Please unNerf Daily WvW Objective Defender

[Zyreva.1078]

Did some testing today and it reinforced my theory. Tagging a bunch of attacking players together with an allied zerg inside bay granted me credit for like 1/~4 defense events. Moved to the outside to kill respawns  - got credit for every single defense event.

So i guess if you want guaranteed defense credit - gotte leave your zergs for once and do some stuff on your own ...

Edited May 1, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Infusion.7149]

Do not call it a nerf it is a bug.

Killing players using a treb or cata inside your keep should never be zero credit. It should be at least bronze tier event participation.

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Did some testing today and it reinforced my theory. Tagging a bunch of attacking players together with an allied zerg inside bay granted me credit for like 1/~4 defense events. Moved to the outside to kill respawns  - got credit for every single defense event.

So i guess if you want guaranteed defense credit - gotte leave your zergs for once and do some stuff on your own ...

Roam most of the time and it's still random. I know they don't want to share details but that just makes it look buggy. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624

[Zepoolpe.9217]

36 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Roam most of the time and it's still random. I know they don't want to share details but that just makes it look buggy. 

Raising the lord/supervisor or killing at least one of the attacker if it has been killed usually grant it (with emphasis on "usually") but it seems that yo have to still be in the area to get the credit (and by area I am not sure if it is only the area were you can see the timer countdown, but i don't know if it still works if you are still within the "colour" borders of the map).
I've tested it for the past few days and if you go to another keep/tower/camp after raising the lord or killing an attacker, the daily is not triggered, which is silly if you consider that if you kill a keep/tower/camp guard but don't flip the structure, you get rewarded the moment it is , even if it's hours afterwards.

[Ashen.2907]

15 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Did some testing today and it reinforced my theory. Tagging a bunch of attacking players together with an allied zerg inside bay granted me credit for like 1/~4 defense events. Moved to the outside to kill respawns  - got credit for every single defense event.

So i guess if you want guaranteed defense credit - gotte leave your zergs for once and do some stuff on your own ...

I divide my time fairly evenly between roaming and running with my guild team. Ive not received credit in the solo situations such as you describe. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Zyreva.1078]

9 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Roam most of the time and it's still random. I know they don't want to share details but that just makes it look buggy. 

4 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I divide my time fairly evenly between roaming and running with my guild team. Ive not received credit in the solo situations such as you describe. 

Are you doing the roaming and killing part on your own tho? Because most "roamers" i see don't. Not being in a party/squad and being solo gets mixed up sometimes but it's not the same.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[TheGrimm.5624]

Just now, Zyreva.1078 said:

Are you doing the roaming and killing part on your own tho? Because most "roamers" i see don't. Not being in a party/squad and being solo gets mixed up sometimes but it's not the same.

Solo, not in squad/party for the instances I refer to.

[Zyreva.1078]

11 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Solo, not in squad/party for the instances I refer to.

Being in a party/squad or not is irrelevant. So that still leaves me unsure what you mean with "solo".

Anyway, i have just stated my own experience. Ofc i don't know what's actually going on in the background.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Aerthan.1907]

The issue is either buggy or random. Humans try to apply patterns to chaos even when the patterns aren't actually there so people are constantly coming up with a solution only to find out that just because it worked one time that doesn't mean it will work the next day.

 

To me it looks to be random. I swap between dps with lots of aoe and support, very little damage and it doesn't seem like I'm more likely to get credit in either situation. The minimum:

• Timer has to be up and visible on your UI. If there is no timer you have no chance
• Opposing player has to take damage while the timer is up and within range of the timer. It doesn't seem to matter as much if the player dies by the timer. Even if they run away and eventually die you might get credit. I've also seen an instance where I hit someone before the timer went up, they ran away before the timer came up and I eventually got credit because they eventually took damage during a timer and eventually died..

If you do those two things you might get credit. The percentages seem pretty low, definitely less than 50%. If you can kill more than one player it looks like you get a chance for each kill. Kill 5-10 people you're almost guaranteed credit. (helps if you don't die a lot)

[Infusion.7149]

49 minutes ago, Aerthan.1907 said:

The issue is either buggy or random. Humans try to apply patterns to chaos even when the patterns aren't actually there so people are constantly coming up with a solution only to find out that just because it worked one time that doesn't mean it will work the next day.

