New Power Quick Herald Build and how it works

[Kanok.3027]

This video I created real quick shows how with the new build, you can achieve perma-quickness on Herald without any Concentration or Boon Duration runes. My gear is full Berserkers with Scholar runes. The gameplay is not optimal by any stretch of the imagination, but basically it's a dead simple thing to get perma-Quickness on Herald while still dishing out DPS. You can even maintain it on any of the core Legends since each of them has a utility/elite utility that will drain your energy slowly enough to maintain it and allow you to still DPS/heal just fine. And yes, this can be done on any Herald build, be it Ventari healing, Mallyx condi or DPS on Jalis/Shiro. As long as you can do that negative energy uptime, quickness will pulse to you and your group. Enjoy!

[Athef.6879]

Thing is; this looks... incredibly boring to play. Nerfing the quickness output would just kill it completely, as I'm not sure how many people will be content with playing something which was basically in its entirety reduced down to 'activate this, autoattack for 20 seconds, switch legends, activate this other thing, autoattack time'. There's absolutely no room for anything else outside of .the occasional 2, let alone if you want to, *gasp*, switch to staff for cc, or put down Inspiring Reinforcement on Jalis (or distribute any other boon that isn't quickness, while we're at it).

Edited June 28, 2023 by Athef.6879

[Seon.8402]

2 hours ago, Athef.6879 said:

There's absolutely no room for anything else outside of .the occasional 2, let alone if you want to, *gasp*, switch to staff for cc, or put down Inspiring Reinforcement on Jalis (or distribute any other boon that isn't quickness, while we're at it).

Maybe the intent here is to give you the choice of 1) take no boon duration which will make you prioritize upkeep skills if you want full quickness uptime or 2) invest in some boon duration so you can build up extra quickness and not have to only use upkeep skills, freeing up energy for road, etc.

[ZenDrake.8316]

You've also lost a lot of potential for utility. Instead of being able to put down 2 stab roads on Jalis you are now basically forced to just put down one and turn on the hammers immediately for quickness.

Just now, Seon.8402 said:

Maybe the intent here is to give you the choice of 1) take no boon duration which will make you prioritize upkeep skills if you want full quickness uptime or 2) invest in some boon duration so you can build up extra quickness and not have to only use upkeep skills, freeing up energy for road, etc.

Oh yeah, I can imagine all the pugs that will offer to sacrifice their own dps in order to actually be useful to the group outside of quickness... With most pugs just blindly copying what SC is saying, this will not happen. It's already the case with Vindicator, where barely anyone takes a staff for CC heavy fights (like Samarog).

Edited June 28, 2023 by ZenDrake.8316

[Seon.8402]

4 minutes ago, ZenDrake.8316 said:

Oh yeah, I can imagine all the pugs that will offer to sacrifice their own dps in order to actually be useful to the group outside of quickness

Lol I could definitely see that. I just know that Anet has been pushing offensive support builds to usually require some boon duration to help differentiate them more from full dps. So to me this change is a bit odd but my thought is that this kind of fits in with that, but also giving a bit of freedom to do some smaller trade offs.

[Athef.6879]

1 hour ago, Seon.8402 said:

Maybe the intent here is to give you the choice of 1) take no boon duration which will make you prioritize upkeep skills if you want full quickness uptime or 2) invest in some boon duration so you can build up extra quickness and not have to only use upkeep skills, freeing up energy for road, etc.

With the way quickness generation works now, yeah you could take more boon duration, but that'd only really free up enough energy for said road and a few actual weapon skills, but you'll still be reduced to upkeeping quickness the rest of the time = just autoattacking and looking pretty, ig.

There are multiple ways they could've realized their intention without completely sucking the fun out of the build, and they went with the worst one possible. Paired with the atrocious druid changes and the alac scourge fiasco, I'm at the point where I'm convinced they're simply "throwing stuff in the pot to see what happens" and don't actually test their changes or play their game at all. Or listen to feedback, while we're at it.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Athef.6879

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

So far with my herald I open up by putting Facet of Light, Strength, and Elements on, forcing the quickness trigger, then burn them then turn on Facet of Chaos burn Light, then while my energy bar ticks down attack and use Strength and Elements as they come off CD. When my energy gets low burn Chaos then stance swap and turn on another energy burning power until Glint comes off CD to swap back.

It's been a change in how it works but since I can supply quick no matter the legendary I am in now this change hasn't been as bad. I can probably refine my rotation more, but I usually save Facet of Darkness for breakfree.

Still not happy that every other quick build has to go through hoops while the firebrand not only can just push one button, but has multiple ways outside of one set up to apply quick to others.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[Infusion.7149]

Boring is not an issue for the general playerbase, the baseline effectiveness is. Think about why alac mechanist is so popular, it upkeeps alac with autoattack on mace.

