Wvw proposal for roammers

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 minutes ago, zonias.1083 said:

you should not play a build that is design for big groups in a small fight. You should not be rewarded for doing so, it is like if i play that build for large scaled WvW into ranked pvp of course i deserve to be clapped. 

So you are saying as a roamer I shouldn't attack the group of six that are trying to get back to their zerg? But you are asking for me to be buffed? I don't understand. It didn't mean they were less skilled nor in inferior armor, it meant my build was set to hunt them and theirs were set to be complimentary to others in a group synergy that made them stronger together.

[zonias.1083]

2 minutes ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

And i am saying that is impossible because you cant know the relative skill levels of the players or the impact that buff would have.  The answer is for you to use your skills, not have a buff as a crutch.  Ask yourself how is it that others can roam for hours with sometimes no deaths.

i have roamed for many hours without dying, simply avoid any fight unless you know it is a 1 vs 1. I just play safe, i am just saying if i could have a chance at winning fight against more opponents it could be engaging to fight more than one opponent and push yourself. 

 

As of now, if fight against multiple people and i win, it was against a totally noob and the experience is not rewarding, i feel bad because they are new.  if a fight againts more skilled played i lose onesidely even though i could be better than all of them individually. 

It has happened where i can kill them because i am more skilled, but i lose to them as a group because they are simply more. 

If i had a buff, it would be an engaging side for both even if they are more in numbers. 

[zonias.1083]

1 minute ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

So you are saying as a roamer I shouldn't attack the group of six that are trying to get back to their zerg? But you are asking for me to be buffed? I don't understand. It didn't mean they were less skilled nor in inferior armor, it meant my build was set to hunt them and theirs were set to be complimentary to others in a group synergy that made them stronger together.

Sorry i was not thinking of that case, i was thinking more of the lines of defending or fighting a camp for example againts a small group. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

Just now, zonias.1083 said:

i have roamed for many hours without dying, simply avoid any fight unless you know it is a 1 vs 1. I just play safe, i am just saying if i could have a chance at winning fight against more opponents it could be engaging to fight more than one opponent and push yourself. 

 

As of now, if fight against multiple people and i win, it was against a totally noob and the experience is not rewarding, i feel bad because they are new.  if a fight againts more skilled played i lose onesidely even though i could be better than all of them individually. 

It has happened where i can kill them because i am more skilled, but i lose to them as a group because they are simply more. 

If i had a buff, it would be an engaging side for both even if they are more in numbers. 

 

im not sure you even know what your asking for, that is the essence of roaming - roam and pick your fights.  What happens btw if a top tier pvp roamer gets the buff and is basically in god mode?

[Xenesis.6389]

41 minutes ago, zonias.1083 said:

10 players misplayed and did not retreat fast enough, and the 50 players simple run them over without any opposition, there is no need to think just press 1 and kill. 

Maybe you misplayed in your fights too? 🤷‍♂️

You're calling groups winning over you as bad players because of skill, but you're not even winning those fights, so they're getting carried by class/spec, what happens when you go against the same number of actual good skilled players? Like you would get scaled to fight 3 players, but those 3 players are built to take on twice their numbers anyways, does that really help you?

End of the day you need to gauge your situations better and figure out if you have a chance with the classes involved, or if you just need to avoid it and come back with better odds in your favor, retreating and kiting are parts of roaming you need to use. And if you have no mobility as a roamer, I don't know what else to tell you, other than get a better build.

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 minute ago, zonias.1083 said:

i have roamed for many hours without dying, simply avoid any fight unless you know it is a 1 vs 1. I just play safe, i am just saying if i could have a chance at winning fight against more opponents it could be engaging to fight more than one opponent and push yourself. 

Maybe playing it safe is the issue. Why are you not testing yourself against more groups? You might be undercutting yourself here. Maybe you are just not practicing enough. Don't worry about your KDR, that's the beauty of roaming. You can Han Solo them all day long, and sometimes, it works out in amazing ways. Attacking groups is also key in strategy when your side is not in the fight and you are looking to influence a fight against the other two sides. Its also good practice in setting up rez bait when intercepting players getting back to a bigger fight.

