Weaponmaster Training Beta Feedback: Mesmer

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

On 6/29/2023 at 3:03 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

As a Mesmer main and I know I am going to get a lot of backlash for this because finally, Mesmers have something good, but as my main class I rather call out the nerfs then other people and Devs nerfing more than intended because of all these Mesmer haters. Dagger ambush is absolutely too strong with IH trait. It is basically P/PD thief build for but Mesmer. It is a free F3 spam ranged and can be casted backwards while all clones benefit from the daze as well. 

As much as I would love to see this live I know the Mesmer haters would call this out in a few weeks asking Mesmers to be nerfed to the ground and touch something else unintended. Don't go live with the dagger on Mirage.

Dagger on Mirage is fine. If anything it's too terrible to actually use. I'd argue it's the absolute worst mainhand weapon on Mirage. It has no utility and the damage is kitten poor. Dagger 2 and 3 are straight up useless.

Any Mirage using it is going to get their kitten pushed in. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

11 hours ago, Ghostkat.9580 said:

Wait, so you think just because something got nerfs, that somehow makes it okay for it to be literally unkillable with infinite Aegis and blocks?

Clearly you missed the entire point of my post. I wasn't "frothing at the mouth," in spite of whatever you seem to think. I was calmly pointing out that this is an issue the devs should look into because having an unkillable class with infinite blocks by definition defeats the point of a PvP mode.

Your entire response was a series of excuses. "Reminder that it didn't win MAT,". "It got 18 nerfs,". "New weapon is mediocre,".

Again, that affects it being unkillable due to getting infinite blocks how exactly? Just because something has shortcomings in damage output doesn't justify giving it a God Mode. Maybe think a little bit before rushing in to be contrarian so you can keep your response on-topic.

bruh, virtuoso was not unkillabe first of all, sec of all his F5 got nerfed to reduce number of blocks

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

On 7/4/2023 at 7:27 AM, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Dagger on Mirage is fine. If anything it's too terrible to actually use. I'd argue it's the absolute worst mainhand weapon on Mirage. It has no utility and the damage is kitten poor. Dagger 2 and 3 are straight up useless.

Any Mirage using it is going to get their kitten pushed in. 

Dagger 2 is actually pretty good on Mirage, only Virtuoso uses the new worse version of Dagger 2 (probably because of a bug). Other Mesmer specs still had the original, better version of Dagger 2 in the beta.

[Better than Jared.4062]

Removing alacrity from the chronomancers wells has totally stripped the identity and play style of the class. Also on top of it making it so alacrity is only applied by phantasms not clones also guts the class ability to play a more support based chrono. Please for the sake of the profession make it possible to have alacrity applied through wells again or provide an option so that it can be applied through the wells or the "clones" (not phantasms) but not both at the same time for balance.  Yet again these changes murdered the concept of chrono and their use of wells, it feels terrible to play and now just feel like they are the third rate pick for any class that can apply alacrity. 

[Seneca.6319]

Is the OP an ANet employee ? Does he live in the same universe like us all? You were absolutely incompetent at balancing the limited options you had to deal with already, what on earth possessed you to think that you can handle new weapons for different specs ?! Rhetorical question, the two neurons nerf team does not understand the word "balance" so why bother. 

It was fun reading everyone's reaction, a reaction I deeply resonate with. 

Btw, ANet, thank you for pushing me to discover Diablo 4. Great story, really enjoying the gameplay and the flexibility they managed to come up with in the skill tree. If it wasn't for you I would have lived in a cave for much much longer but I really owe it all to you. I think you should become an official Blizzard referral since you are already doing a great job at pushing your player base to other games, why don't you capitalize on that?

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Seneca.6319

[Crey.5263]

I for one really enjoyed the Mirage with MH Dagger.  I appreciate that the animation for the ambush attack looks like the Virtuoso f1.  I one v oned a friend and he said the clones felt like he was fighting 4 virtuoso which is nightmareish lol. 

