ANet please, PLEASE Revert the [Daring Dragon] Change and put Alacrity on [Immortal Dragon], or just Spellbreaker instead.

[felix.2386]

yea, both GM for BsW is trash but at least daring dragon is altered gameplay, immortal dragon did not alter gameplay and is also trash, tbh tho? both need reworks.

[Leo G.4501]

18 minutes ago, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

I'm going to be honest though, Daring Dragon was weak...and when I first tried it, I found it to be rather janky because you can't just pull DT after DT instantly and there was a cooldown for a second before you can do that. The lack of damage and CC from Unyielding Dragon didn't help either. What it needed was some buffs to make it viable, not a full rework.

You want a rework, do it on Immortal Dragon, I find *zero* players using that.

You're not wrong. In PvE, DD was how I first got aquainted with all the dragon trigger skills by using them alot of times and it is (was?) weaker than UD. If there were more varied burst traits, it would help flesh out builds that use this GM tho. That and it still did moderate damage in WvW.

[TiedHam.4923]

14 hours ago, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

I'm going to be honest though, Daring Dragon was weak...and when I first tried it, I found it to be rather janky because you can't just pull DT after DT instantly and there was a cooldown for a second before you can do that. The lack of damage and CC from Unyielding Dragon didn't help either. What it needed was some buffs to make it viable, not a full rework.

You want a rework, do it on Immortal Dragon, I find *zero* players using that.

@NeverLoseGuy.3894

So I know this is thrown around a lot, but I 100% genuinely don't mean this as "offensive" as in taking-the-offense or opposition to what you said, but:

It's this EXACT sentiment of: "I tried it once & comparatively it sucked (without thinking how you might use / build for this trait differently)" is why I'm *mad if you can call it that. Because ANet just took the trait's unique functionality away. Seemingly also without checking / thinking about how it might be used in a clever way.

I mean, GO LOOK at the first post @PseudoOAlias.4279 who started this thread linked. He says he made it to top 250 and was running ARMS & DEFENSE. FREAKING ARMS. | (This is also what I was trying with Discipline: to stack vuln + guarantee that your Triggers crit.) *Altho it turns out I was on the wrong path & as you stated there's a mandatory delay of kit swapping & re-swapping before you can use another slash, regardless of whether you have Versatile Power or not. And he's making it work w/ a freaking Valkyrie Amulet because he literally doesn't need the crit chance because he can allocate that build budget elsewhere; Something that Warrior RARELY gets to do because they need to build pure power because all their skills except axe 5 scale like garbage. This is Genius. And if that's not the definition of clever build crafting, I don't know what is.

-----

ID Objectively sucks by comparison to it's siblings. And is DEFINATELY where they should shunt alacrity to, or LF if they have to. Makes 0 sense to take away unique gameplay, as you did say, for just PvE alac.

[GigityCat.7529]

Anyone else think it's kinda weird that they still haven't updated the tooltip as well?

[UpsHigh.5724]

@GigityCat.7529

Because they have better things to do. Like working on actually supported content. Which Warrior is clearly not. 😞

[FellFalls.3750]

Cool, Today's Update brought:

 [Arc Divider] Still at 1 hit.

 [Daring Dragon] Still has a broken tooltip & no mention of a revert for either anywhere.

 Little to no other Warrior Changes.

Gotta say: you're not really inspiring me to rush out & buy the new XPac ANet.

[Guy.9207]

8 hours ago, FellFalls.3750 said:

 [Daring Dragon] Still has a broken tooltip & no mention of a revert for either anywhere.

Just checked in game. It has an *old* tooltip prior to the rework, like hello, what is this?

[FShoppe.6572]

15 hours ago, NeverLoseGuy.3894 said:

Just checked in game. It has an *old* tooltip prior to the rework, like hello, what is this?

@NeverLoseGuy.3894

It was the old (########) string, then it was the OLD OLD tooltip, and now it's actually updated. At least they fixed it. But if that's not an indicator that Warrior (+Bladesworn) changes get 2 seconds of development / testing time / enthusiasm idk what is. I really wish ANet would hire someone who's actually excited to design, balance, and play Warrior. Hell, hire Hugh back for all I care. Just literally someone.

