looking back 10 years, i wish i had rolled an ele or necro

[Sobx.1758]

21 hours ago, Halandir.3609 said:

So... Most players make the most of every class in the game and their specializations in this game?
Cool. This game sounds like a really simple and very special MMO. Thank you Captain Anet!

Cool, so... what does ability to reroll to another class (even moreso when OP clearly already limited his choices to two) have to do with "making most of every class and their spec"?

[Ruisenior.6342]

On 5/7/2023 at 7:58 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, those times in first years where being a necro (or a ranger) might have gotten you kicked from a dungeon party did not exist. Duly noted.

Ive been maining ranger since i started with this game back in 2013, and ive never been kicked out of any party. I used to fill my skill bar with spirits back then when they followed you and wielding gs/axe-axe or axe-warhorn.

Good times

Edited May 9, 2023 by Ruisenior.6342

[Infusion.7149]

Good joke.

Necro was irrelevant up until scourge. Elementalist had its heyday around core through HOT when raids came up, then when POF came out it was irrelevant for the most part.

Warrior has been relevant since core up until the banner rework, it is usable now but is not a preferred source of quickness. Engi is currently meta with mechanist and scrapper is a solid quickness option when power quickness is better than condi quickness.

[Astralporing.1957]

22 hours ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

Ive been maining ranger since i started with this game back in 2013, and ive never been kicked out of any party. I used to fill my skill bar with spirits back then when they followed you and wielding gs/axe-axe or axe-warhorn.

Good times

I was maining a bearbow, and yet haven't been kicked either... but that does not mean that it was not something that happened to others. For me, i was very selective in groups i joined and avoided the ones with restrictions like fire. And if you don't join groups that advertise themselves as "no rangers" (and there were a lot of those), then, obviously, the likelihood of you getting kicked for being a ranger does drop significantly.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Lighter.5631]

yea it is definitely a big regret for many.

majority rerolled, most just multi class, you barely see a warrior only main, but you see other classes only main often.

for the first 9 years you are only stuck as banner slave

with literally 0 gameplay style differences from very other build

offhand dagger plays like offhand axe plays like offhand pistol.

it is the only class that with 3 elite specs, yet no new play style. first two elite specs literally play the same as core, while bladesworn is still the same ramping-up power dps that's not very mobile just in a different fashion. same hitting the power up button, then dps with weapon skill only and not so mobile. not even a single DPS utility to differentiate the gameplays.

 

warrior simply isn't up to date as a class, it is very much a single build a single role, with slight differences.

but people like to switch up for fun, and warrior isn't allowed for that, so people just multi class, but it isn't the case for many, if you want a taste of melee, you can reaper, you can willbender, you can holo.

 

it's not saying warrior is not viable, but Warrior is basically a single build and that's it, doesn't really fit the term of a class.

you can not go fun time with like full AI minions, then go back to big aoes spamming range, then go back to melee fun.

 

back in core, there's literally not a single way for warrior to carry your team in dungeon or fractal, no matter how good you are, but you can as other classes, such as reflect wall/dome in lava fractal, or many AoE stab/aegis. that can easily carry a random pug. i can't recount how many times i wanted to remain another class, i did make another class in case I needed to carry tho.

and warrior finally actually getting these tools, but only so recently after 10 years, you already barely see any warrior at all.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Lighter.5631]

warrior is the only class that has no summons

renegade

spirit weapon

elementals

minions

pet

thief guild

turrets

clones

 

or any mechanics for fun, like stealth, or teleport. nor does it have big AoE like warrior in other games that break mountains and shatter earth, nor dashing in the battlefield. it's still the same warrior, after 3 elite specs.

 

but every other classes can be a warrior. even necro even ele, even engi.

 

sure warrior is viable, but it has not captured the fantasy of warrior, it did on core vanilla, but then there's reaper/holo/weaver/willbender. other classes captured more fantasy of warrior then warrior ever did after the release of HoT.

and Warrior failed to expand its gameplay

because they slapped these ideas onto other classes, just look at willbender, look at sword rev.

elite specs have basically expanded the gameplay of all classes except warrior.

the new hammer build is actually a breath of fresh air because it captures the fantasy of warrior yet it is new and viable. but again hammer is a core weapon that's been there for 10 years and to think it only starts to be played now. to think that you spammed axe skill for 6 years+ even tho warrior has the most weapon sets.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Lighter.5631]

none of the warrior elite specs has captured the fantasy

berserker: reaper mode, even rampage, feels more berserker then berserker. specially with the perma berserk mode, make it feels even less special, just a more spammy core warrior,  not like it was special to begin with, with only burst skill alteration.

