboard. Active defense is mostly a matter of knowing what your skills do and using them at the right time.

A more accurate description would be elementalist is hard to play if you don't want to learn to play the game. If someone wants to take that route then yes mirage and necro are technically easier because you could get further just hitting all the buttons without knowing what they do than on elementalist but every class will still hit a roadblock.

[that baby stealing dingo.7]

Deleted my comment for being completely irrelevant, because I didn't read closely enough. 

All I have to contribute here is, Carrion gear is good for leveling your Ele. XD

Edited March 11, 2023 by that baby stealing dingo.7
Clarification.

[synk.6907]

17 hours ago, Hazmy.4215 said:

Thank you for the early replies so far!

So from the sound of it all, Elementalist should be able to be pretty sturdy too? I'm a little concerned though about the remarks on difficulty of using active defenses properly though.

Is that really that difficult that I'd be better off with an easier class like Mirage Mesmer or straight up Necromancer instead?

Don't let it intimidate you. If it's the class that appeals to you, give it a go! What's the worst that happens? When you and your friend play you might end up taking a dirt nap now and again? Hardly a big deal! You will learn the class in the process and only get better. The "piano" difficulty won't even be a concern until you're trying to do optimal rotations in organized instanced content.

 

Also I think many of us who are less focused on our elementalists would just say getting down is part of the rotation!

 

  

15 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

A more accurate description would be elementalist is hard to play if you don't want to learn to play the game. If someone wants to take that route then yes mirage and necro are technically easier because you could get further just hitting all the buttons without knowing what they do than on elementalist but every class will still hit a roadblock.

great comment!

Edited March 11, 2023 by synk.6907

[Hazmy.4215]

Thank you for all the replies! I will continue to play my Elementalist and see what I can do with it! Perhaps I'll also level up another class that was advised to see a comparison!

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 3/10/2023 at 4:23 AM, Hazmy.4215 said:

Hey there everyone!

=======[Context]
New player here, or rather beginner since I've owned Guild Wars 2 and bought it's expansions for my backlog but never really played the game itself out of hesitation and confusion. I've finally decided to jump in and battle through my anxiety, along with a friend and I'd like to ask some assisstance concerning Professions in the game!

I know different Profressions have different difficulties and I've been trying them out in PvP Mists or in the Level 80 Boost zone to get a feel for which vibe or aesthetic I like the most and I'm really gravitating towards Elementalist, because they have such pretty animations and colorful attacks. I know it's considered a fairly hard class, which I'm willing to learn, though I am a bit worried about how hard that difficulty means in reality.

More importantly, I really like to play alone or in a duo with my friend, I know this is an MMO but we usually play Coop games together and we also decided we'd like to attempt to go through the world and the dungeons of the core game with minimal assisstance only when it's absolutely necessary! We don't mind the challenge or sometimes suffering, as long as we can do it together it's a lot of fun regardless.

=========[ Question ]
With that said, I'd like to keep myself as "tanky" or I believe sustainable is the Guild Wars term for it right, as possible and I know Elementalist is the profession with the least amount of Health and Armor, but I don't know if that REALLY matters? So my question would be is it possible for me to keep playing my Elementalist but build it with abilities and gear to make it as survivable and tanky as let's say a Scourge Necromaner or a Renegade Revenant, from just a few I read about as good alternate choices.

TLDR; New Player here playing with a Friend, I really like Elementalist the most but I like to play Solo / Duo with my friend a lot and for that I'd like a really high sustain character. Is it possible to build an Elementalist be very tanky despite it's core Low Health and Armor similarly like the more popular Scourge Necromancer / Renegade Revenant or Mirage Mesmer?

Sacrificing Speed and Damage isn't a problem for me since it's only for private content with my friend and we don't mind things taking long, as we still have fun.

If you're worried about difficulty, you're probably best off using something on the easier side like condi tempest.  But if you want to throw caution to the wind, I think condi sword weaver is a lot more fun!  Here's a clip with build link to try.

 

[Hazmy.4215]

Hi there!

To me it's more than I think my mechanical skills aren't what they used to be, but my passion is still the same if not deeper for conscious gameplay and thinking. So I love Elementalist so far but I'm afraid I might hit a brick wall with it with the constant attunement shifting.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

I recently returned to GW2 after many years, and when I came back and was relearning all that I'd forgotten, one of the things I wanted to see if I could do was create a "thorns" build that somehow utilizes lightning (I just like the visual effect of lightning).  So, as I was refamiliarizing myself with the classes, and thinking about what I could work, I stumbled on and developed a kinda weird elementalist tanky "thorns" build that I really enjoy in open PvE, and even a bit in WvW when I dip my toes (though its effectiveness is greatly reduced there).  It's a surprisingly effective way to tank (and I often face-tank enemies) and be tanky.

 

I don't really enjoy attunement swapping, and so I keep to full air attunement... It can't be played with much attunement swapping anyways without sacrificing effectiveness - quite the opposite from how elementalist builds usually work.