[FirePowerr.1820]

kitten, for a minute there the old tooltip gave me hope that they actually listened / cared. Reminds me of my favorite April Fool's joke at 14:21: 

Ahh good times. 😃

[FShoppe.6572]

Mine was this:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1592690890?t=00h41m34s

Altho tbh, I don't care if it's in the PvP meta. I just want my fun trait back.  It was never meta. But it was meta in my heart. At least for Roaming.

Edited July 21, 2023 by FShoppe.6572

[GigityCat.7529]

@FShoppe.6572

I think yall' being too harsh. My money's on that the "A team" is working on the new weapons/Relics and I do really think that the "B team" did this patch and that "B team" wasn't really experienced on what was actually fun like you said, on all classes.

The 600 alacrity radius was good cause DT users can't move. But clearly not Warrior and hopefully they listen/realize their mistake and add the fun back like you said. I've been trying some more PvP now and it's kind of annoying that the only relevant trait Bladesworn has is [Unshakable Mountain] tho. A trait that triggers off the last charge' of ammunition. Which is a competitive playstyle (sitting at the last charge and spamming) that ArenaNet already said that they don't want to reinforce. So 404...

[squidkisser.2643]

I dont write often on this forum. But this ^ deserves to be heard/bumped.

I haven't played my warrior for a long time, and monday I just discovered this nonsense. Old daring dragon was fun and flavourful, this new version feels like a boring new way to get alacrity, that" chronomancer thing" every class can pop right now. and even better than Chrono. (don't get me wrong, having this buff on a single class wasn't healthy either).

You want alacrity on warrior, put in on the coming staff or whatever. Not sure anyone asked for it anyway. And removing trait that felt very unique is a bad move. By doing so, you're going a way where differences between classes are reduced and everything tastes the same in the end.  

[TyrantPuppy.1893]

Ok this thread's been bouncing around the top of the forum for literally weeks since the balance patch, so I'll take the hit to my account:

Yo Cal. Old [Daring Dragon] was fun. I don't think anyone's expecting immediate turn around on this but PLEASE give us back our old, fun, trait back!!

I'd personally favor just moving the existing DD to [Immortal Dragon] at this point because it's easy. Maybe make it AoE heal too, chunk it up to 8 bullets and remove the increased damage/bullet scaling (if you added any.)

But there's 1,000,000 better reworks in this tread for this!! Please, Please, PLEASE let Bladesworn's enjoy the like, one, actually clever & fun part of our kit that we had!! 🙏😁😁

 

Thank you for reading!

@Cal Cohen.2358

[CrashCrusFGH.8904]

@TyrantPuppy.1893

Having all the Grandmaster's actually dictate how many "bullets" you could load is actually a Really Novel idea imo. Especially if they all have different numbers and corresponding effects that makes sense. Hell you could even have ID have the 10 base' bullets, but have Unyielding Dragon go up to like 20 or something, and probably keep the same scaling for PvP. So that it would actually take more investment to hit, BUT IF YOU DID it would ACTUALLY DO DAMAGE!! Idk just a thought.

I'd honestly prefer a less-insane solution to start personally tho. Just have the current alac trait be re-labeled ID. Bring Back DD, maybe with some resistance so you can't be immobilized (actually the low-key ultimate counter to Bladesworn since it prevents you turning to aim your shot, or DT Boost moving) and we gucci. ^^ @GigityCat.7529 Also yes, Unshakable Mountain is carrying the kit & ANet already said it's a stupid playstyle. Bring it down so you're not just "playing Unshakable Mountain" when you equip Bladesworn & make some of the utilities / GS skills actually interesting. :D

[FirePowerr.1820]

Dear God do I want the current (bugged) tooltip to be real:

https://imgur.com/a/RvujVmP

Edited July 24, 2023 by FirePowerr.1820
PLEASE <3

[SkyRight.2370]

@FirePowerr.1820

I really do too. This would be the exact slight buff that old DD needed. But it's hard not to feel that the devs in charge are just legitimately mocking us at this point. Really makes me want to continue playing Guild Wars 2...

[FirePowerr.1820]

@SkyRight.2370

I know right.

