Stone Heart nerfs were overkill

[Seventh Ranger.3968]

I agree with it being nerfed, it was way too strong in PvP, but the degree to which it was pummeled into the ground and then kicked while it was down, even in PvE, is just spiteful. We went from consistent 100% uptime as long as you were in Earth (which was admittedly too strong) to 5 seconds every 14 seconds, if you manage it perfectly. In my opinion, it should have been changed to pulsing Protection while in Earth Attunement instead, that way it would've preserved the consistency of always being harder to kill while in Earth (which to me is the main focus of that attunement), while also allowing enemies to still crit you and even rip or corrupt your source of consistent damage reduction. The trait could've even included a Protection removal effect of some kind when leaving Earth Attunement, like Pyromancer's Puissance, if the devs were worried about people stacking up tons of Protection with boon duration, and then carrying it over to other attunements. Instead they just absolutely gutted the trait, even in PvE.

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Its a ridiculous trait to begin with for PvE. Im not sure exactly how crit chance works for enemy mobs, but in general id say crit chance varies between like 0-5% tops meaning the trait is completely useless. I think the main problem of the trait wasnt necessarily that it was overpowered across the board, but instead that it was targeting 1 specific build concept and hardcounter it (crit focused power builds). If Anet wants to get rid of hard counter effects it would've been better to get rid of the crit immunity all together. The crit immunity will never be properly balanced. It will either be very OP or completely useless depending on the trait balances and wether power or condi is meta at that time. 

[Jski.6180]

Earth line is kind of pointless in pve when they put an icd on roots applying bleed.

[zeyeti.8347]

Should make it a flat -15 or -10 % strike damage taken .

I am not a pvp/wvw player so i don't care , but 3 secondes into earth then 1 secondes exiting earth ... man thats not a nerf , thats a sink ...

I hope earth traitline is in the target for the next patch , because it's kind of trash atm . Even for condi dps , playing fire and arcane can do pretty much the same job .

[MarzAttakz.9608]

What I really dislike now is that the timer expires before I can even begin an Earth overload. Off topic but why the kitten the exaggerated delay before being able to overload or swap in combat (to prevent attunement swap procs, add an internal timer to those events).

[jcH.7109]

4 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Earth line is kind of pointless in pve when they put an icd on roots applying bleed.

No, earth traitline is good if you want to play condi weaver in fractals/raids/strikes. It could be better, sure, but it is not pointless.

Edited May 5, 2023 by jcH.7109

[Stallic.2397]

They could've changed conjures also instead of nerfing stone heart into the ground.

 

In pvp, that's how tempests were becoming unkillable. Take stone heart, gain added vitality and toughness from wearing earth shield, then perform an earth overload to gain projectile reflection and prot. Yes, all those things together create an unkillable machine

 

Nerfing a trait to uselessness is pretty much Anet's philosophy, but rather than doing that, they could've reworked conjures like everyone's been asking for in the first place. They're so outdated and the added stats could've been removed for better buffs elsewhere; let's say, more utility amongst the weapons (more evade skills, quality of life upgrades like better boons or quicker attack speed). 

 

But no, that's too much work. I mean, the devs just work there. Amirite? So, instead we have another trait that is useless. A grandmaster at that. 

[Helgaley.3619]

It's definitely heavy handed and lazy, but that's pretty typical for how they balance Elementalist. There were so many other ways they could have approached this problem, but they picked the one that created the least amount of work for them, and implemented it across all game modes even though it was only an issue in PVP. 

 

I really hope the June patch and their decision to not add more elite specs is going to lead to some positive and equitable changes to Elementalist. I understand the complexity makes it hard to balance, but it's also a class that always has to give more to achieve the same results that other classes get for less effort, and the way Anet balances Elementalist always makes that problem worse instead of better. You have to do more complex rotations to get the same DPS output as other classes, sacrifice more damage and utility to get the same survivability as other classes, and this change is just going to make things worse. 

[Edu.6984]

I prefer the effect been on swap instead of camping earth, but the duration is too short. Increase it a little bit and the trait becomes amazing. 

[apharma.3741]

4 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

They could've changed conjures also instead of nerfing stone heart into the ground.