 

Here's my build as it currently stands: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PG0AgiZlZwuYPMKGJOyL5vUA-zxIYVFTXuUaJBqLCioAyNE0fAA-e

 

The idea is pretty simple: when enemies hit me, they get hurt back (thorns) and stunned.  I based it around the dagger 3 Shocking Aura which gets a constant up-time combined with lightning rod trait.  With the sigil of paralyzation by the time enemies come out of their stun and attack again, the stun cooldown is usually over and they get stunned and damaged again.  It makes me laugh to watch.  The stuns give me time to heal up (often by just attacking), reposition, or get away, and ultimately all those stuns reduces their dps. Then it's a matter of just attacking them down with dagger 1 and 2 while they stun themselves on me.  Further, because of the high crit chance, I'm occasionally blinding enemies thanks to the fire traits, which also reduces enemy dps. I can catch up to enemies with dagger 4, and I have dagger 5 for breakbars or if I get swarmed.  I'll swap out glyph of storms (slotted for groups of enemies) for cleansing fire if I'm fighting enemies using a lot of conditions.  But I rarely need to because there's condition cleanse from putting up auras, and bursting them - the bursting I do just before it expires so I can immediately put up another aura.

 

It first started as core elementalist, with the third trait-line being water (powerful aura is fantastic in groups, and I often play with my roommate).  Then I used earth as the third (elemental shielding is a great tanking trait with this build). Then I swapped the third to tempest, and now I'm experimenting with weaver.  All work pretty well, and gives a lot of flexibility on how you can make the build work for you, no matter where you're at with hero points. 

 

I'm playing it with weaver now because it does a couple of cool things to this build. 1) since my lightning rod inflicts weakness, with the gear and stats I have going I now have a 100% crit chance on anything that hit me, and 2) I get regeneration when I get swiftness, and I get swiftness every time I activate the aura.  The one drawback to using weaver in this way is the air trait Raging Storm becomes possibly better than Stormsoul (so long as I continue to use a sigil of paralyzation).  I'm still debating switching back.

 

When I ran core and tempest I used Rune of the Fire instead of Golemancer, because that meant I could start every fight with a second aura and all it's benefits when enemies would be most numerous/strong.  It worked pretty well, and they're pretty cheap on the TP.  I run Runes of Golemancer now mostly for the ferocity... but it can be nice to have a golem (and an elite glyph elemental that stuns) on the battlefield as a distraction during more difficult fights.

 

I'm sure there are people who'll say it's crazy, or inefficient, but I find it a lot of fun.  The stuns and frequent crit numbers feels great to watch, and all enemy dps is reduced so that I'm effectively tanking, just in a different way.

 

Staff is trade-off weapon only for meta events with tough champions or tons of people around and so I want to stand back and tag enemies.  Mostly I don't use it, and stick to pure dagger/dagger.  Food I use is Spring Roll (swiftness it grants gives me regen) that's really cheap on TP, or Candied Dragon Roll (chance to lifesteal on crit) which is more expensive, but still not bad. I usually only pop food on really difficult fights.... the healing and tanking is usually enough w/o any dependence on food, nor ever needing to swap to water attunement.

 

~EpWa

Edited March 12, 2023 by EphemeralWallaby.7643
clarity

[Dawnbreaker.4901]

I forced myself to "git gud" with the Elementalist. I practiced a lot and I'm happy I did because it's one of my favorite characters to play with, especially in a group setting. I don't play it as much in a solo setting, but I manage well enough.

.

The visuals and general vibe of the Elementalist always clicked with me, but I struggled for a long time to grasp the concepts of the profession. I actually stopped playing mine for a long time after I got to 80 and struggled to survive, but I largely understood that it was "me" and not necessarily the profession - Yes, Elementalist suffers in some areas, but it's more about being proactive rather than reactive.

 

I found Staff to be far too slow for solo play. I didn't enjoy playing Dagger in either hand. Scepter wasn't appealing to me for the longest time until a more recent update made several skills cleave onto enemies - Though there are some issues I don't like with it, such as not being able to target allies with Water Trident.

 

I eventually found that Tempest was the easiest for my ability level. Despite melee being a requirement for the Overload skills, I find I'm able to play at mid-range well enough. I began reacclimating myself to the profession by sticking to Air Attunement on it's own. I slotted some of the Arcane skills to buoy my lack of familiarity with the specialization. Eventually I eased myself into using two elements - Air and Water. Air is my primary damage Attunement playing "Fresh Air Tempest". I swap to Water when I need healing or condi cleanse and then swap back to Air.

 

Eventually I started to weave in Fire and Earth as necessary, but I find myself ignoring Earth a lot of the time because I forget about it, despite it having some nice anti-melee and CC skills and other defensive options as well.

This is the build I generally stick to, I swap traits and utility skills depending on my needs and who I'm playing with - My friends are of varying skill levels and ability, and your mileage may vary.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Fresh_Air