[DeathPanel.8362]

The choice to build for quickness results in you spamming skill #1 95% of the time while switching between legends which means you can't do facet might generation.  You're basically down personal dps and might generation for the team in exchange for perma quickness for the team which you could've gotten before anyway plus all the boons and personal dps.

So overall this is a massive nerf to the ceiling of Rev QDPS in exchange for making it much easier to maintain QDPS.

[Aelin.9317]

I really enjoyed the utility and boon output of my herald. I hope they rethink this current iteration, I'm not a fan. 

Is it such a terrible idea to just have one thing with a longer cooldown you press to provide the quickness with a reasonable amount of boon duration in the build? Does it really have to be spam skills in one extreme or sit and rotate in the other? If you want to be able to adapt to a situation neither extreme is good for the herald. It's my most played spec and it's just not enjoyable right now. The playstyle is very rigid feeling currently. 

I'll be playing other specs for a while and avoiding group content since I just suck on other things and I don't want to troll people.

Fingers crossed they improve druid as well. 

[Dolurrh.5479]

Not a fan of the changes either. Not at all.

I can see why ANet wanted to move away from the button mashing a bit, but turning you into a class that basically fires up some upkeep skills, autoattacks until you run dry, legend swap, repeat, is actually even worse.

6 upkeep is WAY too steep. I like the core idea, but the implementation just sucks. Lower it to 4, to give us some leftover energy to actually do something other than autoattacking.

Losing Might 50% of the time is bad enough ofa nerf as is already, dont kill the gameplay on top of it.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Dolurrh.5479

[Koxinga.1805]

Absolutely not a fan of the current implementation. I'm wondering who asked for these changes- and if it was intended to reign in Herald, perhaps they could have implemented different playstyles (traits) you could choose between. You could have the choice to maintain pips for Quickness or the choice to spam Facets.

I'm just annoyed that I had finally found a class I enjoyed. The Facet flip skills were cool and I enjoyed being able to use them and generate lots of boons to patch up the party's coverage.

 

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

Been doing more refining and this is what I am leaning on now;

The way the current system works is basically ignore Facet of Nature. Just pretend it never existed. Maybe use it and pop it quickly, but that's about it.

My new rotation has been turn on Facet of Strength and Facet of Chaos to get 6 upkeep. Burn Facet of Light, Elements, and Darkness on CD. If you want to Burn Strength, rotate in Nature until strength returns then burn nature and restore strength. Go until your bar is near depleted then burn strength and chaos then stance swap and turn on the maintain that keeps my upkeep at 6 and wait for the energy bar to deplete to give time for facet CDs. This allows me to actually use attacks more frequently and keep up my DPS.

Basically gives us near 100% quicktime but over all it's a lot of hoop jumping to again do what a firebrand can do just having multiple avenues to do the same thing. Never mind we don't even come close to applying as many boons as a firebrand does on top of the fact they also have a constant damage aura going, offensive weapons that also apply healing and boons, or an ability to use breakfrees without worry of juggling their energy usage. Hell, never mind the source of their quickness, the mantras, have three charges apiece.

Overall, nerf doesn't really help the herald, and we don't supply as many boons either. Lack an aegis, just don't get what ANet is trying to do if their goal was to make other elite specs more viable for the roles they decided to give special perks to for Firebrand and Mechanist.

[draxynnic.3719]

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Boring is not an issue for the general playerbase, the baseline effectiveness is. Think about why alac mechanist is so popular, it upkeeps alac with autoattack on mace.

I've heard that they stealth-nerfed that by moving the barrier from the autoattack to skill 2.

[Polar.8634]

I don't understand. If you want to press more buttons, add some concentration, so that you don't need to upkeep negative energy all the time and have enough to use other skills. Why changed usual 30% bd gear to full berserker and now say it is boring? (Meaning more boring then it was I guess. It was always boring)

[Allegra.9380]

Since the more different boons you provide - the more concentration is beneficial. Before this nightmare, herald provided all of the boons. Now there are two to choose from. The overall usefulness of this stat has dropped significantly. But this is just the beginning.

The main problem is energy managment not the anything else. To get more free energy, you have to turn off something earlier than you usually do. And this something is... boon?

Are you suggesting a gear with boon duration to provide less boon uptime, right?

I think this perfectly illustrates the absurdity of separating quickness and the rest of the boons into two different mechanics.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Allegra.9380

[doc.9162]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:19 PM, Kanok.3027 said:

This video I created real quick shows how with the new build, you can achieve perma-quickness on Herald without any Concentration or Boon Duration runes. My gear is full Berserkers with Scholar runes. The gameplay is not optimal by any stretch of the imagination, but basically it's a dead simple thing to get perma-Quickness on Herald while still dishing out DPS. You can even maintain it on any of the core Legends since each of them has a utility/elite utility that will drain your energy slowly enough to maintain it and allow you to still DPS/heal just fine. And yes, this can be done on any Herald build, be it Ventari healing, Mallyx condi or DPS on Jalis/Shiro. As long as you can do that negative energy uptime, quickness will pulse to you and your group. Enjoy!

great video, didnt bother loading dragon stance at all!.. just dwarf and assassins, worked a treat. ran through some t2 fractals and was getting goodish deeps.. 20k on bosses without alacrity in the group.. was surprising. because it was so effortless.