 

In pvp, that's how tempests were becoming unkillable. Take stone heart, gain added vitality and toughness from wearing earth shield, then perform an earth overload to gain projectile reflection and prot. Yes, all those things together create an unkillable machine

 

Nerfing a trait to uselessness is pretty much Anet's philosophy, but rather than doing that, they could've reworked conjures like everyone's been asking for in the first place. They're so outdated and the added stats could've been removed for better buffs elsewhere; let's say, more utility amongst the weapons (more evade skills, quality of life upgrades like better boons or quicker attack speed). 

 

But no, that's too much work. I mean, the devs just work there. Amirite? So, instead we have another trait that is useless. A grandmaster at that. 

ding ding ding, we have a winner.
I said the same thing but it falls on deaf ears.

The best part, an ele camping earth is an ele that isn't helping their team. I never used the trait personally but now they have to balance around the in and out bonus and how that interacts with weaver. Can't make the attune bonus too long or weaver gets spill over but too short and it's basically useless.

Who's betting we get stone heart split based on elite spec now where tempest it lasts 5-6s and everyone else it's 2-3s?

[MarzAttakz.9608]

1 hour ago, apharma.3741 said:

Who's betting we get stone heart split based on elite spec now where tempest it lasts 5-6s and everyone else it's 2-3s?

I could live with that.

[Downstate.4697]

Would of preferred it be like a flat 20% damage reduction while attuned to earth. Maybe it will change in 5 years

 

[zeyeti.8347]

11 hours ago, jcH.7109 said:

No, earth traitline is good if you want to play condi weaver in fractals/raids/strikes. It could be better, sure, but it is not pointless.

Ofc because there is nothing else to take , but playing arcane instead of earth with sharing arcane power conditions with allies (which i recently discovered) is not that big of a deal , ....

I mean only line 1 is good in earth traitline as dps , the rest is literally no use , only the +20% bleed duration and damage +5% are good , line 2 give you roughtly +100 condi damage ... , and line 3 give your fire signet a  lower cooldown and let you have it's passiv forever (yeah +180 crit.chance as condi ...) , ... franckly thats very underwhelming... 

There is very few good traits for a condi build with ele , even in fire it's not that great , burning rage being the only good too... , 33% chance to set on fire every 5 sec if you crit .. (the +20% burn though is good) and having firefield increase duration and increasing your strike damage , super usefull as condi ...

Also there is only one fire gm trait , being persistent flames , the two other are complete trash/jokes, i mean we could use a +x% burn damage replacing pyromancer puissance or the other one .

Edited May 6, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[MasterDeere.3417]

They should just do a complete rework of earth traits line. 

[pallas.8150]

I mean Stone Heart could just be a +300 Vitality (like Guardian Force of Will Grandmaster Trait) and -10% strike damage. /shrug

Ele trait lines have needed a severe overhaul for years now.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by pallas.8150

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Stone heart is still being taken because it's still good. Pre-nerf, it was ridiculous. If you think the nerf was too heavy handed, it's because you were relying on the trait as a crutch to mask your mistakes. Adapt.

 

 

[Helgaley.3619]

3 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Stone heart is still being taken because it's still good. Pre-nerf, it was ridiculous. If you think the nerf was too heavy handed, it's because you were relying on the trait as a crutch to mask your mistakes. Adapt.

 

 

Stone Heart is still being taken because there are literally zero alternatives for a meaningful boost to survivability. Also, even though Anet specifically said it was a problem in PVP, they nerfed it in all game modes. 

[soulknight.9620]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:30 PM, jcH.7109 said:

No, earth traitline is good if you want to play condi weaver in fractals/raids/strikes. It could be better, sure, but it is not pointless.

Dont want to be bearer of the bad news, but arcane has quite similar impact on the dps and provides more utility. The difference is a few % which you will not even notice in real fights. 

[DivineDreaming.7206]

I dunno, I'm still pretty invincible on meta staff ele tempest healer in Spvp, got me into plat after the nerfs, death ratio is low still. I hardly feel the nerf in Spvp. 

[Stallic.2397]

18 hours ago, DivineDreaming.7206 said:

I dunno, I'm still pretty invincible on meta staff ele tempest healer in Spvp, got me into plat after the nerfs, death ratio is low still. I hardly feel the nerf in Spvp. 

The standard staff tempest support build?