Dual wielding and vengeful return

[GamerToad.9248]

Name more useless traits than those 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dual_Wielding

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeful_Return

Dual wielding don't stack with quick so is useless pve and in pvp and wvw you often is not using 2 of the same weapon in hands.

Vengeful return competes with Warrior's sprint and if you are downed enemy has plenty of change to get you finished before the button comes off cd, and the enemy who got you downed probably can so do it again. so is a very useless trait.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Make all effects of crack shot baseline and create a trait that is focused on ranged combat. 

Then delete Vengul return and replace it with a trait that heals you and gives adrenaline on kill. 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Make all effects of crack shot baseline and create a trait that is focused on ranged combat. 

Your ranged attacks grant 1 might to nearby allies. You gain 1 adrenaline per might granted to an ally. Trait name unchanged. I like this as it leans more into offensive warrior support while giving a steady means of gaining adrenaline that is weapon independent.

5 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Then delete Vengul return and replace it with a trait that heals you and gives adrenaline on kill. 

 

New trait. Victory is Mine: When you kill a target gain 1/5 adrenaline, 100/200 health, and cleanse 1 condition. Split is PvE/Comp. No ICD.

An ICD version would look like: Gain 10/30 adrenaline, 1000/2000 health, cleanse 5 conditions and recharge your bursts when you kill a foe, 10s ICD. Again splits are PvE/Comp.

I'd say do the ICD version and swap places with Heightened Focus, mainly because I like the idea of resetting bursts when you kill a target being added to core and putting it in the GM tier forces a choice on Axe Builds.

[Jzaku.9765]

43 minutes ago, GamerToad.9248 said:

Name more useless traits than those 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dual_Wielding

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeful_Return

Dual wielding don't stack with quick so is useless pve and in pvp and wvw you often is not using 2 of the same weapon in hands.

Vengeful return competes with Warrior's sprint and if you are downed enemy has plenty of change to get you finished before the button comes off cd, and the enemy who got you downed probably can so do it again. so is a very useless trait.

Vengeful Return is so inexcusably bad I am actually amazed it's survived this long all the way since Launch 10 years ago.

I think you might be misinterpreting Dual Wielding from what you have written - it just requires you to be using any of the weapons Warrior can wield in the main hand, as an off-hand. So it'll be in effect any time you are using Axe/Mace/Sword/Dagger in your off-hand. Those OH weapons not being great is a separate issue from the trait, lol.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

25 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Your ranged attacks grant 1 might to nearby allies. You gain 1 adrenaline per might granted to an ally. Trait name unchanged. I like this as it leans more into offensive warrior support while giving a steady means of gaining adrenaline that is weapon independent.

New trait. Victory is Mine: When you kill a target gain 1/5 adrenaline, 100/200 health, and cleanse 1 condition. Split is PvE/Comp. No ICD.

An ICD version would look like: Gain 10/30 adrenaline, 1000/2000 health, cleanse 5 conditions and recharge your bursts when you kill a foe, 10s ICD. Again splits are PvE/Comp.

I'd say do the ICD version and swap places with Heightened Focus, mainly because I like the idea of resetting bursts when you kill a target being added to core and putting it in the GM tier forces a choice on Axe Builds.

Actual good trait choices? In Discipline? 

Impossible. 

[Greyrat.2378]

I kind of like the Dual Wielding but yes, it's pointless if you are having quickness anyway.

Vengeful Return is just 🤡 In what possible scenario would you even want to take that trait?

[Lonecap.4105]

Actually, I've made quite clutch use of vengeful return in sPvP. It only works for full glass power berserker. But it's still a bad trait, I'll agree, but it can be really really clutch.

It should at least make vengeance immediately useable. That change alone would push it into god tier.

[Leo G.4501]

15 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Actually, I've made quite clutch use of vengeful return in sPvP. It only works for full glass power berserker. But it's still a bad trait, I'll agree, but it can be really really clutch.

It should at least make vengeance immediately useable. That change alone would push it into god tier.

You could even roll the suggested replacement for vengeful return into 1 trait (+endurance and cleanse a condi on kill, make it available sooner and guarantee a rally on kill).

[Xperiment.6923]

11 hours ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Actually, I've made quite clutch use of vengeful return in sPvP. It only works for full glass power berserker. But it's still a bad trait, I'll agree, but it can be really really clutch.

It should at least make vengeance immediately useable. That change alone would push it into god tier.

I'm a sloppy pvp'r but I've built a fun bunker spec that uses this trait. I do see a difference using it vrs not. 

I'd have it pop Vengeance sooner as well as increase the time you have to live if you don't get the kill.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Discipline needs an update.

Vengeful Return and Heightened Focus should be changed into sustain traits that focus on the role of swiftness.

A minor in Discipline should grant Swiftness on weaponswap for 5 sec.

Vengeful return becomes a trait which grants a damage increase for swiftness and grants 3 sec of Fury when swiftness is applied on yourself (5 sec icd). 

Warrior's Sprint stays as an immob removal on movement skills and upon removal of immob you also gain a burst of SS for 2 sec, no icd.

Crackshot is reworked into a trait which heals yourself and allies with weaponswap.

New double standards remain with reso.

DotE remains.

Cleanse on swap remains.