 

spellbreaker: full counter revenge counter these are videos of the anime that inspired full counter. does the full counter we have feels like anything if not at all? revenge counter has become a useless trait in pve, even tho it increases damage, simply because nobody uses full counter to do damage, it has become simply a block. and has become a support trait in pvp, for the fact that full counter simply does no damage.

now it's just core warrior with an extra block that also does some damage on trigger.

 

and bladesworn?:  yea, they tried to make it cool like gunblade of final fantasy, but they could not capture the fast pace and weaving of gunblade, and samurai? no real japanese dev would make a samurai like this. it just feels wrong, i often like samurai gameplay in almost every game, but this game..it's just...wrong, samurai is about evasion and counterattacks and fluid movements. there's literally none, now it's just spamming aegis..like...aegis? really? like make up your mind..it feels like it's trying to be everything but not really anything at all.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Serephen.3420]

1 hour ago, Lighter.5631 said:

yea it is definitely a big regret for many.

majority rerolled, most just multi class, you barely see a warrior only main, but you see other classes only main often.

for the first 9 years you are only stuck as banner slave

with literally 0 gameplay style differences from very other build

offhand dagger plays like offhand axe plays like offhand pistol.

it is the only class that with 3 elite specs, yet no new play style. first two elite specs literally play the same as core, while bladesworn is still the same ramping-up power dps that's not very mobile just in a different fashion. same hitting the power up button, then dps with weapon skill only and not so mobile. not even a single DPS utility to differentiate the gameplays.

 

warrior simply isn't up to date as a class, it is very much a single build a single role, with slight differences.

but people like to switch up for fun, and warrior isn't allowed for that, so people just multi class, but it isn't the case for many, if you want a taste of melee, you can reaper, you can willbender, you can holo.

 

it's not saying warrior is not viable, but Warrior is basically a single build and that's it, doesn't really fit the term of a class.

you can not go fun time with like full AI minions, then go back to big aoes spamming range, then go back to melee fun.

 

back in core, there's literally not a single way for warrior to carry your team in dungeon or fractal, no matter how good you are, but you can as other classes, such as reflect wall/dome in lava fractal, or many AoE stab/aegis. that can easily carry a random pug. i can't recount how many times i wanted to remain another class, i did make another class in case I needed to carry tho.

and warrior finally actually getting these tools, but only so recently after 10 years, you already barely see any warrior at all.

I'm sorry but in core warrior was the meta class especially for dungeon runs/speed runs. You'd get full warrior groups with a mes for time warp and sometimes a frostbow ele as well. 

 

After core I can agree warrior hasn't had the most stellar track run. However, it has maintained a steady dps role especially post eod with bladesworn and spellbreaker. But more could be done to give access to more supportive roles.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Serephen.3420

[Lighter.5631]

2 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said:

I'm sorry but in core warrior was the meta class especially for dungeon runs/speed runs. You'd get full warrior groups with a mes for time warp and sometimes a frostbow ele as well. 

 

After core I can agree warrior hasn't had the most stellar track run. However, it has maintained a steady dps role especially post eod with bladesworn and spellbreaker. But more could be done to give access to more supportive roles.

did i mention anything about viability?

[Serephen.3420]

1 minute ago, Lighter.5631 said:

did i mention anything about viability?

I wasn't really trying to counter your point but it was referring more to your last paragraph:

 

Quote

back in core, there's literally not a single way for warrior to carry your team in dungeon or fractal, no matter how good you are, but you can as other classes, such as reflect wall/dome in lava fractal, or many AoE stab/aegis. that can easily carry a random pug.

 

[Lighter.5631]

54 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said:

I wasn't really trying to counter your point but it was referring more to your last paragraph:

 

 

that's about carrying a team from wiping and wiping, that's not about optimal dps, you wouldn't take these utilities if you want optimal DPS. but if you had it, you would prevent your pug from keep wiping and wasting over 30 mins to 1hr for literally nothing.

it's a completely different concept than speed farming with everybody knowing what to do.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Serephen.3420]

1 minute ago, Lighter.5631 said:

that's about carrying a team from wiping and wiping, that's not about optimal dps, you wouldn't take these utilities if you want optimal DPS. but if you had it, you would prevent your pug from keep wiping and wasting over 30 mins to 1hr for literally nothing.

it's a completely different concept than speed farming with everybody knowing what to do.

