The Tengu Topic: Reasons Why Tengu As A Playable Race Will Happen In GW2's Future & Needs To Happen

[TheeBlackDeath.5692]

The concept and interest of this idea has been long noted among the history of this game with this race originally being considered as one of the playable races early on during Guild Wars 2's development but was eventually scrapped, and for years the fanbase has been begging for this specific race simply due to the impact and untapped potential this race could offer the game among the playerbase as well, and with the newest expansion featuring an important area right next to the walls of the dominion of winds, I wanted to bring attention to this race again and discuss their importance and impact for the future, and also cover why there are no other potential new race options that can even come close or be as impactful as the Tengus here for both lore and gameplay reasons.
After all this is said and done, I think we can definitely say we can expect that Tengus will be playable later down the road, or that Anet doesn't understand it's playerbase and wishes to not capitalize on this lucrative opprotunity for their game if they end up not doing this.

For people wondering why this is another demand for Tengu in the game or just new to the discussion, or don't exactly see why this needs to be implement, even over other races specifically, I plan to list some valid arguments in favor of them and debunk any real problems against them so that we can all come to an understanding here.

Starting off with...
:Impact & History In GW1 & 2:
As many people know, Tengus are one of the notable beastmen races or enemies to come across and have been a fan favorite ever since Guild Wars Prophecies, from Talon Silverwing to the cool-looking Quetzal Tengus, Tengus have a unique and interesting lore and theme to them that make them standout from the others, such as them being inspired from the Tengu from Japanese Mythology, but also have various other elements from real world cultures such as Japan, China, Indonesia and even Mesoamerica on top of the already existing Japanese influence there. Essentially making this race pop out with their flashy eyecatchy appearance, all of which has only made people want to play as them even more, but this interest only grew when GW2 was noted to have playable races, with it being revealed that they had originally been considered to be one of the playable races until they were scrapped for known or unknown means, to which they basically serve no real purpose in the story or world at all despite them seemingly being involved in the Elder Dragon war, with some hostile and non-hostile tengu groups existing outside of the Dominion of Winds to this day. 

:Customization:
It is noted that there already is a massive plethora of variantions among the Tengu NPCs, especially those in Cantha, so much so that their customization options seemingly rival even that of the Charr as well. On top of body customization, their feathers could also be an accessory to their armor to further flesh them out, similar to Norn's tattoos or even Charr's horns as some examples of that. It also must be stated that the customization options and character ideas put foward using the Tengu race alone have the potential to surpass the other races and become the flashiest or coolest looking playable race in the game. Especially when you take into account how much work Anet has already been put into the Tengu models even back in HoT, all to give more variations to the Tengu NPCs to make them all look different, with that only increasing with EoD greatly, which has truly only breathe new life into this concept even further for the future.
To see the pure potential and creativity to be had here, all you need to do is look at the Tengu models we have now and even the ones in GW1 too, but imagine other avian characters or creatures in other series such as Garus from Mass effect, Falco from Star Fox, Darkwing Duck, the Rito from Legend of Zelda, Blathers from Animal Crossing, the Arakkoa from Warcraft, Any Bird Pokemon, the Skirmishers or Kig-Yar from Halo, Walking Phoenix from Joaquin Phoenix, and yes of course... Howard The Duck.

Given their diverse avian appearances taking inspiration from various bird species, similar to how the Charr take some inspiration from various feline species, the customization potential for cosplays or unique looks with Tengu would be super high and cannot be ignored to be sure.

:Body Mesh & Animations:
As it appears by now, Tengu even since release have been noted to have the same body mesh and some of the same animations of Charr apparently, akin to how Human share theirs with Norn and Sylvari, meaning it could quite easy to copy over more of Charr's assets to share with the Tengu easily. Though more than that, the Tengu in GW1 already had pretty cool animations to them and it appears that since HoT and EoD they still do even in Gw2 to some aspect as they seem to have their own unique animations, making them even more unique there too among other non-playable races that don't nearly have as much work put into them compared to the Tengu corrently.

:Tengu & Armor Models:
Similar to the Body Mesh & Animation section, it is quite possible for them to equip certain types of armor easily thanks to said assets being shared from Charr. 