 

To me it looks to be random. I swap between dps with lots of aoe and support, very little damage and it doesn't seem like I'm more likely to get credit in either situation. The minimum:

• Timer has to be up and visible on your UI. If there is no timer you have no chance
• Opposing player has to take damage while the timer is up and within range of the timer. It doesn't seem to matter as much if the player dies by the timer. Even if they run away and eventually die you might get credit. I've also seen an instance where I hit someone before the timer went up, they ran away before the timer came up and I eventually got credit because they eventually took damage during a timer and eventually died..

If you do those two things you might get credit. The percentages seem pretty low, definitely less than 50%. If you can kill more than one player it looks like you get a chance for each kill. Kill 5-10 people you're almost guaranteed credit. (helps if you don't die a lot)

I do not think it is fully random but it is woefully inconsistent to the point of people considering it buggy. At the inception of the first rewards scaling patch I already noted that several times (multiple defense events in a row) I had used a cannon multiple times and received WXP from kills on people within a keep and it did not register even bronze event participation. I thought maybe it may be different code for alpine than desert BL but I have not been able to confirm this. At the time I reported this on the forums in response to the official objective scaling thread most people mainly concerned with rewards were farming SMC outer repairs so the issue was not really brought to light, people just considered repairing as reward insurance.

Currently it cannot be attributed to people getting out of combat, it has to be something to do with what the killed player is doing.

[Ashen.2907]

3 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Are you doing the roaming and killing part on your own tho? Because most "roamers" i see don't. Not being in a party/squad and being solo gets mixed up sometimes but it's not the same.

When I roam I do so solo and get my own kills.

Not to say that Ive never headed to the same objective at the same time someone else is headed there but when I specifically want to play with others I join a group.

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Being in a party/squad or not is irrelevant. So that still leaves me unsure what you mean with "solo".

Anyway, i have just stated my own experience. Ofc i don't know what's actually going on in the background.

Party/squad is relevant if the action trigger is on group activity/actions. I use solo as alone. I mention out of group or squad to remove the variable of the a group trigger to an event or action. Again, coding for random is not easy. The best random generators use barometric pressure as a factor in random rolls. But coding random is not as much a thing and kind of hard to do, so its a matter of findings patterns to define the code when you can't see it.

[Avengedeath.4671]

something needs to be done here.  I defended set on alpine bl, killed the 2 attackers, cleared their siege, no credit for tower defender.  then i went to red bl, killed two attackers at set, cleared their siege no credit for tower defender.  does it have to be more than 2 attackers?  plz explain anet.  thank you

[Aerthan.1907]

On 5/3/2023 at 12:56 AM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Party/squad is relevant if the action trigger is on group activity/actions. I use solo as alone. I mention out of group or squad to remove the variable of the a group trigger to an event or action. Again, coding for random is not easy. The best random generators use barometric pressure as a factor in random rolls. But coding random is not as much a thing and kind of hard to do, so its a matter of findings patterns to define the code when you can't see it.

 

They are already coding for random with the loot bags. Though to be fair the random chance is quite a bit higher to get a loot bag than a tower defense. (Happens all the time actually)

[Lagniappe.4869]

Joined wvw for the first time after monday reset, defended bay and garri in zerg on zerg fights for at least 4 defense timers back to back. Got kills every time, 38 in total because invader incinerator was zero'd out and I get keep keeper credit ONCE.

Update: left garri and one enemy ran into tower guards triggering the defense event and was killed immediately including being tagged by me. no tower defense credit.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Lagniappe.4869

[babana.7521]

There is no need to do anything about this defender achievement, it is not bugged and its not hard to get either. Just play the game. 

 

going to make a comparison

I don't play pve much, never Raid/Dungeon/Fractal  Daily, do I asked ArenaNet to nerf Raid/Dungeon/Fractal daily so I can get it done easy (for me)? Pretty sure load of players can Raid/Dungeon/Fractal  daily easily. But I can't, because I don't play those mode, but if I wanted to and find it hard to accomplish, I do not ask for that mode to be fix to suit my needs.

Edited May 23, 2023 by babana.7521

[Lagniappe.4869]

Quote

I do not ask for that mode to be fix to suit my needs

Who asked for that? I didn't.

[babana.7521]

38 minutes ago, Lagniappe.4869 said:

Who asked for that? I didn't.

Exactly, so why are there many post asking WvW to be dumbed down for players?

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

Exactly, so why are there many post asking WvW to be dumbed down for players?

