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Advanced PvP tips?


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Hi all,

 

I play pvp and sometimes watch others playing it. I'm usually in Gold 1 and I still don't understand some notions about PvP. I'll just number them so they are easier to reflect on:

1. Who should you focus on in a teamfight? The necromancer, the healer, the revenant, someone else? Is there an order of things? Fights are usually so complex and clustered that I can't see what's going on, where is damage being dealt and so on. Sometimes I somewhat arbitrarily choose someone I find to be more vulnerable than others, and we jump on them.

2. What are some general counters to each specialization? It's hard to decipher sometimes if I'm winning/losing trades based on skills only or by simply one profession build countering the other.

3. In some situations the other team has just better team composition and wins teamfights while lacking power over map control. How do people recognize this during the game? For example, we lost 3 big teamfights in a row in a match, so I told my teammates to pressure the sides and avoid big confrontations, and another player told me that I'm completely wrong and we should be focusing on teamfights cuz our comp is better at it, so we did and we won. I don't understand why.

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On 3/18/2023 at 3:19 PM, hatebreeder.8316 said:

1. Who should you focus on in a teamfight?

"Whoever is more likely to die" would be my honest answer. Start teamfight slow, poke a bit, whoever starts losing HP gets focused. It's not the correct answer 100% of the times, but it's the easiest way to start.

On 3/18/2023 at 3:19 PM, hatebreeder.8316 said:

2. What are some general counters to each specialization?

Meta changes the whole time, the easier way to find that out is to try out for yourself the specs you meet the most. Watch what other succesful players are doing with what class and try to get that done.

On 3/18/2023 at 3:19 PM, hatebreeder.8316 said:

3. In some situations the other team has just better team composition and wins teamfights while lacking power over map control. How do people recognize this during the game?

Maybe opponent won the teamfight by a very narrow margin (even if it didn't seem like it) just because some player made some critical error. If the player is aware of the error they made, and is confident they won't make the same mistake again, they can inform the other teammates; "your honor, I'm pleading whoopsie daisy, if we push again I know we'll win". It's not something you know out of nowhere tho.

Edited by Terrorhuz.4695
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Q1) High DPS, low sustain targets are first priority. That includes stuff like deadeye thief, dh trappers, FA Ele’s, Power Mesmer…it’s a long list.

 

but generally speaking the more damage they do, the more dangerous they are and the more priority you need to have on them to keep them on respawn instead of getting kills onto your team.

 

By getting rid of the enemies DPS, your actually allowing your team more sustain, meaning your team is harder to kill. That’s why if you ever want to do any kind esports gaming moves, like 1v2ing or 1vXing in WvW…you always “pressure” and ultimately kill the enemies DPS and leave the healers and tanks alone till the end.

Q2) Counters are in some sense both real objective qualities of skills and amalgamate, player generated  “theories” of the games skills based on what they do. If you are a class that uses a skill that inflicts a condition then the “counter” to that skill would be a hard counter like condition cleanse…or a soft counter like resolution. You should typically only think of counters in terms of skill to skill exchanges…but it helps to generalize those skills into those broader theories so you can actually bring the tools you need before a match begins. Can’t counter a condition if you didn’t bring any condition cleanse right.

Asking whether certain counters are actually effective is another story…also some things in the game can’t be pinpointed in terms of their complexities… For example “DPS” can be a counter to literally anything that is squishy. The kind of DPS may or may not matter…because your countering things not strictly speaking in the game but player behavior themselves like reaction time or strategy (Like the answer given in Q1). An example of countering strategy is using teleports to force a player like a slow team fighting Necromancer to sit on node so that he’s not in the team fight. This is in some sense a “counter” to that players strategy. 

 

Edited by JusticeRetroHunter.7684
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2 hours ago, hatebreeder.8316 said:

1. Who should you focus on in a teamfight?

Few rules of thumb:

  1. Try to identify the greatest threat, call target on its head, your team needs to focus that player. If you do not pressure the greatest threat, he will freecast DPS and farm your entire team for an easy win.
  2. If there is no identifiable greatest threat, try to identify the player who is dealing the most DPS. The higher DPSers are generally the squishiest. These are the players that are easiest to kill and most dangerous if ignored. You have to pressure DPS threats. When you pressure them they cannot freely cast DPS and it neutralizes their presence. Neutralizing large DPS is as good as being a support role in a team fight.
  3. If there is no identifiable higher DPS in the team fight, try to identify the weakest player who is the easiest to kill in general, and start farming that guy.
2 hours ago, hatebreeder.8316 said:

2. What are some general counters to each specialization?

You need to tell us what class/build you're playing for us to give you detailed information on this.

 

2 hours ago, hatebreeder.8316 said:

In some situations the other team has just better team composition and wins teamfights while lacking power over map control. How do people recognize this during the game? For example, we lost 3 big teamfights in a row in a match, so I told my teammates to pressure the sides and avoid big confrontations, and another player told me that I'm completely wrong and we should be focusing on teamfights cuz our comp is better at it, so we did and we won. I don't understand why.