Heightened Focus grants you quickness on weaponswap for 3 seconds (4 sec icd) and yourself and allies with 5k barrier (8 sec icd)

Burst Mastery improves swiftness by 33% and while under the effects of swiftness you cannot be slowed. Bursts grants swiftness.

Axe Mastery no longer has a CD redu, so instead it now grants a 10% damage increase on foes within the range threshold of 600 and gives 120 ferocity if any axe is equipped.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

I like and use Dual Wielding.  I solo/duo and don't chase quickness, so it's rarely overwritten and is a baseline buff that I don't have to worry about interrupting it procing or it being stripped.

~EpWa

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, EphemeralWallaby.7643 said:

I like and use Dual Wielding.  I solo/duo and don't chase quickness, so it's rarely overwritten and is a baseline buff that I don't have to worry about interrupting it procing or it being stripped.

~EpWa

If you aren't bringing quickness along and are playing solo DW is indeed a nice trait to have. The attack speeds on everything finally feel right. It's as if the 1H weapon's attack speeds are what they are assuming you'd be taking that trait.

[hash.8462]

I continue to think that Dual Wielding just need a "+xxx ferocity when under the effect of quickness" in addition of the current effect.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Actually dual wield is getting buffed next patch.

...by removal of party quickness from core. With that much quickness gone, anything non zerker gets much more mileage from this trait.

Albeit the requirement to have two weapons of same type is stupid.

Edited June 23, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[bruakumfd.4817]

Maybe it's because I haven't mained a Warrior in years (Berserker was my answer), I'm confused at why you wouldn't want a guaranteed rally. It'd be one thing if somebody argued that should be baseline since no other profession has to worry about. However, I don't see anything like that.

[Greyrat.2378]

42 minutes ago, bruakumfd.4817 said:

Maybe it's because I haven't mained a Warrior in years (Berserker was my answer), I'm confused at why you wouldn't want a guaranteed rally. It'd be one thing if somebody argued that should be baseline since no other profession has to worry about. However, I don't see anything like that.

Since the trait itself is mostly useful only in sPvP (in WvW if you are roaming it does not offer much value and it's pointless to run it in zerg), you could argue that it can be useful, but question is whether you even get the chance to use Vengeance in first place.
In teamfights you might get cleaved or you have support that has rez signet or something else making the trait obsolete, on side nodes in 1v1 scenario there is a high chance that person will just stack stability and finish you before you get the chance to use it.
Warrior's Sprint offers way more value compared to Vengeful Return (more mobility, removes immob, more damage).
I believe you also still need to kill the target, no? It just makes it guaranteed that you will be rallied if you get the kill. Idk why would you consider this a good trait.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Greyrat.2378

[GamerToad.9248]

1 minute ago, Greyrat.2378 said:

Since the trait itself is mostly useful only in sPvP (in WvW if you are roaming it does not offer much value and it's pointless to run it in zerg), you could argue that it can be useful, but question is whether you even get the chance to use Vengeance in first place.
In teamfights you might get cleaved or you have support that has rez signet or something else making the trait obsolete, on side nodes in 1v1 scenario there is a high chance that person will just stack stability and finish you before you get the chance to use it.
Warrior's Sprint offers way more value compared to Vengeful Return (more mobility, removes immob, more damage).

agree with you... 1 out of 10 times when i am downed i get to use the skill and even lower chance to kill anything in the time it is up.

 

i wonder who is confused face my post when i am right about those skills being really inferior to anything in game.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

12 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Albeit the requirement to have two weapons of same type is stupid.

Then, I have good news!  You don't have to have both weapons be the same type.  Just so long as your OH weapon is a mace, sword, axe, or dagger you're good to go.  Just tested w/ various combos of sw, d, and m to be sure i'm not talkin' out my rear since it also used to only be mace, sword, or axe.  😄 

(aa for mace/dagger was the easiest to tell the difference in speed when compared to mace/nothing... faster, but still slow af)

~EpWa

Edited June 24, 2023 by EphemeralWallaby.7643

[felix.2386]

vengful is ok, maybe add a remove CD on revenge

but dualwield on the other hand is complete garbage.

if warrior weapon skills are actually nice to us, sure

but weapon skills are meh, and mainly you need to burst, and weapon swap.

weapon skills are just fillers.

etc

there's so many more problems that make this trait garbage.

when you can basically get perma quickness on hammer/mace

you only get 20% speed with trait and you also have to equip a main hand weapon on off hand.

there's very little weapon combo that allows you to have 2 set of dual wields.

only thing i can think of is axe/axe mace/mace..but if you using mace, why would you not just use the cc quickness trait..also axe off hand also give quickness...

and the better offhands are not mainhand weapon, pistol, shield, warhorn, (pve)torch.

the only ok one is axe, but axe already has quickness as well..

so it's like meh...not to mention the combo axe/axe mace/mace is only used by berserker, and berserker already have quickness AND have a 15% speed that does NOT stack with the 20% speed...

so if you take berserker more than 50% may be 70% or 80% of the times, your trait is non existence..

if you spellbreaker you obviously just take cc quickness

and if you BsW..you take pistol..and gunsaber is not dualwield...and dragon trigger doesnt benefit from quickness..

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by felix.2386