I know that, but you used to get warrior builds that could solo dungeons, so a carry would be possible still. I'd say it's less likely to happen in current content, except maybe bladesworn one shotting things 🤔

[Lighter.5631]

19 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said:

I know that, but you used to get warrior builds that could solo dungeons, so a carry would be possible still. I'd say it's less likely to happen in current content, except maybe bladesworn one shotting things 🤔

 

 

does it matter if you could solo the boss in 40 mins, not to mention how much effort it's gonna take?

and not like I haven't done it.

yes, i joined a team so I could sweat my kitten off to solo the boss in 40 mins while hoping people would want to lay there for the entire duration for a simple daily.

or I could just pull up that reflect wall with a single click of button, people would stack behind and not get wrecked during the projectile phase for their inability to dodge and hard dps for an easy 5 min kill.

the difference is day and night.

anyone who values their time and effort would know which option is better.

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

that's about carrying a team from wiping and wiping, that's not about optimal dps, you wouldn't take these utilities if you want optimal DPS. but if you had it, you would prevent your pug from keep wiping and wasting over 30 mins to 1hr for literally nothing.

it's a completely different concept than speed farming with everybody knowing what to do.

The utilities you speak of weren't used to carry a group of clueless players. DPS did that. Utilities were helpful only after that first thing got covered, and only if the players in the group were experienced enough to take full use of them. 

And no, it's not "solo the boss in 40 minutes". With proper build and experience single warrior could dps a final dungeon boss in less than a minute. 40 minutes is more than enough for a fully casual group to clear a whole single path of any dungeon (except Arah and Twilight Assault).

[Dadnir.5038]

On 5/7/2023 at 7:26 PM, Invoker.5462 said:

But ele and necro have always had a place in all aspects of the game. At no point would wonder if a necro or an ele will be a useless addition to a group.

That's a pretty poor start...

Necromancer:

- WvW: The profession have always been welcome there.

- sPvP: Poor start in the vanilla game, it had 3 peaks of short lived popularity nerfed within 2-3 weeks (1st when they introduced dhuumfire and the 2nd when they allowed spectral skills' LF gen to work while in shroud and the 3rd was when they raised a bit the life siphon granted by Wells). In HoT, reaper put necromancer in a relatively good spot in sPvP. PoF had scourge completely destroy the gamemode. As for EoD, I'd say that currently necromancer is neither in a bad or a good spot.

- PvE: Necromancer was insta-kick in the vanilla game (no cleave, bad combo fields, slow movement speed, poor combo finisher, no support, low damage output, low survivability). In HoT, reaper allowed dungeon path soloing but you were still insta-kick of the end game content, necromancer had to wait until they introduced instabilities in fractal to get a bit of popularity there. HoT, it took some time but scourge had a first breakthrough as a non meta healer, then it got a short lived shine as a condi dps thanks to epidemic and finally in the middle of 2020 it rose as a meta profession in PvE end game. EoD brought back scourge as a sub option in PvE end game.

 

Elementalist:

There is not even a need to differentiate between gamemodes for this profession. It was God in the vanilla game, fell out of flavor somewhere in the middle of HoT era and only rose back in the limelight in EoD. It was basically in a bad spot for 4-5 years out of 11.

[Dadnir.5038]

21 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

With proper build and experience single warrior could dps a final dungeon boss in less than a minute.

Well, you're both exagerating here. On average, It was a bit more than a minute (between 1m30s and 4 minutes based on the boss).

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

53 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That's a pretty poor start...

Necromancer:

- WvW: The profession have always been welcome there.

- sPvP: Poor start in the vanilla game, it had 3 peaks of short lived popularity nerfed within 2-3 weeks (1st when they introduced dhuumfire and the 2nd when they allowed spectral skills' LF gen to work while in shroud and the 3rd was when they raised a bit the life siphon granted by Wells). In HoT, reaper put necromancer in a relatively good spot in sPvP. PoF had scourge completely destroy the gamemode. As for EoD, I'd say that currently necromancer is neither in a bad or a good spot.