Team Comps & Rotations are an incredibly complex topic to cover. You could run a 2+ hour stream where you show diagrams and charts to help teach this, and it still would be difficult to cover. Knowing good rotations is something that comes in due time through raw experience. For people who are new enough to the game to be able to ask the question you've asked here, the best advice I can give you are two rules of thumb, and if you actually mindfully pay attention to these and base your play around them, "good rotations" will start making sense to you a lot faster:

  1. DON'T DIE - The best thing you can do for you team is to not die. Think a second before you do things and ask yourself "is this going to get me killed?" If it is, don't do it. Try to take actions that give you advantage situations, not disadvantage situations.
  2. LEARN WHEN TO FALL BACK - Leave bad situations before they turn into bad situations. It is always better to fallback and regroup at a different node than it is to stay and die in a team fight that is obviously a losing team fight. Do not wait for the bad team fight to turn into a full team wipe. Leave the fight early as soon as you realize it is going to be a wipe.

I know this sounds memeishly cliche but those two rules of thumb truly are the gateway to understanding conquest rotations. Don't overcomplicate the matter. Just focus on these two things here. The rest will come organically.

 

Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
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On 3/18/2023 at 10:19 AM, hatebreeder.8316 said:

Hi all,

 

I play pvp and sometimes watch others playing it. I'm usually in Gold 1 and I still don't understand some notions about PvP. I'll just number them so they are easier to reflect on:

1. Who should you focus on in a teamfight? The necromancer, the healer, the revenant, someone else? Is there an order of things? Fights are usually so complex and clustered that I can't see what's going on, where is damage being dealt and so on. Sometimes I somewhat arbitrarily choose someone I find to be more vulnerable than others, and we jump on them.

2. What are some general counters to each specialization? It's hard to decipher sometimes if I'm winning/losing trades based on skills only or by simply one profession build countering the other.

3. In some situations the other team has just better team composition and wins teamfights while lacking power over map control. How do people recognize this during the game? For example, we lost 3 big teamfights in a row in a match, so I told my teammates to pressure the sides and avoid big confrontations, and another player told me that I'm completely wrong and we should be focusing on teamfights cuz our comp is better at it, so we did and we won. I don't understand why.

1) In G1, you probably want to focus who everyone else is focusing regardless of whether that's actually an optimal choice 🙂.  IF you have a team that is going to follow your lead in focusing, then you pick the person who has relatively little ability to survive a burst. (ie. classes without teleports to get out of jail free) and who are glassy and who would do damage to you (likely corresponds to glassy).  
Alternatively if they have someone who does a lot of support but isn't inherently tanky themselves, then that's a valid target too. (in a related manner sometimes you pick the guys who have 
Rez abilities and down them first).

2). Ele's counter everything 🙂  Seriously though, someone with projectile reflect works wonders to be in a team when your opponents are range based.  

 Folks with CC and Condi, will make a scrappers life miserable.  In general folks who can do multiple CC's / immob/ and condi tend to be able to affect glass cannons.

 

  Something like a ranger with the high damage build will do well against necros, and can pick off scrappers once they show up.

 

   A good bunker SB basically needs two people to kill.  So it can side node and waste a lot of anyones time and resources.  Good luck killing it if it plays cautiously.  A good Virtuoso you won't manage to kill far.  At best you can hope to take cap from it and make it get frustrated and leave.


3)  Generally a scenario where you realise you're not going to be able to win team fights is when they have support and you don't.  Without overwhelming DPS you're not beating a well composed team that can leverage support.   The hint is... you don't seem to be denting them, and they're healing up faster than you're doing damage, all your ranged shots are just vanishing.  And when you do down someone... they Rez up.

Edited by shion.2084
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The reality of climbing is that you should always focus, the weakest link.
If enemy team has someone REALLY bad you just farm them and win off of that, if they play a squishy build AND are bad they die super fast, but some kitten players can die super fast even on tanky builds.
Start focusing the weakest targets, identify who is kitten in enemy team and then focus them, its how you climb.

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My biggest tip for climbing elo and improving your gameplay is KITING. Get really good at jumping on objects under pressure and it will vastly improve your survivability when getting focused. Anet specifically designed almost every object on every map to be jumped on, so utilize it!

Edited by WhoWantsAHug.3186
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On 3/24/2023 at 6:14 AM, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

My biggest tip for climbing elo and improving your gameplay is KITING. Get really good at jumping on objects under pressure and it will vastly improve your survivability when getting focused. Anet specifically designed almost every object on every map to be jumped on, so utilize it!

Yeah some folks are really good at this... like on the Djin map, I've seen some players in the tree branches overarching the passage from left team's spawn.  I've also seen people who could get inside the opposite teams base.   Have no idea how that was done.

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On 3/18/2023 at 2:19 PM, hatebreeder.8316 said:

Hi all,

 

I play pvp and sometimes watch others playing it. I'm usually in Gold 1 and I still don't understand some notions about PvP. I'll just number them so they are easier to reflect on:

1. Who should you focus on in a teamfight? The necromancer, the healer, the revenant, someone else? Is there an order of things? Fights are usually so complex and clustered that I can't see what's going on, where is damage being dealt and so on. Sometimes I somewhat arbitrarily choose someone I find to be more vulnerable than others, and we jump on them.

2. What are some general counters to each specialization? It's hard to decipher sometimes if I'm winning/losing trades based on skills only or by simply one profession build countering the other.

3. In some situations the other team has just better team composition and wins teamfights while lacking power over map control. How do people recognize this during the game? For example, we lost 3 big teamfights in a row in a match, so I told my teammates to pressure the sides and avoid big confrontations, and another player told me that I'm completely wrong and we should be focusing on teamfights cuz our comp is better at it, so we did and we won. I don't understand why.

advice is usually associated with what profession/build you are using so it is difficult to give big advice if noone knows how you are building, It's not good asking a glass cannon to go bunker into the middle of the enemy team.

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