[FellFalls.3750]

I'd settle for the existing tooltip becoming reality. But if they do that hopefully they do something with ID down the line to make it relevant. Maybe 1 burning stack / bullet loaded or something.

[Gorem.8104]

On 6/28/2023 at 4:36 PM, PseudoOAlias.4279 said:

Old [Daring Dragon] was supposed to be the PvP trait. It was fun, unique, and while people thought it was underpowered, it was actually pretty good and scaled well if you built for it.

This alacrity change was clearly a half-baked idea to begin with. The [Daring Dragon] gives 10 seconds of alacrity without any boon duration in PvE and the tooltip isn't even done.

New [Daring Dragon] provides 3s of alacrity in PvP and WvW to an attack that barely does any damage there to begin with and has the most ridiculous "use requirements" of Building 100 flow and then channeling without being interrupted to use. If you want Bladesworn to do alacrity for PvE fine. Everything's nuts now so why not. But why not just put this in the slot that [Immortal Dragon] is using and bring back the FUN version of [Daring Dragon]? The idea of a Grandmaster shifting a slash from: "Something that supports your allies" to "One big hit that generates might & is ublockable" to "One that does a bunch of little hits but gets progressively stronger as it applies vulnerability if you spec into the flow to maintain it." You could even revert the change and make new-new DD give alacrity per charge loaded. That way you could still give out alacrity by doing a bunch of little slashes. Best of both worlds.

As is in WvW the only use for existing [Daring Dragon] is roaming with 100% boon duration. And even this just generates a build that is even more spamm-y than before. Partially because [Shield Master] is still bugged and lets you permanently reflect projectiles as long as you upkeep aegis and partially because regular Dragon Slashes STILL DO NO DAMAGE. Meanwhile Deadeyes are running around with new [Steal Time] that can be double-cast over their shoulder at 1500 range and hits for 7K+ without any might, vs a fully charged [Dragon Slash] doesn't even do 6K and misses half the time because of terrain jank.

The old options were already in the game, and I will eat an actual shoe if you provide me metrics that more players were using [Immortal Dragon] than old [Daring Dragon]. Ya'll are always going on about "We don't want to delete cool builds unless they're dramatically over-performing." Old DD wasn't. It was just fun. Please, please, please don't make us play this way.

 

Proof that it was fun, and good but not OP:

 

Proof that it's viable but not the best:

 

You should know by now, Warrior is not allowed to have fun things or win. 

[PseudoOAlias.4279]

While I'm somewhat relieved to see other people sharing this sentiment, I think this thread lost the plot a bit:

+ To @NeverLoseGuy.3894's Point: Yes old [Daring Dragon] DID suck in PvE. But that's like saying "[Eternal Champion] sucks compared to [Bloody Roar] or [Thermal Release Valve] sucks for power damage compared to [Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit] or [Photonic Blasting Module]. [Daring Dragon] was never designed for / billed for PvE at all.

This reflects a common problem I've been observing, not only in the Warrior section, but through all the "profession" sections on this forum, and thus also the game, where: There seems to be a huge, stark divide between people who play all game-modes and those who only play one gamemode and for whom the others might as well not exist. (Usually just PvE but not always.) And I have observed, especially post this-most-recent-balance-patch, that whenever someone makes a post they tend to assume that all other players also play either "PvAll" or "just PvY" and expect others to have context for their ideas.

This is why my main point was that I really, really don't like the [Daring Dragon] change by ANet because it reflects a shift towards endorsing this mentality of unnecessarily sacrificing pieces of PvP/WvW kits in favor of turning these pieces into just PvE tools that perform, but clearly don't perfectly slot into a Specialization's designed "kit." (As they did with the 2nd Berserker rework years ago -- before it was proven that there was an easy middle-ground between gaining more adrenaline or duration on Rage Skill Use depending on what gamemode you were in.) 

And while I think there are definitely ways they could/can hybridize traits for all game modes: (e.g. Just put alacrity on the repeated slash OG trait, and/or make the alacrity granted be *per-bullet and have different scaling in each game mode.) They just didn't, and instead took away another piece of Bladesworn's already waning PvP kit so that it could do "X current design goal in PvE" -- in this case dump out alacrity. Which I honestly, don't think is healthy, aligns with their original vision of cross-gamemode-impactful-gameplay, or is at all necessary. Hopefully they revert or revise this at some point. But it's mainly worrying because they sacrificed a more functionality-oriented trait when there was objectively a better and more redundant option: [Immortal Dragon].