- PvE: Necromancer was insta-kick in the vanilla game (no cleave, bad combo fields, slow movement speed, poor combo finisher, no support, low damage output, low survivability). In HoT, reaper allowed dungeon path soloing but you were still insta-kick of the end game content, necromancer had to wait until they introduced instabilities in fractal to get a bit of popularity there. HoT, it took some time but scourge had a first breakthrough as a non meta healer, then it got a short lived shine as a condi dps thanks to epidemic and finally in the middle of 2020 it rose as a meta profession in PvE end game. EoD brought back scourge as a sub option in PvE end game.

 

Elementalist:

There is not even a need to differentiate between gamemodes for this profession. It was God in the vanilla game, fell out of flavor somewhere in the middle of HoT era and only rose back in the limelight in EoD. It was basically in a bad spot for 4-5 years out of 11.

I wouldn't say the Elementalist was that strong in the early years.

 

It had a few advantages, such as being literally the only true healer in the game before Heart of Thorns, (though content rarely needed a healer), and for its summoned weapons doing absolutely massive damage, but outside of those two situations it was mediocre. Most of the time it was just being taken for the summoned weapons which is kind of like how Warriors were taken only for banners later on.

 

When Tempest was introduced it blew Core Elementalist away like a hurricane, but even that didn't last too long and Ele wasn't really meta on every subclass until End of Dragons.

 

I would argue that, given the level of input the class requires just to play it properly, its been in a pretty bad spot for most of its lifetime and is still in a somewhat bad spot overall, since it only barely equals other classes despite notoriously higher complexity. The only time I can think of when Elementalist was truly rewarded for the effort was the Tempest DPS benchmarks in HoT and Catalyst for like, one week in EoD.

 

Despite other replies in this thread, I think Necromancer is still in a bad spot as well, at least in end-game PvE, since it can't usually bring a boon and thus isn't welcome as anything other than a flat-out DPS, with only a third of the effective builds of other classes (besides just one QuickDPS build).

Edited May 10, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Avatara.1042]

Both have been relegated to 2nd class at various stages of the game, with ele being poor in raids/strikes right now.

[Dadnir.5038]

3 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

Most of the time it was just being taken for the summoned weapons.

Nope, really, that's not it.

Elementalist was taken for 5 things:

• Summoned weapons (obviously)
• Combo fields (fire, water and lightning)
• Blast finishers
• The dps that aoe skills with a set amount of impact offered (meteor shower, glyph of storms).
• The skills that left fire trails and offered evade frames.

Elementalist could simply provide all boons necessary, offer healing just by switching to water attunment and deal relatively more damage than any other profession. Conjured weapons helped but they weren't the true reason elementalist was favored in PvE end game.

 

3 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

When Tempest was introduced it blew Core Elementalist away like a hurricane,

Even this isn't really true, what blew core elementalist is the specialization rework pre HoT. It made core elementalist cluncky right before they introduced tempest. They never fixed what they broke at that time, which is basically why core ele feel inferior to it's e-specs.

3 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

I would argue that, given the level of input the class requires just to play it properly,

It might vary from player to player, but honestly, no. In the vanilla game I was running through more than 15 dungeon path every day on my elementalist (3 path in AC, 2 in caudecus, 2 in sorrow embrace, 1-2 in twilight arbor, 2 in citadel of flame, 3 in HotW, 3 in crucible and the whole run lasted something like 2h30) and it was all muscle memory, I didn't even bothered to think about what I was doing and yet I was buffing at the right moment, healing if needed and dealing as much damage as other if not more. In the vanilla game we were just machines in dungeons and our script was more or less: "Pull, fire field, blast blast blast, fart a conjured weapon, kill the boss, lightning field, blast blast blast, smoke field, blast blast blast, run... rince and repeat."

I'm ashamed to say that even in sPvP I was basically killing players by only doing the PvE buff rotation on points.

3 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

Despite other replies in this thread, I think Necromancer is still in a bad spot as well, at least in end-game PvE, since it can't usually bring a boon and thus isn't welcome as anything other than a flat-out DPS, with only a third of the effective builds of other classes (besides just one QuickDPS build).

I think the Necromancer's community focused to much on asking for "power reaper" to be meta in PvE. In the meantime, the perceived needs of the meta changed over the years and necromancer as a whole end up being left behind. There is indeed a lack of role diversity for the necromancer in PvE end game, yet, unfortunately, I don't think the necromancer community is ready to look beyond their "power reaper meta" dream yet.