[zonias.1083]

4 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Why are you not testing yourself against more groups?

I do face groups, but when i face them, i win because they are much worst than me. 

And if i lose, i feel they win just because they are much more,  i have gotten to fights when i down 2 people, and the thirst just ress and i died because run out dps because they where too many and it is not engaging, i know i am better but they simply have more numbers. 

 

[zonias.1083]

11 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Maybe you misplayed in your fights too? 🤷‍♂️

You're calling groups winning over you as bad players because of skill, but you're not even winning those fights, so they're getting carried by class/spec, what happens when you go against the same number of actual good skilled players? Like you would get scaled to fight 3 players, but those 3 players are built to take on twice their numbers anyways, does that really help you?

End of the day you need to gauge your situations better and figure out if you have a chance with the classes involved, or if you just need to avoid it and come back with better odds in your favor, retreating and kiting are parts of roaming you need to use. And if you have no mobility as a roamer, I don't know what else to tell you, other than get a better build.

that is why i said, that you should not win a fight against equally skilled player in an outnumber situation. 

 

but you are right, i will just run away in those situations. 

 

i still think scaling could offer an engaging solution to pick interesting fights against groups.

 

I know i did not misplayed the fights, some of them, i simply lost because they have too many people and i can not kill 3, 4 people at same time unless they are complete new to the game. 

I can tell i am winning the fights but losing because they are more people, i can tell i am healing their dmg, kiting well, avoiding dmg, and downing them. but i lose because are more and simply ress faster that i can kill. 

 

to me fighting outnumber fights simple seems like a complete domination against less skilled players or an overwhelming number in people. fights are never close. 

[Ronin.4501]

2 hours ago, zonias.1083 said:

My problem is that i play as a complete solo roammer all time, but it is frustrated to be pushed of from less skilled player because they are more, it is not rewarding for the solo player to have to run away simple because they are more. a fight would be more engaging if it happened instead of just being tactical movements, or drawing back until they go somewhere else to then get camp and just avoid fighting all together.

Welcome to WvW, where the blobs rule. My guild typically runs between 10-20, and in probably 75% of the fights we encounter our enemies run 40-50. It's the nature of the gamemode. Sometimes you fight, sometimes you run, sometimes you watch the map to avoid the big blobs. But if all we really wanted was even numbered fights we'd be playing SPvP, and most of us hate that gamemode with a passion.

[andrewlcl.8176]

1 hour ago, zonias.1083 said:

I was just thinking a buff in health and maybe a bit of dmg and resistances. 

 

Because the change that you propose would be catastrophic as it would totally change the match ups. i was just thinking of giving the solo player more stats so that he can punish if enemies misplay, like if they not dodge, or if they waste all their skills they can lose. 

It would need very careful balance. As it is, the game's current state is arguably not balanced. The team is struggling to achieve balance even with current builds.

 

Scaling of damage for example, could lead to more "one-shot" or 100-0 events. Imagine one player doing a combo and suddenly downing all 5 guys. Scrap the downstate during some special WvW events, and we are talking about entire groups being destroyed by 1 fella. Sounds like it would be funny to watch, but only for awhile.

[zonias.1083]

3 minutes ago, Ronin.4501 said:

Welcome to WvW, where the blobs rule. My guild typically runs between 10-20, and in probably 75% of the fights we encounter our enemies run 40-50. It's the nature of the gamemode. Sometimes you fight, sometimes you run, sometimes you watch the map to avoid the big blobs. But if all we really wanted was even numbered fights we'd be playing SPvP, and most of us hate that gamemode with a passion.

and that is why i want, to make blobs not the king but coordinates skilled players. 