 

cant see a condi quick build sadly. not a good one at least.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

4 hours ago, doc.9162 said:

cant see a condi quick build sadly. not a good one at least.

You can do the same thing with a condi build. Not sure what you are on about there. I use a condi build and basically do the same thing that build does which is ignore facet of nature.

[Kaizz.7306]

19 hours ago, Dolurrh.5479 said:

Not a fan of the changes either. Not at all.

I can see why ANet wanted to move away from the button mashing a bit, but turning you into a class that basically fires up some upkeep skills, autoattacks until you run dry, legend swap, repeat, is actually even worse.

6 upkeep is WAY too steep. I like the core idea, but the implementation just sucks. Lower it to 4, to give us some leftover energy to actually do something other than autoattacking.

Losing Might 50% of the time is bad enough ofa nerf as is already, dont kill the gameplay on top of it.

I'd even take -5 to activate, but I'm just coming back to Rev, so my rotations and general knowledge are trash again. I feel like I should be keeping Strength, Darkness, and Light up for the might, fury, and that should be enough for the quickness., and gives you -0 energy. 

[DeathPanel.8362]

10 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

I don't understand. If you want to press more buttons, add some concentration, so that you don't need to upkeep negative energy all the time and have enough to use other skills. Why changed usual 30% bd gear to full berserker and now say it is boring? (Meaning more boring then it was I guess. It was always boring)

Adding concentration means you have lower damage which defeats the purpose of pressing those other buttons.

The bottom line, the current QDPS Rev has a far lower ceiling on its DPS in exchange for far more ease of maintaining perma quickness.

That may or may not be worth it for most people but that's something that needs to be acknowledged.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

On 6/28/2023 at 5:13 AM, Seon.8402 said:

Maybe the intent here is to give you the choice of 1) take no boon duration which will make you prioritize upkeep skills if you want full quickness uptime or 2) invest in some boon duration so you can build up extra quickness and not have to only use upkeep skills, freeing up energy for road, etc.

This was ALWAYS the choice, yet people complained about the previous iteration for being "inflexible" and "spammy." Now we have a simpler, worse implementation that was intended to make it more flexible/less spammy and now y'all are suggesting to take more boon duration to make it flexible because they didn't deliver on either of those promises!? 🤣lmao

Edited June 29, 2023 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

26 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

This was ALWAYS the choice, yet people complained about the previous iteration for being "inflexible" and "spammy." Now we have a simpler, worse implementation that was intended to make it more flexible/less spammy and now y'all are suggesting to take more boon duration to make it flexible because they didn't deliver on either of those promises!? 🤣lmao

If you think this is less spammy... well bad news.

[Dolurrh.5479]

Indeed, its still quite spammy. Glint is pretty much dead for now, theres no reason to not just go assa/dwarf and call it a day.

After a couple days now my main gripe with this iteration is the way quickness is applied. Sometimes immediately, sometimes after a while (which varies due to the 3s ticks), which makes it incredibly unresponsive and inconsistent to play.

That kitten NEEDS to go, at least apply quickness immediately after your 6th pip comes up. Having it refresh every 3s is fine imho, but the initial unreliability is SUCH a pita. Thats just not cool ANet, have another look at this.

[Kanok.3027]

5 hours ago, Dolurrh.5479 said:

Indeed, its still quite spammy. Glint is pretty much dead for now, theres no reason to not just go assa/dwarf and call it a day.

After a couple days now my main gripe with this iteration is the way quickness is applied. Sometimes immediately, sometimes after a while (which varies due to the 3s ticks), which makes it incredibly unresponsive and inconsistent to play.

That kitten NEEDS to go, at least apply quickness immediately after your 6th pip comes up. Having it refresh every 3s is fine imho, but the initial unreliability is SUCH a pita. Thats just not cool ANet, have another look at this.

They will be changing it to a 1 sec pulse with 1.25 seconds applied, so it will change to something a little quicker...no pun intended. lol

[DeathPanel.8362]

3 hours ago, Kanok.3027 said:

They will be changing it to a 1 sec pulse with 1.25 seconds applied, so it will change to something a little quicker...no pun intended. lol

This is actually a buff due to interaction with shared empowerment.  With this, I am much more satisfied with the DPS even if I have to do skill #1 90%+ of the time.  I'm just afraid of ANET realizing what they've done and overreacting with a huge follow-up nerf.