Virtuoso Redesign

[mirage.8046]

By far, this elite spec is a mess in terms of identity. on one hand, it's supposed to be about music and songs; on the other hand, it revolves all-around blades. either one would be enough conceptually alone. 

Thematically, we have a solid idea. music and songs are what a virtuoso does, usually an expert in arts or curios. so my rework will still include them. the dagger Virtuoso was given will not be mentioned here. 

Shatters are gone, so virtuoso's new mechanics are now "songs;" these profession mechanic skills have no cast times, much like core shatter skills.

Core skills and traits that revolve around clones, illusions, and phantasms are completely modified. Traits that enhance phantasms instead enhance lyrics. Trait skills that summon a phantasm or clones instead create songs. When you create a clone, instead create a song page, e.g., scepter 3, sword 3, spear 2, staff 2, trident 3, and greatsword 2.

Phantasmal skills are turned into 'lyrical skills;' instead, the player now performs that skill instead of the specific phantasm; now said player can press every 'lyrical skill' without requiring a target. Lyrical skills also summon musical notes to attack your enemies as well; these notes also stock a song page; this also goes for phantasm utilities, mirror images, and decoy. Signet of illusions now also creates a song instead of a clone; its passive and active are also completely changed.

Example: Lyrical Berserker causes you to rage at enemies, rushing to your target and evading attacks. Remove boons from enemies and create whirl finishers. Flavorfully, you shout your lyrics while performing these skills. Sword 5, pistol 4, focus 5, torch 5, spear 3, trident 4, and staff 3 all perform lyrical skills. 

Signet of Illusions:
passive: create a song every 10 seconds.
active: while channeling this signet, pulse torment, confusion, and chill; if it completes, fear enemies, and instantly recharge all your songs.

Mirror Songs: pull out two songs to distract your enemies. Breaks stun and breaks enemy targeting. 

Accidental Symbol: summon a note that bounces to enemies and removes boons from them. It deals increased damage to people without boons; it also chills and weakens them if it removes the maximum number of boons.

Fan Support: Summon a note that blocks incoming attacks. Sing several lyrics to your enemies while taunting them. When the note finishes blocking, the note explodes, dealing increased damage for each attack it blocked. 

Decoy: Create false songs at your enemies, damage them, and immediately enter stealth. Stock a song page. Breaks stun. (This skill always deals damage before you enter stealth.)

Moving on to the Virtuoso: 
song f1: harmonious song
song f2: sorrowful song
song f3: dissonant song
song f4: distorted song
song f5: terrifying song
All of these songs are also blast finishers. 

Harmonious Song: perform all of your songs, dealing increased strike damage per pulse for each song stacked. This skill will strike the closest enemies to you if possible.
Sorrowful Song: perform a massive wave of noisy gloomy songs, confusing enemies in front of you per pulse. This skill leaves behind dark fields for each song you stacked.
Dissonant Song: unleash ear-piercingly loud songs, dazing enemies each second. 
Distorted Song: create clashing tones while gaining distortion. Pulse distortion for each song stacked.
Terrifying Song: select a targeted area to perform noise, striking enemies with songs for several seconds. It leaves behind a lightning field. Weaken enemies who are in the area.

New Utility Type: Vocals

Twin Tenor: Sing your two loudest voices, heal, and remove conditions. (3 conditions removed.) Gain aegis, vigor, and an additional random boon after healing (swiftness or resolution).

Bass Drop: make a few sharp falling beats, and immediately deal damage in front of you in several areas. (Combo Finisher: Blast)
Quarter Notes: Drop your notes in the targeted area, and deal damage over time. If the final note hits an enemy, confuse and chill them. (Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile)
Countertenor: Knockback enemies with a shrieking countertenor; if foes were in melee range, they will be tormented and chilled as well. (Combo Finisher: Blast)
Soprano: Gain distortion and gather all of your songs. Flipover skill: screech all of your songs, piercing enemies' eardrums. Enemies are inflicted with conditions; if foes were in melee range, you double the condition stacks. This skill always triggers Harmonious Song. 

Elite: Thousand Voices
Open a portal of musical notes that constantly damage enemies. While it's active, you take reduced power damage (-10%). The last voice stuns enemies if they're in melee range, or fears them if they're farther away from you. (2s Fear within 450 range; 4s stun within 130 range.) Ground Targeted Skill with 600 radii with a frontal area.

Adept Traits

Minor adept trait: whenever you try to summon a clone or phantasm, you now deliver a song; songs will be stored indefinitely and will persist even out of combat.

Mental Focus: this trait stays the same as is.
Disruptive Mind: when foes walk closer to you, you periodically confuse them. (cooldown: 10s) critical hits inflict weakness, and weakness confuses. (no CD on this aspect of the trait.)
Concentrated Refrain: Songs grant aegis.

