U Cele Bro?

[thechief.3609]

OK ye I agree boonspam is the problem also but thier are so many different stat combinations out now its time people went back to build crafting and mixing and matching stat selections to get a hybrid build with good boon duration or good toughness or power with a little condi thrown in etc rather than just have the one set that does it for you where would be the harm in removing cele? (Not saying that's the answer btw)

[asterix.9614]

Best bit of Vallun's video was the comment section with GuildKaren acting her crazy self, calling the guy who commented a skill clicker (irrelevant to the discussion about cele) etc . Poor Vallun had to put his foot in and agree that the chief guy was right lol

Edited June 19, 2023 by asterix.9614

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, thechief.3609 said:

OK ye I agree boonspam is the problem also but thier are so many different stat combinations out now its time people went back to build crafting and mixing and matching stat selections to get a hybrid build with good boon duration or good toughness or power with a little condi thrown in etc rather than just have the one set that does it for you where would be the harm in removing cele? (Not saying that's the answer btw)

Simple question, is there too much boon spawn? Drop the armor bits.+

[thechief.3609]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Simple question, is there too much boon spawn? Drop the armor bits.+

As a guardian willbender main I can say 100% boon spam is a problem lol but I do feel like if I had to theory craft a build using multiple different stat types I wouldn't be as strong as if I was in just cele gear because I def would be sacrificing something like healing power or expertise or power etc at the very least they should bring the total amount of points on cele match the 4 stat sets. 

[Exzen.2976]

Too many people miss the point here with their "boon spam is the problem". 

Both are a the problem - boon spam for sure is and celestial stats for sure is. The difference is, that celestial stats is a much easier problem to fix. Just nerf the amount of stats it gives (its kinda ridiculous as it stands) or remove concentration from it - it didn't used to have it before and was fine. 

As it stands, celestial is simply just better than most other options for roaming. And makes a lot of other stat combos obsolete, therefore killing build diversity. Even on exclusively power builds like FA Weaver, Celestial trinkets is ridiculously good - which really shouldn't be the case. 

Celestial is currently killing the roaming scene in WvW, which I appreciate is a smaller population in WvW than zerging, but a nerf to cele wouldn't impact meta zerg builds but would have a big impact on roaming. 

Surely it's just a no brainer for anet. 

[eXruina.4956]

its been years now, they seem to want it the way it is so i just got with the times rather than complain.

 

continous nerfs to boon strip is pretty telltale of what direction they're going for.

 

like the recent nerfs left some skills to remove 1 boon and nothing else, might as well delete those skills from the game.

 

i also thought skills were on a power budget, those changes didn't reflect that at all.

[Skada.1362]

you know a full set of cele gives you 42%ish boon and condi duration right? thats without traits, food, sigils and runes.

just wanted to make that clear to all in this thread that claim cele isn't the issue but boon spam is.

they go hand in hand and you know it. nerf this garbage already, only noobs like it the way it is.

[eXruina.4956]

3 hours ago, Exzen.2976 said:

Celestial is currently killing the roaming scene in WvW

the roaming scene was never in their design and balance considerations, historically they wanted it to die out. they've mentioned this many times.

 

its sad because the most exciting content to watch is from the roaming scene, specially from the outside perspective. roaming montages are cool, flashy and entertaining to watch vs other content about the game.

 

they don't realize this at all.

 

that said the roaming scene is nowhere near what it once was, they've ostracized too many people from the game over years of poor balance implementations. the same can probably be said for the pvp scene.

[Exzen.2976]

3 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

the roaming scene was never in their design and balance considerations, historically they wanted it to die out. they've mentioned this many times.

 

its sad because the most exciting content to watch is from the roaming scene, specially from the outside perspective. roaming montages are cool, flashy and entertaining to watch vs other content about the game.

 

they don't realize this at all.

 

that said the roaming scene is nowhere near what it once was, they've ostracized too many people from the game over years of poor balance implementations. the same can probably be said for the pvp scene.