I think it has a lot of potential to frustrate people in pvp because of the spammable dazes, which is so much fun and thematically appropriate for a class that was based on messing with your head, but because the game is almost always balanced more for pvp than pve...i imagine it will draw a nerf hammer pretty quickly.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Crey.5263

[Alsandar.7420]

I actually thought I was the only person on the forums blaming Cal. I used to get called out for it last year and criticized. Now it looks like everyone recognizes his team killed the game. Wake up Anet. You fostered one of the friendliest and most supportive communities in the entire MMO space - but all of that goodwill is squandered. It's sad when people are yelling at Rubi. It's not her fault

[Varis.5467]

2 hours ago, Alsandar.7420 said:

I actually thought I was the only person on the forums blaming Cal. I used to get called out for it last year and criticized. Now it looks like everyone recognizes his team killed the game. Wake up Anet. You fostered one of the friendliest and most supportive communities in the entire MMO space - but all of that goodwill is squandered. It's sad when people are yelling at Rubi. It's not her fault

Anet should face the fact - a person's meme value from drinking water on a life stream does not equate to their competence as a balance lead. 

[phokus.8934]

5 hours ago, Alsandar.7420 said:

I actually thought I was the only person on the forums blaming Cal. I used to get called out for it last year and criticized. Now it looks like everyone recognizes his team killed the game. Wake up Anet. You fostered one of the friendliest and most supportive communities in the entire MMO space - but all of that goodwill is squandered. It's sad when people are yelling at Rubi. It's not her fault

The ANet game designers come across as short-sighted amateurs.

When they make an announcement about relics and decoupling the six set bonus on runes to relics, they couldn't even tell us anything about legendary rune holders.  And it's taking them something like two weeks to put together an announcement, format it and localize it?  I've been in software development for a very long time and this overtly shows their team doesn't understand the changes they're making.  It's pretty embarrassing and professionally shows me that they don't have a solid team top down.

[Cenzurat.7013]

On 7/13/2023 at 1:28 PM, phokus.8934 said:

The ANet game designers come across as short-sighted amateurs.

When they make an announcement about relics and decoupling the six set bonus on runes to relics, they couldn't even tell us anything about legendary rune holders.  And it's taking them something like two weeks to put together an announcement, format it and localize it?  I've been in software development for a very long time and this overtly shows their team doesn't understand the changes they're making.  It's pretty embarrassing and professionally shows me that they don't have a solid team top down.

I do agree that these guys are not what you call the sharpest tools in the shed but they did fix their screwups faster at least. Mirage will be a thing again by next week, we don't have to wait years with a spec in the gutter anymore. Its just that they dont come up with any good ideas and everything they change is a kin to putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound. 

[Mell.4873]

On 7/7/2023 at 4:53 AM, Better than Jared.4062 said:

Removing alacrity from the chronomancers wells has totally stripped the identity and play style of the class. Also on top of it making it so alacrity is only applied by phantasms not clones also guts the class ability to play a more support based chrono. Please for the sake of the profession make it possible to have alacrity applied through wells again or provide an option so that it can be applied through the wells or the "clones" (not phantasms) but not both at the same time for balance.  Yet again these changes murdered the concept of chrono and their use of wells, it feels terrible to play and now just feel like they are the third rate pick for any class that can apply alacrity. 

But you can shatter your clones for group Alacrity, it also would be redundant to have 3 sources since we overcap currently with no boon duration. 

[SkinnyT.5382]

I'm  a little late to this but I loved having the freedom to use any weapon I wanted. I was trying all the professions so I didn't focus too much on numbers, but on my Mesmer main I was able to come up with 4 different builds that I truly liked to play. I feel that the weapon choices allowed me to make some more aggressive builds. In all it made me want to explore more of the traits that I normally don't use, specially on elite specs. And I didn't even get to try to make any support builds, but from the looks of it I will definitely have to get some more build templates. 
This made me excited for the expansion. I'm now seriously investing in getting legendary equipment so that I can take full advantage of the flexibility.