On top of that, I have seen people saying that it'd take too much work for Anet to put in models for the Tengu exactly, given that there's so many armor models, but I don't think these people realize that's secretly what Anet has been doing for awhile now since EoD apparently, with a lot of the Tengu in Cantha having a lot of armor pieces from playable races already. In addition to that, apparently you can view Tengu models with armor for Charr models as well that seems to fit them quite well...

:The Wasted Potential of Tengu in GW2:
Since release of GW2, the Tengu have really played little to no major parts in the story or world of the game for the most part, mainly due to the lack of interest and laziness by Anet to keep them hidden behind the walls of the Dominion of Winds this whole time, where they're only noted to killing anything outside of the walls of the Dominion when Scarlet attacks Lion's Arch, and them being in Cantha with much more variations to them than we honestly expected. Almost like they're teasing us or wasting time they could be using elsewhere if they truly aren't ever going to add them, since there's realistically no point to them adding these looks if they don't do anything with them in the end.

:The Importance of Tengu in GW2:
Continuing on from the "Wasted Potential" section above ^, the Tengu have one of the most requested things in GW2 since release, and there is quite a lot Anet can do with adding them, especially with the new expansion coming out that looks to be DANGEROUSLY CLOSE to the Dominion of Winds. So what happens if their city gets completely destroyed and the Tengu even have their race and culture threatened because of it? What happens if a civil war between the Tengu fires up that results in the destruction of the city or it is completely taken over by a hostile faction? What happens if they become one of the very first victims to a new threat that arises and forces them to work with the other races to survive? These questions and more I'd say are more than capable explanations or excuse for why they would become an allied race to begin with, afterall it's not like we have NEVER seen them work with the Pact or the other races before either. 

One of the major mysteries or plot holes, if not wasted potential would have to be the Dominion of Winds as it has really never played a big part in the story since release, and thus neither have the Tengu, even the likes of the Norn ended up being playable in GW2 and they didn't have as much of an impact among the fans as the Tengu did really, and don't get me started on the Sylvari.

:Why Tengu Over Other Non-Playable Races:
Now this is where some people may disagree and would prefer another race for some reason, but as it seems right now to keep it fully honest as possible, I do not see any other non-playable race within the game that can possibly provide more than what the Tengu can offer to the game as a whole, and I honestly don't see what Anet is supposed to do in this regards to these other races. Keep in mind, Tengu were already considered to be a playable race from the start until they were scrapped, and they're still demanded to this day simply because of how good they'd be overall. 

Going back to a conversation I had once had with someone in regards to Largos in favor of being the next playable race, which I still don't see it to this day... Compared to the Tengu, we literally know little to nothing about the Largos currently and the little that we do know about them is they're really only adapted to water and already don't interact with land-dwellers all that much to begin with, only on rare occasions would you even see one. On top of that, they're basically a  Human reskin with the same mesh and animations already, and there's little to no customization possibilities among them, hell you can't even put back gear pieces on them because of their wing-like fins. So what are you even supposed to do with them really? What is Anet supposed to do with them?

Another idea I've heard before was actually Kodan, while not entirely bad, at least at first, until you ultimately realize there's honestly nothing Anet can possibly do with them or add onto them with, especially in customization. Kodans are literally just reskins of Norn with a furry polar bear cosplay, we never see them with any variation to their appearance besides their armors, and currently they seem to no longer be involved in the Elder Dragon Threat now it's over. What is Anet supposed to do with them too?

I know I'm going to get asked about a few other races in question so I'll run through a couple of them to save time here...

Centaurs=Openly hostile enemy race going back ages of warfare against humans, move faster than the majority of the other races, also cannot wear armor that the
other races can. What good is that option?
Nagas/Kraits=Another openly hostile enemy race with a history of having a grudge against humanity, also can't wear the same gear other races do and serve as a gimmick slaver race, what good option is that?
Skritts=Skaven Trash, can't wear the same armor as the other races, one of the weakest races if not the weakest, also constant enemies and a gimmick race. What good is that option?
Hyleks/Heket=Inconsistent, lacking in potential, also can't wear the same armor as other races and another gimmick race. What good is that option?
Quaggans=Meme/Joke race, also aquatic-based and another gimmick race, can't wear the same armor as other races, and completely useless.
Dwarves=Long Dead Race, turned into stone for all time, can't wear armor or be affected by condi's like poison or bleed, also super rare to come across them if only one at all. Literally unplayable.
Wardens=From GW1 Factions in the Echovald Forest where they are only hostile, also too close and similar to the Sylvari to the point where they look nearly identical.