Minor Major 
Deadly Tone: Activating songs grant temporary outgoing damage. Inflict vulnerability on critical hits. 

Major Traits

Emotional Recovery: This trait temporarily decreases incoming power damage and condition damage by 15%. Gain regeneration and quickness when you successfully dodge attacks.
Lyrical State: After you finish using a lyrical skill, gain fury and deliver musical notes to your enemies. (This trait causes power damage still!)
Sorrowful Experience:  This trait causes you to gain an aura after you heal or remove conditions. This kind of aura heals you over time for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 8s)

Grandmaster Minor

Quiet Intensity: Fury increases your ferocity and critical chance (300 ferocity and 15% critical chance). Gain ferocity based on your vitality (10% still!).

Grandmaster Trait

Fast Reaction: Successfully dodging or blocking attacks grants vigor and the unblockable effect. While you have vigor, your endurance regeneration is increased (10% increase).
Songs of Comeback: after you unleash songs, reduce your lyrical skills if they're on cooldown. (Recharge reduced: 3s.)
Shock Value: Songs now have a larger radius; after interrupting an enemy, you fear them. Deal increased break bar damage to defiant enemies. (Bonus break bar damage: 100.)

[Leonidrex.5649]

The identity of virtuoso is : no clones.
Thats it.
Its as if they made necrosis spec and all it does is removes necro shroud and instead you get separate f1-f5 skills that do the exact kittening thing.

[mirage.8046]

14 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

The identity of virtuoso is : no clones.
Thats it.
Its as if they made necrosis spec and all it does is removes necro shroud and instead you get separate f1-f5 skills that do the exact kittening thing.

exactly. yup, at that point, you wonder whether said elite spec should be scrapped or go to the drawing board again.

[Levetty.1279]

19 hours ago, mirage.8046 said:

on one hand, it's supposed to be about music and songs

Not really but ok

[Doctor Hide.6345]

5 hours ago, mirage.8046 said:

exactly. yup, at that point, you wonder whether said elite spec should be scrapped or go to the drawing board again.

Or it should be kept as is because it is fine as is. You make portals and shoot blades through portals like Gilgamesh from Fate/Stay series. The spec does fine damage as well for it being ranged focused. It is also closer to the original mesmer in GW1 as well, so if you want the clone gameplay, there is two other elite specs already for that. Virtuoso is fine as is for people like me who prefer it that way. 

Edit: and Yes, I did read your suggestions. I still prefer the current way it is designed over the song stuff.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Skyroar.2974]

Virtuoso has nothing to do with songs except some skills arbitrarily having the word song put into their names. 

It's 100% a psychic blade flavored spec. 

[Dayra.7405]

Don't touch my virtuoso, I like it as it is!

Edited June 23, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[Batalix.2873]

I do agree that Virt doesn't really have much dimension and could really use at least a support traitline that adds more of a mind-mage/musician vibe to it. Also maybe shooting the blades with a shortbow weapon with be more interesting than the dagger.

In general the EoD specs all feel half-baked. I've never taken any of them outside of the PvP lounge other than a brief attempt to make Cata feel good--the HoT/PoF specs are just better designed and better execute on distinct fantasies than their EoD counterparts. So I am all for a redo to give them more identity and dimension.

[Cenzurat.7013]

I'd rather have em change the name of the spec and skills that mention songs, if they change anything.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

Virtuoso was the devs listening to the Mesmer community.

How many threads are in these forums suggesting the EoD eSpec for Mesmer being a Bard or other musician themed profession?  How many threads were asking for no illusion gameplay?

Those were two of the top requests for EoD and Virtuoso delivered them.  I respect that it isn't anywhere close to what anyone had ever asked for but, the players who post on these forums appear to spend more time thinking about Mesmer than the devs who maintain the profession.

To the OP, I wasn't specifically moved by your proposition.  It is fine and I appreciate the work you put into it.  Vituoso is quite playable and I get the feeling that the EoD specs will continue to receive far more tweaks and attention to keep them just ahead of the earlier eSpecs. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

16 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

It is also closer to the original mesmer in GW1 as well

No, its not.
It's literally the same as GW2 mesmer except clones were renamed blades.

[mirage.8046]

1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Virtuoso was the devs listening to the Mesmer community.

How many threads are in these forums suggesting the EoD eSpec for Mesmer being a Bard or other musician themed profession?  How many threads were asking for no illusion gameplay?

Those were two of the top requests for EoD and Virtuoso delivered them.  I respect that it isn't anywhere close to what anyone had ever asked for but, the players who post on these forums appear to spend more time thinking about Mesmer than the devs who maintain the profession.