 

[Zenith.7301]

Mainhand Sword for mesmer will need to generate 2 clones on Illusionary Leap or a halving of the CD in PvE.

If this doesn't happen, every single power mesmer spec will drop mainhand sword for mainhand dagger+greatsword, as the clone generation is so much higher to keep shatters going.

Please consider making Continuum Split a set duration for chronomancer not requiring clones and making the rift immune in PvE so it doesn't automatically expire if some random aoe lands its way.

Power chronomancer is pretty much a dying breed, and honestly with all the nerfs to mirage, the only decent PvE spec mesmer has is virtuoso.

Virtuoso will be hard to dethrone as the dominant mesmer spec because it also fixes the issue with clones despawning on mob death, and you can target switch with illusionary blades but not clones outside axe 3 on mirage.

Consider making clones not despawn on mob death, and for shatters to direct who the clones will shatter on. The mesmer clone mechanic is in serious need of review for PvE and WvW.

On 7/17/2023 at 2:23 AM, Mell.4873 said:

But you can shatter your clones for group Alacrity, it also would be redundant to have 3 sources since we overcap currently with no boon duration. 

The problem with that is the same problem that killed alacrity staff mirage. The clone ramp up requirement and the fact you can't spit out alacrity during intermission phases or when forced off the boss by some mechanic means in realistic scenarios you lose uptime.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Zenith.7301

[Mell.4873]

34 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Mainhand Sword for mesmer will need to generate 2 clones on Illusionary Leap or a halving of the CD in PvE.

If this doesn't happen, every single power mesmer spec will drop mainhand sword for mainhand dagger+greatsword, as the clone generation is so much higher to keep shatters going.

Please consider making Continuum Split a set duration for chronomancer not requiring clones and making the rift immune in PvE so it doesn't automatically expire if some random aoe lands its way.

Power chronomancer is pretty much a dying breed, and honestly with all the nerfs to mirage, the only decent PvE spec mesmer has is virtuoso.

Virtuoso will be hard to dethrone as the dominant mesmer spec because it also fixes the issue with clones despawning on mob death, and you can target switch with illusionary blades but not clones outside axe 3 on mirage.

Consider making clones not despawn on mob death, and for shatters to direct who the clones will shatter on. The mesmer clone mechanic is in serious need of review for PvE and WvW.

Honestly this all seems like a Learn to Play issue.
 

34 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

The problem with that is the same problem that killed alacrity staff mirage. The clone ramp up requirement and the fact you can't spit out alacrity during intermission phases or when forced off the boss by some mechanic means in realistic scenarios you lose uptime.

Isn't it the complete opposite. You need clones alive to provide Alacrity on Staff Mirage. Chonormancers can just shatter to provide Alacrity, so it is infinitely easier.

[Kulvar.1239]

17 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Honestly this all seems like a Learn to Play issue.
 

Isn't it the complete opposite. You need clones alive to provide Alacrity on Staff Mirage. Chonormancers can just shatter to provide Alacrity, so it is infinitely easier.

"Flow of Time" gives Alacrity per clone shattered, "Stretched Time" makes it effect allies.

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

"Flow of Time" gives Alacrity per clone shattered, "Stretched Time" makes it effect allies.

Isn't that what I said? 

[Kulvar.1239]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Isn't that what I said? 

You also need clones to be alive when you shatter with Chronomancer. So it's not the complete opposite.

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

You also need clones to be alive when you shatter with Chronomancer. So it's not the complete opposite.

Clones don't take any damage unless they are targeted by the enemy. This can include some AoE especially anything that is environmental like lava.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Kulvar.1239]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Clones don't take any damage unless they are targeted by the enemy. This can include some AoE especially anything that is environmental like lava.

Still the same thing for Mirage.

[Mell.4873]

47 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

Still the same thing for Mirage.

True