Thief in WvWvW

[MilkyTea.9042]

Did this profession get nerfed like crazy over the years (since core)? Feel like every other profession does everything better than thief in WvWvW (mobility, stealth, damage, etc.)

Edited June 18, 2023 by Parsleysoda.9031

[ArcanistSeven.8720]

i dont bother taking thief in WvW anymore other roamers can do our job better because of the warclaw so our mobility doesnt matter as much that and everyone else does more damage than we do. stealth doesnt matter much if your fighting near towers that can reveal you. its just better to take a class that has blocks or some kind of invuns because dodging and stealthing isnt good enough imo

[Xoranium.6481]

4 hours ago, ArcanistSeven.8720 said:

i dont bother taking thief in WvW anymore other roamers can do our job better because of the warclaw so our mobility doesnt matter as much that and everyone else does more damage than we do. stealth doesnt matter much if your fighting near towers that can reveal you. its just better to take a class that has blocks or some kind of invuns because dodging and stealthing isnt good enough imo

Exactly the reason I'm taking a break from gw2 and wvw.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

For a second I almost took this seriously.

[Meridian.9103]

Thief is still good, but it really skillchecks you.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Correct but:

* nobody will admit it

* people will still be toxic to you because they're channeling abuse from 2015 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

On 6/20/2023 at 4:51 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Correct but:

* nobody will admit it

* people will still be toxic to you because they're channeling abuse from 2015 

If your playstyle can be summarized as being in stealth 90% of the time, hitting for ~10k from stealth almost each time and running away if you're about to lose you shouldn't be suprised.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

If your playstyle can be summarized as being in stealth 90% of the time, hitting for ~10k from stealth almost each time and running away if you're about to lose you shouldn't be suprised.

Thief doesn't do two of these anymore, and the third one is an option picked frequently by players that aren't thieves. 

This is what I mean by channeling trauma. 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

22 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Thief doesn't do two of these anymore, and the third one is an option picked frequently by players that aren't thieves. 

This is what I mean by channeling trauma. 

 

I guess 90% of the thieves I see in WvW aren't actually Thieves.

[Gerebos.1065]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:10 PM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

If your playstyle can be summarized as being in stealth 90% of the time, hitting for ~10k from stealth almost each time and running away if you're about to lose you shouldn't be suprised.

Correct me please if I am wrong but this is not what the class/profession is all about?

Rogue/Thief/Assassin type characters are high dps stealth lurkers.

The 10k indeed was a bit much where medium hp is about 18-20k but each class/profession have a panic button against this usually in any game.

To the author:

Right now thief is somewhere on par with warrior at level of impact upon the wvwvw scoreboard so don't bother playing it until the next expansion in wvwvw but in pvp is not that bad.

 

P.S. Those who designed the thief stealth I am 100% percent sure they were ex WoW vanilla players who were traumatized for a life in the game by rogues who did it from behind in perma stealth xD

[felix.2386]

On 6/17/2023 at 11:11 PM, Parsleysoda.9031 said:

Did this profession get nerfed like crazy over the years (since core)? Feel like every other profession does everything better than thief in WvWvW (mobility, stealth, damage, etc.)

you just got down from supremacy, there's no inferiority, still better then most.

you will still never ever die. but now you just take more effort to actually kill someone.

i see like 2 thieves duo all the time. literally. there's basically no way to deal with that.

Edited June 23, 2023 by felix.2386

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

you will still never ever die. but now you just take more effort to actually kill someone.

So like most bunkers?

What if we don't wanna play like bunkers (or bunker playstyles are actively nerfed, see specter)?

SoL even though there's specs that can chase thieves now?

Edited June 23, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Mic.1897]

Are the people in this thread high

 

Thief is still the best overall class for WvW

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

14 hours ago, Mic.1897 said:

Are the people in this thread high

 

Thief is still the best overall class for WvW

Explain your reasoning?

Edited June 26, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

17 hours ago, Mic.1897 said:

Are the people in this thread high

 

Thief is still the best overall class for WvW

I don't think it's bad, however it is mediocre to borderline bad in zerg fights currently so there is no way it is the best overall class for WvW. I can see zergs having a lot less ALAC specters and more Quick Deadeyes after the next patch.

It excels at roaming, but even still to be good there is a bar you need to climb over. For roaming, it's easy to run away, but it takes skill and or extra knowledge to overpower.

Most people like zergs so thief is stuck in a weird place for WvW. Personally I like clouds and or a roaming meta (groups of 5-15) much more.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

I don't think it's bad, however it is mediocre to borderline bad in zerg fights currently so there is no way it is the best overall class for WvW. I can see zergs having a lot less ALAC specters and more Quick Deadeyes after the next patch.

