Willbender

[Sleepwalker.1398]

2 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

Who can match WB mobility?  lets see,

1. Thief - easily surpasses
2. Mesmer - yup
3. Warrior - with right weapons/skills
4. Ranger - with right weapons/skills
5. Ele - yup
6. Engi - easily surpasses
7. Necro - nah.
8. Revenant - Good chase, but overall, nah.

And if WB can't target anything to JI to, it's mobility is worse than all of the above.  Mmmm-maybe not necro.

WB is however extremely good at chasing.   JI and sword 2 need enemy targets for their full mobility, chasing is probably what WB most excels at.

Is this mobility race or fight?
If fight, so you listed Mesmer with yup....no right weapon/skill, care to explain how now that master of manipulation no longer gives superspeed or reduced cooldown on Blink. (please don't say use mimic, cos with stealth and mimic 2x blink will ooc you to mount and run or wp),
A distortion trait sword/staff mirage build with blink, mirage advance, signets, jaunt and 2x energy sigil  might be able to chase a WB but and good WB once knows both dodges been used will just JI and do a GS2 sneeze and mirage will die.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

4 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

Who can match WB mobility?  lets see,

1. Ele - yup

1. Staff - nope

2. Xxx / Focus - nope

3. Xxx / Warhorn - nope

4. Scepter / Dagger - nope

5. Sword / Dagger - nope

6. Hammer - nope

7. Dagger / Dagger - maybe by chaining fire 3, earth 3, air 4, lightning flash and a conjure of choice and then Willbender beats the rotation on cooldowns.

Whatever you're smoking has clouded your judgement...

Edited April 14, 2023 by MarzAttakz.9608

[Sonork.2916]

I suppose if you play a class and don't take their more mobile options then yes, you're right, they're not as mobile as a WB taking every movement option avaliable. 

But dare I say,  if a WB doesn't take all their mobility weapons/skills, they too aren't very mobile either. 

Shocking... right?  Classes that don't take all their mobility options aren't as mobile as classes that do?  Gasp!  Call the balance team!

Edited April 14, 2023 by Sonork.2916

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, Sonork.2916 said:

But dare I say,  if a WB doesn't take all their mobility weapons/skills, they too aren't very mobile either. 

Nice try, but even the F's skills are all mobility skills, you can't refuse to take them, and gives them more mobility than most other specs with just that. Look for a different avenue to defend your class, cause trying to argue their mobility is on par with every other spec is laughable.

🙄

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 4/12/2023 at 6:31 AM, Kaktus Jack.9730 said:

9k hp and Emergency Elixier popped(3k barrier and 3 seconds protection). This helped me survive the initial burst(which isn´t that high since he plays cele). Elixier S and U are important stunbreaks, but willbender only has soft-CC, so it doesn´t matter. And now pls explain to me why the fight was so close, when the only thing the willbender did was spamming attacks?

Edit: Also ignoring the fact that this dude has footman rank.

Rank means nothing in WvW. You could have a rather good sPvP player pop into WvW with a low rank. You could also have roamers that have low ranks yet they spent a good amount of time roaming so I wouldn't use rank alone as a trigger.

Side note on the prior comment I was referring to you being on paper, again disagree with paper balancing, as seen I think you didn't aid your case but actually probably did more to hurt engi's in this thread. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:40 PM, Choya.2687 said:

Well Willbender is perfect for selling EoD for WvW people.

(I won't talk about catalyst and harbinger)

Not sure I would put it that way. Willbender is a good example of Guard getting a 'catchem' build after all the time they faced other builds doing hit and runs on them. If you compare the other expansions this one started more pre-nerfed than HoT and PoF and received nerfs faster than the other expansions though it seemed to still have the pre-nerf everything else event we have seen before expansions, hence the wet noodle patch prelaunch. Granted I was testing with core and a lot of HoT builds and some PoF builds to fight against them before creating any waiting for their first couple of rounds of nerfs. A lot different feel during beta rounds to now if you played both.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

4 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

But dare I say,  if a WB doesn't take all their mobility weapons/skills, they too aren't very mobile either. 

 

Mate, all the weapons with mobility (GS & Sw/Sw) they take are hard hitting. 

Nice try defending the class.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

As long as Anet doesnt nerf WB in PvE (its garbage there), then I can deal with any reasonable nerf to Willy in PvP, having less ppl play the class I like just makes it all the more unique anyway.

Still, preferably plz dont touch mobility...nerfing willy mobility just means reducing it identity, since its Alac sharing is garbage, and its condi is <<< FB, it wud become too similar to DH.
Willy seems designed with mobility in mind, while sacrificing everything else.
If we nerf Willy mobility then the class has no purpose of existing anymore, we can just double down on taking other stuff away like Boon generation or Power ratios only in PvP settings.