To the OP, I wasn't specifically moved by your proposition.  It is fine and I appreciate the work you put into it.  Vituoso is quite playable and I get the feeling that the EoD specs will continue to receive far more tweaks and attention to keep them just ahead of the earlier eSpecs. 

yeah, I recall seeing many old threads about Bard espec ideas or ones focusing on music; I too am happy Virtuoso isn't focused on clones.

it's because people's ideas don't translate to what the devs' ideas are; it's why people think there is a 'sense of disconnection.' they don't think from the devs' perspectives as well.

there are so many ways or themes one elite spec could have been designed, and I appreciate that.

true, the spec isn't that awful to play; give anet time, and they could change the EoD specs in future updates.

[dead.7638]

2 hours ago, mirage.8046 said:

it's because people's ideas don't translate to what the devs' ideas are; it's why people think there is a 'sense of disconnection.' they don't think from the devs' perspectives as well.

Maybe if the devs communicated with the community this wouldn’t be such a dumpster fire on the class forum.   All I’ve seen are empty promises and others broken.   0 vision moving forward and always very random nerfs and buffs that come from no where.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

5 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

No, its not.
It's literally the same as GW2 mesmer except clones were renamed blades.

Chronomancer is literally no different from Core Mesmer except the shatters are about 20% more powerful and one allows you to reset skill cooldowns.

Virtuoso at least flips the core mechanic around. It's no longer a distraction mechanic tied to specific targets and now functions more like a resource mechanic that is persistent to the player.

The Virtuoso takes the Mesmer mechanic and makes it much easier to use.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

17 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Chronomancer is literally no different from Core Mesmer except the shatters are about 20% more powerful and one allows you to reset skill cooldowns.

Virtuoso at least flips the core mechanic around. It's no longer a distraction mechanic tied to specific targets and now functions more like a resource mechanic that is persistent to the player.

The Virtuoso takes the Mesmer mechanic and makes it much easier to use.

CS skill allows different plays.

Clones are a resource mechanic too, sure clones allow for distraction and body block, but their main function is food for shatter.

So, what part of that makes virtuoso similar to gw1 mesmer?

[Roadkizzle.2157]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

CS skill allows different plays.

Clones are a resource mechanic too, sure clones allow for distraction and body block, but their main function is food for shatter.

So, what part of that makes virtuoso similar to gw1 mesmer?

I don't know anything about GW1 Mesmer. I never played GW1.

 

I was saying that Chrono is the exact same as GW2 Core Mesmer.

But Virtuoso inverts the GW2 Core Mesmer mechanic slightly by putting the resource mechanic on the player instead of enemies. It means the Virtuoso plays much more fluidly than the other Mesmer specs because you get to keep the resource you built up after killing a target and use it on your next target. On the other hand the other Mesmer specs function more clunkily because clones randomly disappear when their target goes away or they get killed and your have to refill the resource from scratch.

 

CS really is just like having an extra Mimic skill on your bar. But just like the rest of Chrono its buffed a bit.

 

[Batalix.2873]

2 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

I don't know anything about GW1 Mesmer. I never played GW1.

 

I was saying that Chrono is the exact same as GW2 Core Mesmer.

But Virtuoso inverts the GW2 Core Mesmer mechanic slightly by putting the resource mechanic on the player instead of enemies. It means the Virtuoso plays much more fluidly than the other Mesmer specs because you get to keep the resource you built up after killing a target and use it on your next target. On the other hand the other Mesmer specs function more clunkily because clones randomly disappear when their target goes away or they get killed and your have to refill the resource from scratch.

 

CS really is just like having an extra Mimic skill on your bar. But just like the rest of Chrono its buffed a bit.

 

To be fair, I don't think core Mesmer's chaotic clone nature is necessarily a bad thing. It's certainly much more manageable and versatile than Ele's baked-in attunement-swapping obligations. I actually appreciate that clones introduce a bit of randomness/proccing to make the class more engaging.

Chrono wants to keep up a steady loop of phantasm summons and clone shatters, so the periodic loss of them doesn't break the class except when dealing with strings of weak mobs (which, hey, I don't particularly care if every class has the same utility/floor in every scenario). Also it is a power class so a large chunk of its damage can still be maintained just with cloneless weaponskills.

Mirage is really the only class that suffers from the core Mesmer conceit because so much of its damage/alacrity uptime is tied to clone ambushes, meaning it needs them to stay alive, and generally avoid shattering them. It does pitiable direct damage by itself, and needs time and the extra clones to ramp up condi damage. Again I don't hate Mirage as is since it is quite fun in large amounts of content, but it couldn't hurt to either: (a) add to a minor trait a persistence window for clones so they are more likely to survive between mobs, or (b) reconfigure Mirage shatters so that Mirage only shatters one clone at a time, allowing it more granularity over how many clones it keeps alive at any moment.