Removing dodge on hard CC/immob for Mirage has practically killed the class.

[SevlisBavles.3059]

Mirage only has two realistic options for Stability: Mantra of Concentration and the Bountiful Disillusionment trait from the Chaos traitline.

To make Mirage workable in the current meta you practically have to run Signet of Illusions and Blink, which leaves only one free utility slot. Mantra of Concentration is much closer to the bottom of the list of priority skills for this last slot than it is to the top. 

The Chaos traitline is viable for only one type of Mirage build, the Staff bunker Mirage, which vastly underperforms compared to bunker Chronomancer and bunker Virtuoso (even after the latter's nerfs). In both Power- and Condition-based builds, the Chaos traitline sacrifices too much damage and offers too little utility in return. Also, to top it off, it was nerfed as well in the latest patch.

Because of the nature of the Mirage's Ambush attacks and how essential they are to secure kills (and in the case of Mirage Thrust, in order to retain mobility), the fact that they have no realistic access to Stability makes the tradeoff between using dodging to attack or using dodging to evade certain hard CC skills too big. The two dodges do not provide nearly enough dodging/ambush ability to compensate.

Mirages become sitting ducks in fights due to the fact that they can use essential offensive skills less (Ambush skills), putting less pressure on the opponent and giving them more windows for attack, while at the same time when they get hard CC'd/Immobilized they have less of options to evade damage.

Just revert back to one dodge. The system worked way better before and Mirage was already among the bottom of the barrel of PvP spec picks, it's not like it needed to be gutted like this. Mirages were already relatively rare in matches and now you practically never see them anymore. People tried for a while but everyone has given up.

Edited July 6, 2023 by SevlisBavles.3059

[Leonidrex.5649]

the truth is dodging while cced/immob wouldnt be and shouldnt be such a big deal.
but mesmer usually ends up running no cleanse and 1 stunbreak ( blink ) which is used for mobility LOL.
all the cleanses got nerfed, mesmer was the worst class at cleansing even before that happened and now its so bad that the best build can cleanse only with sigil on weapon swap kekW.
And dont get me started on absurd bugs that still plague the class, like holly kitten sword ambush never lands, axe 3 misses, clones and phantasms are idiots, no cleanse, no healing.
its a joke class, you handicap yourself for fun.

[Unbanme.8925]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1864602196?t=2h20m13s footage of mirage beating a sigger cata 1v1 (haters will say it's fake)

[SevlisBavles.3059]

18 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

but mesmer usually ends up running no cleanse and 1 stunbreak ( blink ) which is used for mobility LOL.

This is EXACTLY part of the problem. Blink used as a stunbreak is a complete waste, its main value is to increase overall map presence (in general for the Mesmer, but doubly so for the Mirage since it's closer to the Daredevil role than anything else). By forcing Mirages to rely on Blink as a stunbreak more, you significantly negatively impact the Mirages' function in their teams. Not only in terms of actual combat performance are they gutted, but in terms of potential team contributions as well. In a lot of cases, they become a liability.

 

Just watch some streams from Misha or Helseth when they tried to play Mirage after patch. Even they gave up.

18 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

And dont get me started on absurd bugs that still plague the class, like holly kitten sword ambush never lands, axe 3 misses, clones and phantasms are idiots

You forgot the most important one, Sword 3 activating even though the target is out of range, doing nothing and giving you a cooldown for zero reason. Oh and your entire damage burst is disrupted since you can't use it to port to your opponent, so you can't fire off a ton of skills such as the decloak from Torch 4 as well as the initial burning from Torch 5 with The Pledge trait. 

But apparently Mirage needed to be kitten even more.

Edited July 7, 2023 by SevlisBavles.3059

[Vancho.8750]

9 hours ago, SevlisBavles.3059 said:

This is EXACTLY part of the problem. Blink used as a stunbreak is a complete waste, its main value is to increase overall map presence (in general for the Mesmer, but doubly so for the Mirage since it's closer to the Daredevil role than anything else). By forcing Mirages to rely on Blink as a stunbreak more, you significantly negatively impact the Mirages' function in their teams. Not only in terms of actual combat performance are they gutted, but in terms of potential team contributions as well. In a lot of cases, they become a liability.

 

Just watch some streams from Misha or Helseth when they tried to play Mirage after patch. Even they gave up.

You forgot the most important one, Sword 4 activating even though the target is out of range, doing nothing and giving you a cooldown for zero reason. Oh and your entire damage burst is disrupted since you can't use it to port to your opponent, so you can't fire off a ton of skills such as the decloak from Torch 4 as well as the initial burning from Torch 5 with The Pledge trait. 

But apparently Mirage needed to be kitten even more.

The problem is that Anet never decided what the kitten mesmer and its elites should be and just put some kitten together and every time for some reason all builds end up in bunker maybe condi bunker or  immortal sometimes you get one shot builds, but it is always stupid and in allot of cases gamebreaking. It is funny that all of the elite specs had the exactly the same meta lifecycle, like Anet could have focused the specs on to something like mirage to get some more mobility and inviibility while being less defensive and be Roamer, Chrono to get more support oriented and virtuoso to get the sidenode but the way I see it Anet will kitten up again and they all be condi bunkers somehow.  