Tengu having the most potential, customization options, models for their armor, rich history and lore, and their impact and importance in the series answer any other suggestions someone might bring up, even for those I already mentioned above. There's realistically nothing you can do with any of those other races or any other race you can possibly bring up currently that can possibly exceed them as a valid option over the Tengu in any way, least to say Tengu really ARE the best & only option we have for a new playable race given how they can offer us more than the others.

:Why Do I Care About All of This?:
While it would be cool to see them be added as a playable race, I personally have no real attachment or care in this regard, as I'd probably won't bother playing one myself and just stick to my typical standard Human character, but the sole reason I've bring up this topic is for the sake of the fans and reminding everyone that Anet would be wasting potential and time they've already put into this "unplayable" race, and it would honestly be a massive slap in the face to the fans/players and the entire community who have been crying out for their implementation for over a decade now. We quite literally have MOUNTAINS of fan art of Tengus even going back to the GW1 Days, with only more coming out since then, so much so that they rival the amount of fan art of even the Charr, which just goes to show you how beloved they truly are. So while I personally don't care either way if they get added or not, I will look upon Anet's and their eventual decision on this matter in the coming future to see if they truly do know what they're doing or they truly don't, but it's looking like we have an over 75% to 80% chance we can expect them to make this race playable, even more so since the demand for and detail put into them in EoD since I'm sure they've must have been looking at the fanbase, and potential money of course...

-

So that's basically all I have to say on this matter really, and since SOTO is coming out and this idea is still common among GW2, this idea is overdue by now and I figured I'd raise awareness on what's going on here and why they are so important to the game, and to debunk some of the issues regarding this exact topic. If you guys have anything else to add or want to mention some other stuff then feel free to, this is honestly a long time coming afterall and must be stated at long last. I may even make a video discussing this topic even further in-depth in the future if I find the time to do so in my schedule, along with an interest in doing so to begin with of course.

[Randulf.7614]

I’m pretty certain the ship has sailed. There is no sign of SoTo connecting to the Dominion of Winds now we know the maps and the time to do it was Cantha or a Primordus expac.

New races are a lot of work to retroactively fit and rig to existing armour, plus story fits and new voice actors etc Given the huge cut backs, I can’t see how they find the resources to do it unless SoTo breaks a lot financial records.

Don't get me wrong, I do not object to it and have no reason to obstruct others getting a wish they’ve long wanted (this is the third time it’s been raised since SoTo alone), but this isn’t a popularity thing. Anet will know player thoughts by now. Game direction and resources dictate this and so far new races have not aligned. At this stage I fail to see it changing

[b k.1648]

If playable tengu are a realistic possibility in this game, they're probably already in development - ANet have been aware of the demand for years. It'd be a very long-term project, due to needing to accommodate enough customization options to be a viable player race.

It's possible they'd be an expansion-only race, as well, with no access to older content that wasn't written or voiced for them.

[kharmin.7683]

Why hasn't anyone suggested playable Tengu before?

[Tachenon.5270]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Why hasn't anyone suggested playable Tengu before?

Beats  me. Ya know, it reminds me of that whole mounts thing. Like how people kept on clamoring for mounts, on and on and on, no matter how many times the forum chorus chimed in with "Mounts? In this game? Pfft! Dream on, dreamers!" And, of course, we never got them. But I for one still think they'd be cool and fun. Don't you?

[kharmin.7683]

16 minutes ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

Beats  me. Ya know, it reminds me of that whole mounts thing. Like how people kept on clamoring for mounts, on and on and on, no matter how many times the forum chorus chimed in with "Mounts? In this game? Pfft! Dream on, dreamers!" And, of course, we never got them. But I for one still think they'd be cool and fun. Don't you?

I don't believe your argument to be valid (or at least the comparison).  Anet never said no to mounts.  Pretty sure I remember them saying no to additional playable races.

[Jedrik.3109]

1 hour ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

Beats  me. Ya know, it reminds me of that whole mounts thing. Like how people kept on clamoring for mounts, on and on and on, no matter how many times the forum chorus chimed in with "Mounts? In this game? Pfft! Dream on, dreamers!" And, of course, we never got them. But I for one still think they'd be cool and fun. Don't you?