 

Well not to such an scale, i simple dislike numbers to be such a determining factor

[zonias.1083]

8 minutes ago, andrewlcl.8176 said:

Scaling of damage for example, could lead to more "one-shot" or 100-0 events. Imagine one player doing a combo and suddenly downing all 5 guys. Scrap the downstate during some special WvW events, and we are talking about entire groups being destroyed by 1 fella. Sounds like it would be funny to watch, but only for awhile.

it would be funny, but i would not get to such extreme it does not have to be a scaling like exponential or linear. because it would be crazy one guy get 10000% stats vs 50 players alone. of course. 

[blp.3489]

I'm not advocating it, but as I said elsewhere, it might be cool if you got a speed buff when outnumbered so that you had a better chance of escaping.  It would be better if there was a blob debuff where you are slowed down if there are too many allied player within a small radius of you.  Then again no one likes thief's ability to disengage so it might not be popular.

[Gehenna.3625]

9 hours ago, zonias.1083 said:

I do not like WvW, i play because i need to get legendaries, but that being said lately i have been playing more and more.

Ohh that's not a great start. The only legendary I could think of that warrants the word "need" is Conflux and that shouldn't take you that long if you have that rank. PvP has legendary armor sets, an amulet and a backpack. And if that's the only reason you play WvW, well then you're not really the target audience. So you'll just have to suffer through it.

9 hours ago, zonias.1083 said:

I have gotten to level 394, playing alone because i have no friends in this game, and because commanders when i am connected it pretty rare.

WvW life starts at rank 620 really. Before that time you really don't get enough pips to advance at a decent pace, but you're doing ok with that rank. Having said that, you're only there for the legendaries and WvW is a team sport. Part of the WvW experience is learning HOW to roam if that's your playstyle. It's not as simple as just capping camps and doint 1v1s. You need to learn to read the map and find the right moments to cap. And yes, you'll run into groups and you'll die. Oh well, try again.

9 hours ago, zonias.1083 said:

I come from extensive PvP gamemode, so going to WvW is not hard.

Actually that is probably very hard because you come from an environment where you have an equal amount of opponents and WvW is not about that. If you roam by yourself, you run the risk of being outnumbered.

Other players who come from OW PvE who also just care about legendaries have it easier in that sense because they don't care about combat and they just recap camps and avoid all pvp combat. Also they just stick to the 3 camps on home borderlands that are on the home side and the two camps that EB provides on your side.

But WvW is not PvP. It's very different and it's all about unequal sides. There's no escaping that.

9 hours ago, zonias.1083 said:

But lately i been quite frustrated because roaming can be really annoying. I play shortbow revenant, and i am pretty decent, i have full legendary gear and run everything, as a consequence i will most likely kill anyone 1 vs 1 when i am flipping a camp or getting some guard. but i find really annoying how it is almost impossible to fight when multiple groups just pile on me and i find it really frustrating that even though i am better i die because of numbers. 

There's a reason why people who aren't as good as you at PvP bring friends. That's the only way they can beat you and it's perfectly legitimate because aside from just camps, they are strategic objectives. It's NOT PvP. I can't stress that enough. If you lose a 1v1 you bring friends the next time. That makes sense in WvW. 

I'm not saying there aren't issues in WvW, but I feel like you don't really understand WvW. And I don't think anybody in WvW thinks there aren't enough roamers, so there's no need to make roaming more popular.

Your suggestion of what you think would be a good idea, is just not a good idea. You basically want to make players scale like world bosses. No, just no. 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Gehenna.3625

[MysteryDude.1572]

I have an easier solution to your issue.

Go to duel spots in alpine and ask to be 2/3 v 1 ed. People there are usually better than the average blob potato. You either gonna get clapped or get your 1vx fix.

 

[Xenesis.6389]

On second thought I like this idea, to use against all those garbage ganker groups using fotm builds to hit up people 6v1.

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

On second thought I like this idea, to use against all those garbage ganker groups using fotm builds to hit up people 6v1.

Don't tease, you know that would only help; the baking-bailers, ball-bowlers, busted-bacons, something-something BB groups. Don't get my roamers nerfed anymore and I won't yours. 