I don't actually even pay attention to the events until the threads started popping up and then started doing so. To a normal player if they were watching the actions would seem buggy. "I killed a player attacking a lord and got no credit." as a player that would seem off. "I killed a player entering an objective, and got no credit". Also would seem off. Again it seems that the repair action was masking defense event triggers and hence why people say something is off. Again I don't care about the events but would agree, that seems like something is off. Considering we don't have the offense events yet trying to figure out why the defense events are off might be a good idea to correct the coding for the offense side else we leave more players saying, WTW!? Not a game programmer but a logistics one and coding random is not easy so its not random at work.

[MaLong.2079]

We should get credit for just being at the tower while it is contested, provided that it is not captured before the timer runs out. That's it.

ANET changed the repair thing because supplies were being wasted just for the achievement, and I agree that it was problem.

But it was a problem only because supplies were being wasted. Not because some people were getting the achievement easily.

[Draygo.9473]

Afking in an objective should not get you credit for defense. Thats silly. 

[MaLong.2079]

19 minutes ago, Draygo.9473 said:

Afking in an objective should not get you credit for defense. Thats silly. 

Nah, whoever wants to get the achievement that way can do it for all I care.

It is more important to make sure that the players that are actually playing the game get the rewards. Which is not guaranteed now.

[Draygo.9473]

I get the sentiment, but making it work an entirely different way than before is a much harder change. I would rather Anet focus their obviously limited resources on actually just fixing the bug. 

[Chichimec.9364]

14 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

There is no need to do anything about this defender achievement, it is not bugged and its not hard to get either. Just play the game. 

 

going to make a comparison

I don't play pve much, never Raid/Dungeon/Fractal  Daily, do I asked ArenaNet to nerf Raid/Dungeon/Fractal daily so I can get it done easy (for me)? Pretty sure load of players can Raid/Dungeon/Fractal  daily easily. But I can't, because I don't play those mode, but if I wanted to and find it hard to accomplish, I do not ask for that mode to be fix to suit my needs.

It's nice that you haven't been having issues with the defense participation mechanics but a number of other folks, including me, find that those mechanics seem badly broken. There have been a number of threads on this forum about these problems with person  after person describing how wonky the participation credit seems to be. I can't speak for others of course, but I can relate what I've seen. Generally I run for two hours a day, five to seven days a week in WvW, with a squad whose size can vary from twenty-five to fifty, depending on the  day and on which other tags are running. We defend keeps and towers whenever necessary during our run.

Since repairing walls stopped giving defense credit what I've seen and what others in the squad talk about on an almost daily basis is how broken those mechanics are. When we are defending a keep or tower, some of our folks will get credit for defending while others of us don't, even though  we are fighting and killing the same enemies. That happens again and again. When we are defending, I never know if I will get credit for the defense until the timer runs out. Then there are the times we are fighting inside a keep or tower, sometimes in the Lord's room, and the timer doesn't even come up. On the other hand, there are times like today. Forty of us rolled into our base camp to grab supply and we managed to catch a couple of enemies trying to cap the camp. Forty vs two, it didn't end well for them, and a few minutes later I got credit for the  Objective Defender daily. That cracked me up. 😂

10 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I don't actually even pay attention to the events until the threads started popping up and then started doing so. To a normal player if they were watching the actions would seem buggy. "I killed a player attacking a lord and got no credit." as a player that would seem off. "I killed a player entering an objective, and got no credit". Also would seem off. Again it seems that the repair action was masking defense event triggers and hence why people say something is off. Again I don't care about the events but would agree, that seems like something is off. Considering we don't have the offense events yet trying to figure out why the defense events are off might be a good idea to correct the coding for the offense side else we leave more players saying, WTW!? Not a game programmer but a logistics one and coding random is not easy so its not random at work.

Grimm may be on to  something  about how repairing giving defense credit may have been masking bugs in the defense participation mechanics. I know that before, when repairing walls gave defense credit, our squad made a point  of repairing a wall before moving on to insure that we got credit, and  that usually seemed to work. I understand why Anet changed that and I don't know if repairing should start giving defense credit again. Getting defense credit is so irregular and spotty these days though, that people, including me, have been asking Anet to fix these issues.

[Aerthan.1907]

18 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

There is no need to do anything about this defender achievement, it is not bugged and its not hard to get either. Just play the game. 

 

If it's not bugged then it's random and a different randomization than getting a loot bag. It shouldn't be random, if you're within a timer and damage someone that goes down you should get credit. Even if it's a 50/50 chance per kill you can still kill 10 people on lord and not get credit (that happened to me in a keep).