I sincerely hope that isn't how they still view the roaming scene, but it does often feel like it. 

But very true, a lot of good roamers have left the game for the reasons you mentioned.

However, I intend to continue to suggest changes which will positively affect the content I enjoy, regardless of whether it was intended or not by anet 🙂

[Zyreva.1078]

8 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I don't remember people saying they were OP after that at that time.

I do remember tho. I was one of them (but not the only one mind you).

8 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Instead of addressing boon spam to address all armor sets we try and say nerf an armor set which would still leave all the other sets to have to deal with the boon spam. Myabe address the boon spam first and armor second? We are trying to chase a paper tiger if we don't address the boon spam as the main issue when you think about it in all the various levels of play and armor sets.

Do you even read my posts? I already explained multiple times why this does not make sense.

8 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Do you disagree there is too much boon spam at solo, havoc, warband and zerg play?

No. If you would have read my posts, you'd know that answer already.

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

IF YOU MAX out celestial gear (-weapon stat because I'm too lazy to figure out every single weapon combo), this includes all gear pieces ,  and accessories rings etc... you can get a maximum of 527/15 for a total of 34% extra boon duration. 

Now let's think, if an ability has a boon duration for 4 secs then with your extra 34% you get a whopping extra 1 sec on this hypothetical boon duration. A boon with a duration of 3 secs you again get 1 sec on the hypothetical boon duration. A boon with a 2 sec duration would gain depending on where it lays at in .00 might not even get the extra 1 sec. 

This is what celestial gives! NOW, tell me, is it the GEAR or the BOONS?

Boons are problem, not the gear. Primarily boon applications the way you get the perma boon cycles, Anet needs to nerf the application or buff and extend the strips.

AGAIN, it is not the gear, it is the boons.

IF you want to win, just stack boons and face roll, no skill needed, just BOOONSSS!!!

[Nefras.7314]

18 minutes ago, Crazy.6029 said:

IF YOU MAX out celestial gear (-weapon stat because I'm too lazy to figure out every single weapon combo), this includes all gear pieces ,  and accessories rings etc... you can get a maximum of 527/15 for a total of 34% extra boon duration. 

Now let's think, if an ability has a boon duration for 4 secs then with your extra 34% you get a whopping extra 1 sec on this hypothetical boon duration. A boon with a duration of 3 secs you again get 1 sec on the hypothetical boon duration. A boon with a 2 sec duration would gain depending on where it lays at in .00 might not even get the extra 1 sec. 

This is what celestial gives! NOW, tell me, is it the GEAR or the BOONS?

Boons are problem, not the gear. Primarily boon applications the way you get the perma boon cycles, Anet needs to nerf the application or buff and extend the strips.

AGAIN, it is not the gear, it is the boons.

IF you want to win, just stack boons and face roll, no skill needed, just BOOONSSS!!!

full cele with food in wvw gets you to 45%, runes are another 15%, add class specific traits for added conc and you end up with classes having permanent prot uptime. 

try running harbi or wb on marauder vs cele with the same food and runes. the difference in uptime and sustain is insane, meanwhile the lack of power dmg gets compensated by the added condis.

sure this all isnt just cele gears fault ... would it be much easier to just delete cele for balance? yes.

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Nefras.7314

[Xenesis.6389]

Pffft you guys are looking at this all wrong, they don't need to remove stats from celestial....... they need to add more stats to every other 3 and 4 stat piece to make up the difference..... 🤔🤭🤷‍♂️🍦

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

It is just bad balance, yeah, you can say gear, food, runes and all that give you the plus 45%, but the boons are off the chain and the balance is not good. It really has just turn this game mode to gimmick face roll boon specs. We could argue all day about if it is the forest or the trees that are the problem, but at the end of the day, it is bad balance boon problem.

I don't blame the players at all for playing these no skill builds, and honestly if killing the celestial gear would help the problem then I'm all for it, but I don't think it would be enough. There needs to be a decision by Anet to balance this boon problem. 