Side note: I think there is a new Omega Golem drug hitting town, walked into a keep and found 20 waiting. Might have been a trap since as a defense junkie had to refresh them and then had to put them in lines and in places that made sense. Totally decoy for a  defense driven roamer that likes to havoc. WTW, bacon-treed by my own side.

[oatsnjuices.1698]

Personally, I would like to see the tank classes get nerfed to the ground. But for some reason, running around and pretending to fight is more fun to some than actually fighting, and those are the people with the loudest forum voices, even though they are not the majority. Also, zerg players get tons more rewards then roamers, now they also get the safety of being almost unkillable with the benefit of killing what would have been unkillable to them due to lack of hard earned skill.

I'm not that great of a player, but when better players were roaming around, I'd relentlessly hunt them. Now there's so few of them left. There was one I couldn't kill, man he was good. A newer player followed him into a camp and I decided to play "can you save the newby." I was able to down the newby, but the better player had a stun in his pocket and stopped my stomp and got the res, without the res i would have gotten the kill. He won, killed me and saved the day, but it was fun none the less. Some of those newbies open a can of woopin, this wasn't the case, but it was fun trying to send em to spawn before dieing to the better player.

Edited March 26, 2023 by oatsnjuices.1698

[Gorani.7205]

I don't like the up scale mechanic proposed by the OP, because
- WvW is unbalanced by design, whether you like it or not
- if you want to duel (against more than one foe), there are dual spots like south of the Alpine SC
- the few hours of Dev time that go to WvW can be spend on other more pressing problems

[Xenesis.6389]

9 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Don't tease, you know that would only help; the baking-bailers, ball-bowlers, busted-bacons, something-something BB groups. Don't get my roamers nerfed anymore and I won't yours. 

Side note: I think there is a new Omega Golem drug hitting town, walked into a keep and found 20 waiting. Might have been a trap since as a defense junkie had to refresh them and then had to put them in lines and in places that made sense. Totally decoy for a  defense driven roamer that likes to havoc. WTW, bacon-treed by my own side.

If scaling were to be introduced it should definitely only be allowed to happen in 1-5 players involved scenarios, anything above that you should be running away anyways or there's enough people around for a decent fight. Doubt it would be something they would do just for wvw though, so like much of anything related to wvw, moot subject anyways.

Side note: yeah definitely an abnormal amount of golems in that match last week...

[Dawdler.8521]

14 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Side note: yeah definitely an abnormal amount of golems in that match last week...

Wait, whats a normal amount of golems?

[Esufer.8762]

48 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Wait, whats a normal amount of golems?

4, and exclusively at north camp, obviously

[Xenesis.6389]

I saw like 6 or 7 at sbi nec that week. 🤷‍♂️ Leaving that many at a camp seems like a waste. Normally you'd see a bunch at garri or ebg keep, especially if you have permanent golem drivers, ET has a couple. At nearby camps maybe 1-3.

[Sinmir.6504]

I'm thinking someone could claim to be better(skilled/equipped or both) than either of the two people who just beat them would have been if it was 1v1. you're better, that's your advantage, they had numbers, that was theirs. A buff would give you another advantage.

I think for capping/deffending t would really change things. Defending a structure you already have walls, can put siege in hard to reach places, can be pretty hard for a small group to get anyway if you are careful. Should you get a buff to help on top of that because there ae more trying to get in? Then when the squad arrives to defend the enemy gets buffed, suddenly their siege gollem can punch a hole in the wall with one hit?

In PvP would you go solo against all 5 enemies at once? You wouldn't get a buff for trying it. Should it really be different in WvW?

Edited March 28, 2023 by Sinmir.6504

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:02 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Wait, whats a normal amount of golems?

Since the camp changes the golem counts have been going up. I admit when outnumbered and the other side is on the attack a valid defense has been to drain the camp before they go there and resupply so the golems are an efficient way to block them getting supplies. So get there before them, build golem, and port it out. Seeing more walls left damaged in keeps, the use of a golem defense has been also going up to give defenders more time to get there.