Edited April 14, 2023 by MercurialKuroSludge.8974

[Burnfall.9573]

 

"Notes: Fix this please Anet. Huge hitbox because I really cba to grind requiem rng especially for a bugged bench, small should be 43k ish"

Bug

Guardian Profession-Vindicator  65K+

 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Sonork.2916]

9 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Mate, all the weapons with mobility (GS & Sw/Sw) they take are hard hitting. 

Nice try defending the class.

I never talked about WB weapon damage, i said those are the weapons WB have to use to get full mobility.  And when WBs don't take them, they're far less mobile.  Maybe re-read what I wrote... maybe a few times?  I see there are some confused emotes there, if you read what I wrote enough, you may grasp what i explained.  Talking about just mobility here.

 

12 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Nice try, but even the F's skills are all mobility skills, you can't refuse to take them, and gives them more mobility than most other specs with just that. Look for a different avenue to defend your class, cause trying to argue their mobility is on par with every other spec is laughable.

🙄

What if i told you a Warrior's GS 3 and 5 give them almost as much mobility as all the WB's F skills combined?  How would you feel about that?  Would you rethink your reply?  Or just stick with it?

Edited April 14, 2023 by Sonork.2916

[Xenesis.6389]

6 minutes ago, Sonork.2916 said:

What if i told you a Warrior's GS 3 and 5 give them almost as much mobility as all the WB's F skills combined?  How would you feel about that?  Would you rethink your reply?  Or just stick with it?

What if I told you if a Willbender also puts on dual swords and still has a mobility advantage because of their F skills? How would you feel about that? Would you rethink your reply? Or just stick with it?

Go ahead and point out utility skills next, I'm sure I have a reply for that too.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Xenesis.6389

[Sonork.2916]

2 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

What if I told you if a Willbender also puts on dual swords and still has a mobility advantage because of their F skills? How would you feel about that? Would you rethink your reply? Or just stick with it?

Yeah i said that with the right weapons, ss/gs WB is very mobile.  but they lose that mobility if they don't use those specific weapons.  And that many classes have weapons that offer good mobility.   And if you think WB is in some league if it's own in regards to mobility.  You're simply wrong.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

"Notes: Fix this please Anet. Huge hitbox because I really cba to grind requiem rng especially for a bugged bench, small should be 43k ish"

Bug

Guardian Profession-Vindicator  65K+

 

 

Guardian? How does a Revenant Vindicator tie in here? Or are you just saying you would prefer time to be spent on correcting PvE balance issues on the Revenant? You have me here, not sure what you mean.

[Burnfall.9573]

2 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Guardian? How does a Revenant Vindicator tie in here? Or are you just saying you would prefer time to be spent on correcting PvE balance issues on the Revenant? You have me here, not sure what you mean.

 

I miss posted it here. It is Revenant Profession. Thank You!

 

[Sleepwalker.1398]

3 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

I never talked about WB weapon damage, i said those are the weapons WB have to use to get full mobility.  And when WBs don't take them, they're far less mobile.  Maybe re-read what I wrote... maybe a few times?  I see there are some confused emotes there, if you read what I wrote enough, you may grasp what i explained.  Talking about just mobility here.

 

With great mobility, comes great power.

And i am telling you the weapons with mobility have skills that are hard hitting...do you not understand?

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

6 hours ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

As long as Anet doesnt nerf WB in PvE (its garbage there), then I can deal with any reasonable nerf to Willy in PvP, having less ppl play the class I like just makes it all the more unique anyway.

See that's the thing. Willbender was buffed recently because of PvE. But it spilled over to WvW and that was just annoying because it was not necessary.

This keeps happening because sometimes they split changes but most of the time they don't because lazy, though I suppose they never take anything outside of WvW zergs for balance towards WvW.

Of course I don't think that's been brought up because people don't even know what it is and thus what's going on.

In the last patch, Willbenders can overlap all virtues. Previously if you used one virtue effect, using another would overwrite the effects. This was so they could do more damage in pve, as well as making Alacbender more playable. However, the problem with Alacbender is that it is inherently terrible design since it requires 2 traits (one from outside Willbender) to even work. Without taking Battle Presence in Virtues, you only give alacrity to yourself and in PvE that is very pointless.  So they did all this crap to cover the mistakes.

But when fighting other players, this makes it much more braindead because now you can now inflict burning, aegis, healing, and whatever vomit there exists by spamming more.

Willbender also has rather low cooldowns on their virtues too; this makes them into a new level of obnoxious that not even Firebrand can match, so there is no way to really make them waste cooldowns with their mobility. In PvP, willbenders only have 1 charge on their f2. But in WvW it is untouched and honestly has no real reason to exist as such.