[Daniel Handler.4816]

Yall are so disappointing.

[Eddie.9143]

Nah power block mirage slaps currently. Actually having fun.

They should remove not being able to dodge when immobilized tho. 

[Nepster.4275]

On 7/7/2023 at 1:42 AM, Unbanme.8925 said:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1864602196?t=2h20m13s footage of mirage beating a sigger cata 1v1 (haters will say it's fake)

It's not fake, ofc

But, hmmm, how should I say it
Well, the cata could have just stand in one place with permanent reflect and projectile deny and could have easily outheal the shatters

The fact that once somewhere a mesmer beat a cata, doesn't mean that we just found a build that's even more OP than Cata

[Unbanme.8925]

28 minutes ago, Nepster.4275 said:

It's not fake, ofc

But, hmmm, how should I say it
Well, the cata could have just stand in one place with permanent reflect and projectile deny and could have easily outheal the shatters

The fact that once somewhere a mesmer beat a cata, doesn't mean that we just found a build that's even more OP than Cata

i didnt say it's better than cata. Looks like op changed his post a lot but when i posted that it pretty much read as mirage unplayable xd

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

IMO mirages biggest issue ATM is it doesn't do enough damage without infinite horizons. So it's Unfortunate that elusive mind is borderline required for most builds, otherwise youre getting rolled by condis. This is moreso an issue with power builds. 

The inability to dodge while stunned is fine, you just need to play accordingly vs high CC specs or try to avoid them/not engage 1v1. Focus on chaining all of your evades, dazes, blinds, invulns back to back to back. You can still use f skills, jaunt, and phase retreat while stunned, so keep that in mind. 

Back to the low damage topic, there are a few things that can be done to buff mirage. 

1. Riddle of Sand needs a DPS increase. 

2. Desperate Decoy needs a rework to give non pistol condi builds another option in Dueling traitline. Also, bleeds on pistol attacks should be baseline.

3. Master Fencer should provide near permanent if not permanent fury. At the very least it should be 7-8 sec of fury on a 10 sec ICD

4. Sword ambush should do similar power damage from clones. Idk why this skill only does 50 dmg. It should be doing roughly 1k, same as self thrust.

5. Ineptitude should have a slight dmg increase

6. Finally(saved the best for last) SIGNET OF MIDNIGHT SHOULD GRANT +25% MOVEMENT SPEED. PLZ FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ANET DO IT. Remove the expertise for all I care. This change will have 0 impact on Chrono BTW. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by WhoWantsAHug.3186

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Seems like every mirage nerf over the last 5 years has killed the class.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

So in simpler terms, you can't just faceroll and kill everything as it was in the past and you actually need to think while playing? How terrible indeed. Imagine being forced to pick some defensive skills/traits to deal with stuff because you can't just evade everything, what a horrendous design. 🤧

[Kuma.1503]

Am I the only one having fun on mirage after the patch? 

I've been trying a variety of builds on it. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw+drlRwsYXsPmJW+TrvOA-z5YfIRKCyUKEwCwxDAA 

This one for dueling/sidenoding while also being able to decap in a pinch and survive 1vX. Being able to blink and double sword ambush across the map is pretty nice. Condis are a non issue, and I don't find myself getting stunlocked often. Damage is good enough to eventually kill someone.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw2drlRw8YXMMmJW+XpvOA-z5IeIRKCyUKEwCwEDAA

This one because Axe power mirage sounded funny. So I decided to give it a try and liked it. Lots of clone gen. Lots of shattering. Very good for dopamine receptors. I play it as a +1 roamer. 

And  a few others I'm still fiddling around with. Trying to figure out which traits/utilities work the best. 

Gonna give a power block build a try eventually. Never was a huge fan of GS mesmer, but that was only because you HAD to ambush aggressively to kill things, and that was painful with one dodge. I reckon it would feel much better to play with two dodges. 

 

Mind you, I play a LOT of garbage off-meta builds so my perception of what feels good to play can be a bit skewed. But this feels far from unplayable. I didn't play mirage enough before that trying to dodge while stunned/immobed became part of my muscle memory so it feels like playing any other spec. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[iminxi.8514]

2 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Snip. 

 

Mind you, I play a LOT of garbage off-meta builds so my perception of what feels good to play can be a bit skewed. But this feels far from unplayable. I didn't play mirage enough before that trying to dodge while stunned/immobed became part of my muscle memory so it feels like playing any other spec. 

You aren't, when i'm playing off meta builds I do get harassed more often, dampens the fun a bit. 