No.

[Farohna.6247]

I once liked the idea of playable Tengu, but then...this isn't a den of iniquity.  No.

[Omega.6801]

No.

[Tachenon.5270]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I don't believe your argument to be valid (or at least the comparison).  Anet never said no to mounts.  Pretty sure I remember them saying no to additional playable races.

I remember them saying no to grind. And look what happened!

/cue forum chorus in three... two... one...

[shwar.8976]

As ever with this topic, I'd much prefer more content that people can use with existing characters. 

This always feels like such a waste of resources. 

[kharmin.7683]

22 minutes ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

I remember them saying no to grind. And look what happened!

/cue forum chorus in three... two... one...

Another false comparison.  A design philosophy and actual coding are two, distinct things that can't really be compared.

[Ashen.2907]

25 minutes ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

I remember them saying no to grind. And look what happened!

/cue forum chorus in three... two... one...

Anet once derided the concept of "dailies" as a form of content. There has been a lot of their original vision left behind. That said, new races are expensive and the current direction seems to be low cost prioritization. I won't be shocked if playable Tengu are added...but I will be less surprised if they are not.

[Zohane.7208]

1 hour ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

I remember them saying no to grind. And look what happened!

/cue forum chorus in three... two... one...

If I remember correctly, Anet never said there would be no grind, only no mandatory grind, and I believe this is still true, you can take part in all game modes and all content without having to grind for gold, armor, weapons, or other.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Zohane.7208
disambiguation

[loonatic.1689]

2 hours ago, Zohane.7208 said:

If I remember correctly, Anet never said there would be no grind, only no mandatory grind, and I believe this is still true, you can take part in all game modes and all content without having to grind for gold, armor, weapons, or other.

tell that to a noob trying to get their first set of viper or ritualist gear. 😭

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

If Anet wanted to add the Tengu they would have done it with the expansion that added the contient they are from.

[Batalix.2873]

If SotO goes full in on a soft reset of GW2, I could see a new race or two added. It would take a lot of investment, but on the whole rigging past gear is not as expensive as recording voice lines (one modder was able to redo ten years of hat models for Hrothgar and Viera in FFXIV).

But it would still be an investment, it likely would not be backwards story compatible unless the VAs were willing to knock out hundreds of pages of past dialogue (that I don't even know is well-preserved). And it would probably pull development resources away from more important things that the game needs.

[Zohane.7208]

1 hour ago, loonatic.1689 said:

tell that to a noob trying to get their first set of viper or ritualist gear. 😭

Note my wording (and Anet's originally): it only states that you can participate in all content and all game modes - nothing was said about being able to get BiS gear without some work. You don't, however, need BiS to play the game...

[Ashen.2907]

Entirely too much supposition, generalization, ignoring of information provided by the only experts on the subject, and casting of aspersions to be taken at face value.

 

That said, there is no harm in asking for a feature. I personally, based on ANet's commentary regarding the cost, and my perception of the current trend in dev resources allocated to the game, think that this is unlikely.

[Freya.9075]

Ah, the Tengu. But there is one issue if they add them as playable character. The chef crafting discipline 👀I fear for all Asura if they start cooking

 

 

[Dyllethia.5786]

@TheeBlackDeath.5692 As someone who's been asking for Tengu since they first announced playable races, and as I planned on making the monthly "Playable Tengu" post since we're now heading away from the Dragon story line into micro story expansions: The sad reality is that with just under 50% of the player base playing Humans, at roughly 419.5m hours played, with the next race being Sylvari at 146.5m (a humanoid race, but plant), followed by Asuran at 142.3m (humanoid, but with the added small and cute feature), then Norn at 136.8m (Human, but big and clunky), with Charr trailing in behind at just 93.3m total hours played. (Numbers according to GW2efficiency).  With the majority of people, when asking for new playable races, want something that is either humanoid (Kodan [humans with bear heads], Largos [Blue humans with wings], Dwarves [Small humans]) or something that's cute (Quaggan and Skritt) says a lot about what the majority of people want: more humans. This was also an issue when Charr were originally announced and they weren't coming with an "Up right" posture that some of the Charr in GW1 had.  People don't want interesting, fantasy, bestial races to play; they just want more of the same differently skinned humans.