But wait! Guardians have a low health pool! They should be squishy if they run out of blocks. I just need to hit them after they cast all their virtues and dance around for 15 seconds.  And you can definitely wail on them if they're running marauders, if they don't get away. But there's this thing called Celestial gear.

Of course, Willbenders don't have passive Guardian effects. But those effects are generally small outside of the f1 passive for damage, which because of PvE is the only thing that mattered there. And so that spills over.

 

 

So it's not simply a power issue, but also Anet making the class more braindead, and arguably the entire patch is full of stuff like this.

Though to be fair, it's hard for them to get feedback when players fight each other, since it's often braindead players fighting other braindead players, and whoever loses demands their build be even more braindead to win.

And that is why competitive game modes are often considered a joke by any one outside the bubble.

edit: But then again I guess we're  not like crying over who clears strikes (not even raids) 5 seconds faster in PvE though. I don't know why we would balance the game based on players that get kicked in groups not because of the class they play, but because they're really barely playing the game at all. Those players are going to get kicked anyways, so their goal is just to remove any challenging content at all.

Edited April 14, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Math.5123]

On 4/14/2023 at 10:39 AM, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Mate, all the weapons with mobility (GS & Sw/Sw) they take are hard hitting. 

Nice try defending the class.

Yes, they are hard hitting because they have literally zero defensive skills throughout the entire weapon kit.

Also extremely limited utility, basically only 2 blinds and an immob. Gs5 is aight too I guess the 1 in 10 times it actually connects.

 

If those weapons did the same damage as say a scepter focus ele, that would've been crazy. 

[Bookah pls.9352]

8 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Yes, they are hard hitting because they have literally zero defensive skills throughout the entire weapon kit.

Also extremely limited utility, basically only 2 blinds and an immob. Gs5 is aight too I guess the 1 in 10 times it actually connects.

 

If those weapons did the same damage as say a scepter focus ele, that would've been crazy. 

"Literally zero defensive skills throughout the entire weapon kit"

• Greatsword 3 has blind
• Greatsword 4 gives resolution
• Greatsword 5 has a pull
• Sword 2 has blind
• Sword 3 is projectile block
• Sword 5 has 4 second slow and immob
• You can afford to run cleansing, energy and hydro sigils on these weapons offering more defensive benefits

That's on top of being a spec that has access to multiple condi cleanses, invuln, aegis, stab, prot, regen, resistance and can even apply weakness, ON TOP OF HAVING two stun breaks, leaps and two teleports and multiple sources of swiftness.

How much more defensive options do you think the weapons deserve exactly?

[Kal Durak.2830]

On 4/8/2023 at 5:25 AM, aiinseinn.5914 said:

i will stop playing against willbender till they get nerved .. its awfull ..

 

have fun guys

Just had a Willbender from BG wipe 20 of us in Squad with 80k damage, we all were downed.  FIX THIS! BS  We were not even fighting, he just teleported and whiped us. 

[MalekithDG.6124]

16 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Yes, they are hard hitting because they have literally zero defensive skills throughout the entire weapon kit.

Also extremely limited utility, basically only 2 blinds and an immob. Gs5 is aight too I guess the 1 in 10 times it actually connects.

 

If those weapons did the same damage as say a scepter focus ele, that would've been crazy. 

Zero defending skills he said OMEGALOOL... Bro none ever killed a willbender in their life 💀 Class downplayers are the worst lol. These guys are so bad at the game but also so delusional to think that they are achieving great things with their unbalanced build. Im %100 sure if willbender ever gets the nerf it deserves this guy will switch to Cata/Tempest Elementalist or Harbringer 😄😄 😄 Nothing short of that will suffice to hide their gameplay otherwise. Maybe I am being immensely toxic and harsh here but I cant help it, I am fed up with this balancing on top of which comes cata and willbender sorry.

Edited April 16, 2023 by MalekithDG.6124

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, Areoh.7495 said:

Just had a Willbender from BG wipe 20 of us in Squad with 80k damage, we all were downed.  FIX THIS! BS  We were not even fighting, he just teleported and whiped us. 

Cant imagine how you feel about the times when 10 players casually wiped squads of 50 players with a stealth bomb, because the whole squad was asleep.

Anyway 1 player wiping 20 with an aoe cap of 5 target seems really unlikely. Were you all afk?

[Math.5123]

19 hours ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

"Literally zero defensive skills throughout the entire weapon kit"

• Greatsword 3 has blind
• Greatsword 4 gives resolution
• Greatsword 5 has a pull
• Sword 2 has blind
• Sword 3 is projectile block
• Sword 5 has 4 second slow and immob
• You can afford to run cleansing, energy and hydro sigils on these weapons offering more defensive benefits

That's on top of being a spec that has access to multiple condi cleanses, invuln, aegis, stab, prot, regen, resistance and can even apply weakness, ON TOP OF HAVING two stun breaks, leaps and two teleports and multiple sources of swiftness.