It excels at roaming, but even still to be good there is a bar you need to climb over. For roaming, it's easy to run away, but it takes skill and or extra knowledge to overpower.

Most people like zergs so thief is stuck in a weird place for WvW. Personally I like clouds and or a roaming meta (groups of 5-15) much more.

Correct.

People will get nuked by one thief while roaming on their own far away from sentries or structures, then trauma channel for years

Edited June 26, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[UNOwen.7132]

On 6/26/2023 at 3:13 AM, Mic.1897 said:

Are the people in this thread high

 

Thief is still the best overall class for WvW

No, they are not? Zerging is the #1 most important thing in WvW, and there are 8 good classes at zerging, and 1 that is functionally unplayable in Zergs. Guess which one that one class is. 

Even if we restrict ourselves to roaming, its not thief. Thief is actually pretty mediocre at roaming, yes, you will never die, but you also will never kill anyone or be able to accomplish anything but backcap when no one is paying attention. If you actually want to be successful while roaming, you go Catalyst, 

[kash.9213]

14 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

No, they are not? Zerging is the #1 most important thing in WvW, and there are 8 good classes at zerging, and 1 that is functionally unplayable in Zergs. Guess which one that one class is. 

Even if we restrict ourselves to roaming, its not thief. Thief is actually pretty mediocre at roaming, yes, you will never die, but you also will never kill anyone or be able to accomplish anything but backcap when no one is paying attention. If you actually want to be successful while roaming, you go Catalyst, 

Thieves are fine in zergs and some builds are really strong. 

[UNOwen.7132]

46 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

Thieves are fine in zergs and some builds are really strong. 

They really are not. Theyre fine in GvG scenarios, but in Zergs there is no reason whatsoever to bring a thief. Theyre the by far worst class, and do not offer anything that other classes arent significantly better at.

[kash.9213]

35 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

They really are not. Theyre fine in GvG scenarios, but in Zergs there is no reason whatsoever to bring a thief. Theyre the by far worst class, and do not offer anything that other classes arent significantly better at.

Don't bring your thief then. Doesn't mean thieves are bad in zergs. I don't get a lot of time to play each day so being a rando on the map hitting up all of the large fights is the bulk of my content. Even the two basic raid build for Specter feels about on point for large groups in WvW. DE is also only getting stronger now in large groups and zergs. A lot of builds don't contribute much beyond kills but I don't feel bad in a zerg unless I have no leaps. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by kash.9213

[UNOwen.7132]

1 hour ago, kash.9213 said:

Don't bring your thief then. Doesn't mean thieves are bad in zergs. I don't get a lot of time to play each day so being a rando on the map hitting up all of the large fights is the bulk of my content. Even the two basic raid build for Specter feels about on point for large groups in WvW. DE is also only getting stronger now in large groups and zergs. A lot of builds don't contribute much beyond kills but I don't feel bad in a zerg unless I have no leaps. 

You playing thief in WvW doesnt make it bad, its just that WvW has no quality control possible. However, ask any Zerg commanders or high-level WvW players, and they will tell you that thief is the by far worst class for Zergs and never worth bringing over any of the other, better classes.

[kash.9213]

21 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

You playing thief in WvW doesnt make it bad, its just that WvW has no quality control possible. However, ask any Zerg commanders or high-level WvW players, and they will tell you that thief is the by far worst class for Zergs and never worth bringing over any of the other, better classes.

I don't ask commanders if I can hang around. If I join any group, it's probably something fast moving with some guild and pugs we hang out with a lot so we can be free to not bite it with those zerg commanders and high-level WvW playsers and pick up their people after they faceplant a few times. Sometimes I'm the only one keeping that commander up during a drive and I agree, a thief shouldn't have to do that. 

 

[UNOwen.7132]

Just now, kash.9213 said:

I don't ask commanders if I can hang around. If I join any group, it's probably something fast moving with some guild and pugs we hang out with a lot so we can be free to not bite it with those zerg commanders and high-level WvW playsers and pick up their people after they faceplant a few times. Sometimes I'm the only one keeping that commander up during a drive and I agree, a thief shouldn't have to do that. 

 

I mean thats the point. You can play whatever you want in WvW, even if its bad. You playing thief in Zergs doesnt make it not bad, it just means youre picking a bad class in Zergs.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

I see some Specters being on demand lately for WvW Zerging. 

[kash.9213]

4 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

I mean thats the point. You can play whatever you want in WvW, even if its bad. You playing thief in Zergs doesnt make it not bad, it just means youre picking a bad class in Zergs.

You can keep being bad in zergs if you want. Play specter and keep your commander up, they'll appreciate it if you're not bad. Keep a DE quickness build on a template also. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by kash.9213