So many veteran players know this, and it really is the new players that walk in to WvW and just get farmed all day in front of the keep that don't understand why it is happening. They are the ones that walk away with the bad impression. We the long-time vets are just too stubborn or thick to just quit this mess. 

[Polar.8634]

16 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Because boons are busted lol.

i mean, i know, idk why they added them then

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

its probably not celestial that is the problem, but the mistake of making boons that stack and duration instead of intensity, which is something i've discussed several times before.

 

boons with flat bonuses like fury, protection, regeneration and swiftness should all stack in intensity so you have to use them several times to reach the current threshold instead of just getting it with one key press. its not just a wvw problem either, it makes boon supports too strong in pve as well, to the point where normal healers have all but been pushed out of content.

 

would you think protection is so bad when you only get 5-10% per stack?

 

the only reason its not a big deal in pvp is because concentration gear doesn't really exist there, however removing celestial or concentration isn't the real solution because as we've also seen by pvp, it extremely limits build diversity and is ultimately a net loss.

Edited June 20, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[senftube.6081]

It is both which is a problem. And Anet has to look at it. 

[babana.7521]

After reading and evaluating the whole thread, the too long didn't read version of this complaint is that Celestial Gears make me have to spent more time killing newbs that I usually can do in one shot, so Anet must neft celestial gears so I can carry on with my killing of the newbs spree. 

[DeceiverX.8361]

10 hours ago, Skada.1362 said:

you know a full set of cele gives you 42%ish boon and condi duration right? thats without traits, food, sigils and runes.

just wanted to make that clear to all in this thread that claim cele isn't the issue but boon spam is.

they go hand in hand and you know it. nerf this garbage already, only noobs like it the way it is.

I agree they're hand-in-hand, but that boon duration is entirely depending on the base uptime.

If your boon uptime baseline is compared to like 2012-era boon sources, where you'd get like 10 stacks of might for 5 seconds on a 30 second cooldown, the uptime on that power is still only like 30% while effectively ditching stats for the other 70%.

[thechief.3609]

6 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

After reading and evaluating the whole thread, the too long didn't read version of this complaint is that Celestial Gears make me have to spent more time killing newbs that I usually can do in one shot, so Anet must neft celestial gears so I can carry on with my killing of the newbs spree. 

Then I think you need to re read it a bit more closely people can one shot noobs regardless of what gear thier in, its when experienced players put cele on is the issue  and the other half that you clearly failed to read is the part where 90% of the people are agreeing that cele itself isnt the sole issue it's the boon spam that goes along with the way the anet has made the game cele give free 45% boon uptime so if you're on a renegade for example though trait line choice you can sustain 25might permanently with celestial and still have huge damage with no loss to anything  else and have 2.9k toughness with 26k health

[RazieL.5684]

all in all  if you have problems with cele players just play trashbender and you will 3shot them...

[Hotride.2187]

Woah, another cele thread.

I won't even read the "arguments" for cele, I can remember them from the last 10 threads: "but you can min-max better" "I don't wanna get 1 shot and I don't wanna dodge" "but muh build" "but its not the stats its certain skills"

Yeah, yeah. Sure it is. Carry on as roaming gets deader and deader.

[RazieL.5684]

9 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Woah, another cele thread.

I won't even read the "arguments" for cele, I can remember them from the last 10 threads: "but you can min-max better" "I don't wanna get 1 shot and I don't wanna dodge" "but muh build" "but its not the stats its certain skills"

Yeah, yeah. Sure it is. Carry on as roaming gets deader and deader.

yeah and the arguments for the other side are "i refuse to bring condi cleanse", "i main willbender and my skill is through the roof but these cele noobs force me to use 4 skills instead of 3 to kill them!"

 

ps roaming is dead anyway, there are only gank groups out there, no roaming...

Edited June 20, 2023 by RazieL.5684

[Esufer.8762]

why do people have such strong feelings about sigil of celerity? it's 5 seconds of quickness on a 20 second ICD, hardly OP

[Exzen.2976]

U celerity bro?