*I do just think it was easiest with the damage target that they were trying to hit since the trait already had the 5-reduced bullet coding. (Especially since they still, at time of writing, either have still not implemented the stated increased damage-per-bullet scaling -- no one seems to be sure if this existed & then immediately went away, or the double charge rate per-bullet.)

Warrior is not the only profession in the game, but it's clearly the most lacking. And ideally I'd really like to see more care paid to Warrior and hybrid traits like the above implemented. Failing that, I'd like to at least see the existing alacrity trait just moved to [Immortal Dragon] or ideally [Lush Forest] since having the 2 effects seems redundant and old [Daring Dragon] revived or the current broken tooltip implemented.

*Or revived with ancillary alacrity added to it or a different boon (realistically, honestly:, stability and/or resistance for PvP/WvW) -- since Bladesworn currently has 0 and this might be a good way to give it some -- i.e. having some stab+resistance for successive slashes (if not the first) which would retain the existing counter-play of being able to CC bladesworn while they're charging the first slash, while still giving in PvE.

As far as PvE goes:

I understand why they just went with the flat 10s of huge aoe alacrity in PvE that obviously feels so powerful:
a) Tbh it was probably easy because the coding was simpler.
&
b) They likely suspect that a LOT of players don't understand how Dragon Trigger works, at all. And don't want there to be a huge 'punishment' for accidentally moving/canceling your DT stance with wasdqe.

But if that is the case I'm just gonna say: "Look, Anet, if people can figure out how to charge 10 bullets to do damage, they can figure out how to charge 5 to give alacrity." I know you want to make content like Raids and CMs more accessible. I do too! But have some faith in both your PvE community (that they can read) as well as your Build Crafting Community (that you supposedly want to encourage) that we can come up with clever ways to use the cool & fun, gameplay-altering tools that you put in the game like: Old [Daring Dragon].

Please bring back old [Daring Dragon] and stop only seemingly listening to the loud people shouting that "a thing sucks because they don't understand how to use it." The people who aren't shouting are probably not doing so because they're actually having fun with your game!

Meme' builds are only memes' until they win a monthly EU Automated Tournament. Then they're "Broken as F*ck" and "So good a monkey could play it." -Just 2 of the quotes I got while using this EXTREEMLY FUN build to top PvP, despite it having a ton of nuances that you actually had to learn, because I enjoyed it. (See that thumbnail for more proof ^.) And I know I'm not the only one. It *is,* however, my biased AF opinion that: "Fun and unique builds should exist and be balanced, not be deleted" as Cal has stated numerous times. Especially if there is a better option that's also simpler. And there is. It's on the top row of the Grandmaster line in Bladesworn. And I hope this can align with your macro game design philosophy too.

Thanks for reading & Cheers!! \o/

[CornFarm.9260]

ANet if you're not gonna fix the actual trait can you at least fix the tooltip so it stops sitting there just taunting people. 😭

[FellFalls.3750]

I'd really rather they just move the existing trait to the [ID] slot and restore old [DD] or just put an icd on the alacrity timer and restore old [DD] like the tooltip says.

We all know they can. Looking at you: [Heat the Soul].

[Myror.7521]

@FellFalls.3750 but Heat the Soul is totaly garbage cause of the CD it got lel.

[FellFalls.3750]

@Myror.7521

Yup. And yet having an icd with the old functionality would somehow still be less stupid imo. Unless they did something catastrophically idiotic like 20s+ or or a number that didn't line up with Warrior mechanics like burst skill cooldown reductions or DT cooldowns or something. Which they would never, ever do... right...? /s

Edited August 3, 2023 by FellFalls.3750

[Guy.9207]

12 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@FellFalls.3750 but Heat the Soul is totaly garbage cause of the CD it got lel.

I tried using it, and it's not bad, if you ask me. You can practically almost have 100% boon uptime in pve, so as long as you have another trait that covers the remaining downtime you basically get perma-quickness.