[asterix.9614]

Go pvp with every class, that way you get to learn the mechanics easier than doing pve or zerg ball in wvw. Makes it easier for you to find classes you might like, not as if anyone is forcing you to play 1 class 🙄

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Warrior main since Prophecies. There are no regrets.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

8 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Nope, really, that's not it.

Elementalist was taken for 5 things:

• Summoned weapons (obviously)
• Combo fields (fire, water and lightning)
• Blast finishers
• The dps that aoe skills with a set amount of impact offered (meteor shower, glyph of storms).
• The skills that left fire trails and offered evade frames.

Elementalist could simply provide all boons necessary, offer healing just by switching to water attunment and deal relatively more damage than any other profession. Conjured weapons helped but they weren't the true reason elementalist was favored in PvE end game.

 

Even this isn't really true, what blew core elementalist is the specialization rework pre HoT. It made core elementalist cluncky right before they introduced tempest. They never fixed what they broke at that time, which is basically why core ele feel inferior to it's e-specs.

It might vary from player to player, but honestly, no. In the vanilla game I was running through more than 15 dungeon path every day on my elementalist (3 path in AC, 2 in caudecus, 2 in sorrow embrace, 1-2 in twilight arbor, 2 in citadel of flame, 3 in HotW, 3 in crucible and the whole run lasted something like 2h30) and it was all muscle memory, I didn't even bothered to think about what I was doing and yet I was buffing at the right moment, healing if needed and dealing as much damage as other if not more. In the vanilla game we were just machines in dungeons and our script was more or less: "Pull, fire field, blast blast blast, fart a conjured weapon, kill the boss, lightning field, blast blast blast, smoke field, blast blast blast, run... rince and repeat."

I'm ashamed to say that even in sPvP I was basically killing players by only doing the PvE buff rotation on points.

I think the Necromancer's community focused to much on asking for "power reaper" to be meta in PvE. In the meantime, the perceived needs of the meta changed over the years and necromancer as a whole end up being left behind. There is indeed a lack of role diversity for the necromancer in PvE end game, yet, unfortunately, I don't think the necromancer community is ready to look beyond their "power reaper meta" dream yet.

You do realise I was around at these times and have my own experiences maining the class, right? I don't know why I bother to discuss anything on the forums at this point.

[Dadnir.5038]

5 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

You do realise I was around at these times and have my own experiences maining the class, right? I don't know why I bother to discuss anything on the forums at this point.

I do realize but sumarizing elementalist's usefulness to "conjured weapon" in the vanilla game is simply wrong. It's just a matter of the fact that you deny 80% of what made elementalist meta in the vanilla game.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

You do realise I was around at these times and have my own experiences maining the class, right? I don't know why I bother to discuss anything on the forums at this point.

OP also seems to claim to have their own experiences about necromancers always being wanted in content (and warrior he mained always being in a bad place). Experiences that do not seem to match the experiences of many other players. So, let me just say, that if you think that originally eles were being taken only due to conjured weapons, your personal experience might not be all that representative of this past.

[Lighter.5631]

21 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The utilities you speak of weren't used to carry a group of clueless players. DPS did that.

What you even talking about. dead people do no DPS. and the utilities kept them alive.

Like what in the what? i can't even

hahaha also 1 min solo a fractal final boss? tell me in what part of vanilla GW2 warrior was able to solo final pre-revamped fractal/dungeon boss in 1 min, when those were not outdated content, i'll wait.

also i find it funny how non warrior trying to argue about warrior's diversification, when yourself isn't even bothered to play one and/or is only a sub class. there's a reason why warrior is a lot of people's sub class, yet you don't see any warrior main at all until recent updates.

many people had warrior as sub class, because that banner slave build was viable and demanded, but why nobody main the class, you tell me.

there were so many threads from even non warrior, have stated that they see literally 0 warrior in general plays from last year. recent updates did warrior some good, but clearly it's still far from enough.

i mained rev for HoT, and mained holo for PoF for a reason and only people who played warrior would know.

this isn't an argument about viability in raid or anything, non warrior really has 0 say in this topic.

you will understand as long as you simply played warrior only for an extensive amount of time, which you obviously didn't.

quite funny how people are so quick to comment on something they literally have 0 idea about.

a common sign of teenagers with no critical thinking.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Lighter.5631