 

Was about to say Anet wouldn't put the effort into something that not even 10% of the player population would play; but we have raids, fractals, and strikes, so....  My hope at this point is that they end up bringing "Guild Wars" back into GW2 and we end up with some major Faction vs Faction story line that introduces a few new races at once.  Two bestial races (Tengu and some Merfolk type) and one humanoid race so the base players don't feel left out.  Myself, for one, and a good chunk of people in the community that have popped up through the many "Playable Tengu" threads are of the same mind that we don't need the full story line to be playable (which would cut down on a lot of needed VA work); we just want to play as our favorite land dwelling Avians.  And, again, with the new expansion stories the way they are they could more easily do this.

 

Side note: I do find it odd they would add so many new Tengu models for EoD when the majority of Tengu we saw back in GW1 (In Cantha) were the Sensali and Angchu. We didn't have the Crane or Owl looking Kestrels. There was no need for that unless they have further plans for them.

[Khisanth.2948]

9 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Why hasn't anyone suggested playable Tengu before?

It is strange. Who wouldn't be excited to add something that would engage maybe 15% of players?

16 minutes ago, Vyriis.6258 said:

but we have raids, fractals, and strikes, so.... 

none of those add a recurring cost forever.

new race requires additional cost for every piece of armor, every outfit, every piece of voiced dialog in all future content, maybe weapons and other stuff too. That is a permanent increase to budget requirement or reduction in content at the same cost. The other stuff has a one time cost. If it works you make more. If it doesn't you abandon like they did with raids.

 

[Sobx.1758]

Negligible impact on gameplay potentially consting a ton of work with the backwards armor skin compatibility says it doesn't need to happen at all and your "will happen!" is nothing more than wishful thinking.

[Tachenon.5270]

So, like, all these vast amounts of money, time, and resources they're saving by not adding Tengu -- what are they doing with it? More to the point, what are we getting instead of Tengu (or any other playable race) that will make us more likely to throw money at them? Besides these godawful balance patches, that is...

Relics? Weapon proliferation? What else?

[Dyllethia.5786]

2 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

none of those add a recurring cost forever.

new race requires additional cost for every piece of armor, every outfit, every piece of voiced dialog in all future content, maybe weapons and other stuff too. That is a permanent increase to budget requirement or reduction in content at the same cost. The other stuff has a one time cost. If it works you make more. If it doesn't you abandon like they did with raids.

 

Once in place the only thing that would cost over time is VA.  Wardrobe is a small drop in the bucket when you consider they are wasting their time on adjusting every armor piece just for Charr; why not add a couple more races that share a similar mesh?  On top of that: Raids, Strikes, and Fractals appeal to a small amount of people and there are no returns on them.  In fact you have to keep making them or adding to them to keep them relevant so people keep playing them.  A new race on the other hand would get that small number of players to buy character slots, build slots, equipment slots, etc. There is a return on new races vs no return on adding to current systems. I, for one, will be dropping cash on eight character slots, full bag slots, and all equipment and build tabs for all of them if they gave me Tengu.  Small drop in the bucket, sure; but how many players out there would do the same if not just more character slots for new races.  Those are returns they'd get.  And who knows: some of the people who don't play Charr might play a different non-humanoid race if it appeals more to the animal or fantasy being they like; Not everyone likes steampunk Cat-cows.

 

To add to this as well: Fishing was a system they had to add completely from scratch that has no returns outside of Skiff skins and Fishing Polls if people buy them.  Minor amount of players enjoy fishing in game, but how many of them are buying the skiff skins and poll skins?  Large drop in the bucket in development for minimal financial returns. And before you say "They don't have to keep putting resources into it over time". That begs the question: how many more of these sort of systems do you put in the game that small amounts of players want to participate in with very minimal returns on them vs investing in something that there has literally been a post on every month pretty much since the game dropped showing that there is a good number of players who want to spend money on such a feature?

 

Also: Would almost be better if they hired on more VA's.  This would have a bigger impact on future expansions as a whole for those that want to immerse themselves in the game with the ambient dialogue as we wouldn't have 50 NPCs around the world sounding like a variation of Braham or Taimi.