How much more defensive options do you think the weapons deserve exactly?

Standing still in a gs4 for resolution isn't what I would consider a defensive skill. 

A blind isn't a defensive skill. 

If anything that's utility, and a stretch calling a pulsing 1s resolution utility.

 

In my opinion, which you don't have to agree with. Defensive skills are stuff like Obsidian flesh, swirling winds, shield block, ranger gs4, rev staff 3 etc.

 

I would trade any of those for a single blind in terms of defensive output on a build. I did say the guard weapon sets have some utility. Mostly in blinds and teleports. But calling them defensive weapons is just hypocritical. 

 

Hydro sigil is a pure offensive sigil, so not really sure what you're referring to here. No one picks that for the chill lmao.

 

If you could please link this build you're talking about that has access to all that while still having this giga mobility everyone is talking about that'd be great. 

 

Just listing everything in a vacuum will literally make every class sound beyond busted.

[ArchonWing.9480]

11 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

If anything that's utility, and a stretch calling a pulsing 1s resolution utility.

Bruh upkeeping resolution is the core of how dps guardian works. That's half the point of taking greatsword-- you can get perma resolution without having to waste (too many) virtues. Resolution is also reduced condi damage and you are supposed to be standing in it for more than 1 tick. Without resolution you're gimping yourself out of 25% crit, 10% damage,  and 8 stacks of might That's how WBs are blowing people up.

 

I don't even run greatsword because I don't like it but come on now. One of the reasons is there's enough mobility already lol as Xenesis implied. GS just happens to be good synergy and also leap of faith is a bit broken atm.

You might be correct that there are no other mobility weapons but I really just don't see 1 single leap making or breaking a build. On other less mobile specs I'd even agree but 1 leap is much less meaningful when you have 4 by default, as opposed to 0 on core/fb and 1 on dh.

I mean sure you can have stuff like nike warrior or Mechanists with traited rocket boots + teleport signet. However the moment you see these, you know they're traited for runaway and usually aren't big threats besides being a one trick. While going for max mobility on a WB is standard.

Edited April 17, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Math.5123]

11 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Bruh upkeeping resolution is the core of how dps guardian works. That's half the point of taking greatsword-- you can get perma resolution without having to waste (too many) virtues. Resolution is also reduced condi damage and you are supposed to be standing in it for more than 1 tick. Without resolution you're gimping yourself out of 25% crit, 10% damage,  and 8 stacks of might That's how WBs are blowing people up.

 

I don't even run greatsword because I don't like it but come on now. One of the reasons is there's enough mobility already lol as Xenesis implied. GS just happens to be good synergy and also leap of faith is a bit broken atm.

You might be correct that there are no other mobility weapons but I really just don't see 1 single leap making or breaking a build. On other less mobile specs I'd even agree but 1 leap is much less meaningful when you have 4 by default, as opposed to 0 on core/fb and 1 on dh.

I mean sure you can have stuff like nike warrior or Mechanists with traited rocket boots + teleport signet. However the moment you see these, you know they're traited for runaway and usually aren't big threats besides being a one trick. While going for max mobility on a WB is standard.

You absolutely does not need gs to upkeep perma resolution. And saying that shows how little you understand the class.

 

A single trait, top first trait in zeal is enough to upkeep perma resolution and fury. (I think it's called wrathful spirit, but I'm on phone and can't be arsed to check).

 

Regardless if you consider pulsing 1s a defensive ability or not. Under no circumstances is gs a defensive weapon lmao.

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

You absolutely does not need gs to upkeep perma resolution. And saying that shows how little you understand the class.

I said without wasting virtues, not that you need gs to keep resolution. Though I should have said other abilities.

2 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

A single trait, top first trait in zeal is enough to upkeep perma resolution and fury. (I think it's called wrathful spirit, but I'm on phone and can't be arsed to check).

That requires you to output aegis. I mean, that's a little less convenient than putting down a symbol. It is part of your rotation

Not to mention that requires running zeal/radiance and thus losing resolution on virtue cast as well as a bunch of other things  so please come up with a real example if you understand this class so much.

 

2 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Regardless if you consider pulsing 1s a defensive ability or not. Under no circumstances is gs a defensive weapon lmao.

Yea nobody said GS was a defensive weapon either.

You said

  

On 4/15/2023 at 8:40 PM, MalekithDG.6124 said:

literally zero defensive skills throughout the entire weapon kit.

Contradicting this claim doesn't make it a defensive weapon.

Edited April 17, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480