[Lighter.5631]

13 hours ago, Nepster.4275 said:

It's not fake, ofc

But, hmmm, how should I say it
Well, the cata could have just stand in one place with permanent reflect and projectile deny and could have easily outheal the shatters

The fact that once somewhere a mesmer beat a cata, doesn't mean that we just found a build that's even more OP than Cata

cata can not perma reflect with off hand dagger.

condi cata uses off hand dagger, condi cata performs by stacking a lot of damage reduction %.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 7/7/2023 at 6:34 PM, Vancho.8750 said:

The problem is that Anet never decided what the kitten mesmer and its elites should be and just put some kitten together and every time for some reason all builds end up in bunker maybe condi bunker or  immortal sometimes you get one shot builds, but it is always stupid and in allot of cases gamebreaking. It is funny that all of the elite specs had the exactly the same meta lifecycle, like Anet could have focused the specs on to something like mirage to get some more mobility and inviibility while being less defensive and be Roamer, Chrono to get more support oriented and virtuoso to get the sidenode but the way I see it Anet will kitten up again and they all be condi bunkers somehow.  

the main issue is, and always was lack of sustain and cleanse.
if your class cant heal or cleanse it will always either be a massive cheese with 1shot and stealth, or spam dodge/invulnerabilities as nothing else will function.
but anet doubles down on removal of sustain from mesmer so every mesmer will simply double down on meme 1shot power chrono, because nothing else will kittening work.

[Leonidrex.5649]

10 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Am I the only one having fun on mirage after the patch? 

I've been trying a variety of builds on it. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw+drlRwsYXsPmJW+TrvOA-z5YfIRKCyUKEwCwxDAA 

This one for dueling/sidenoding while also being able to decap in a pinch and survive 1vX. Being able to blink and double sword ambush across the map is pretty nice. Condis are a non issue, and I don't find myself getting stunlocked often. Damage is good enough to eventually kill someone.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw2drlRw8YXMMmJW+XpvOA-z5IeIRKCyUKEwCwEDAA

This one because Axe power mirage sounded funny. So I decided to give it a try and liked it. Lots of clone gen. Lots of shattering. Very good for dopamine receptors. I play it as a +1 roamer. 

And  a few others I'm still fiddling around with. Trying to figure out which traits/utilities work the best. 

Gonna give a power block build a try eventually. Never was a huge fan of GS mesmer, but that was only because you HAD to ambush aggressively to kill things, and that was painful with one dodge. I reckon it would feel much better to play with two dodges. 

 

Mind you, I play a LOT of garbage off-meta builds so my perception of what feels good to play can be a bit skewed. But this feels far from unplayable. I didn't play mirage enough before that trying to dodge while stunned/immobed became part of my muscle memory so it feels like playing any other spec. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I played sword/axe power mirage when PB build got popular, everyone thought im condi but I was berserker, was rolling people left and right as nobody was expecting to take any dmg 😄

[Leonidrex.5649]

12 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

So in simpler terms, you can't just faceroll and kill everything as it was in the past and you actually need to think while playing? How terrible indeed. Imagine being forced to pick some defensive skills/traits to deal with stuff because you can't just evade everything, what a horrendous design. 🤧

cata best defensive traitline, its hidden behind 🤡M🤡 class

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

10 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Am I the only one having fun on mirage after the patch? 

I've been trying a variety of builds on it. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw+drlRwsYXsPmJW+TrvOA-z5YfIRKCyUKEwCwxDAA 

This one for dueling/sidenoding while also being able to decap in a pinch and survive 1vX. Being able to blink and double sword ambush across the map is pretty nice. Condis are a non issue, and I don't find myself getting stunlocked often. Damage is good enough to eventually kill someone.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw2drlRw8YXMMmJW+XpvOA-z5IeIRKCyUKEwCwEDAA

This one because Axe power mirage sounded funny. So I decided to give it a try and liked it. Lots of clone gen. Lots of shattering. Very good for dopamine receptors. I play it as a +1 roamer. 

And  a few others I'm still fiddling around with. Trying to figure out which traits/utilities work the best. 

Gonna give a power block build a try eventually. Never was a huge fan of GS mesmer, but that was only because you HAD to ambush aggressively to kill things, and that was painful with one dodge. I reckon it would feel much better to play with two dodges. 

 

Mind you, I play a LOT of garbage off-meta builds so my perception of what feels good to play can be a bit skewed. But this feels far from unplayable. I didn't play mirage enough before that trying to dodge while stunned/immobed became part of my muscle memory so it feels like playing any other spec. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You should pair pistol with sword. So you can get a bunch of resets via Duelists Discipline 

[Nepster.4275]

5 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

cata can not perma reflect with off hand dagger.

condi cata uses off hand dagger, condi cata performs by stacking a lot of damage reduction %.

It can just rotate in earth, with the magnetic aura and the sphere which destroys projectiles

Ye, you are right about the fact that it cannot do it permanently, it was more of a sarcasm kind of thing, referring to ele's current state on PvP

[Nepster.4275]

11 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Am I the only one having fun on mirage after the patch? 

I've been trying a variety of builds on it. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw+drlRwsYXsPmJW+TrvOA-z5YfIRKCyUKEwCwxDAA 

This one for dueling/sidenoding while also being able to decap in a pinch and survive 1vX. Being able to blink and double sword ambush across the map is pretty nice. Condis are a non issue, and I don't find myself getting stunlocked often. Damage is good enough to eventually kill someone.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABw2drlRw8YXMMmJW+XpvOA-z5IeIRKCyUKEwCwEDAA

This one because Axe power mirage sounded funny. So I decided to give it a try and liked it. Lots of clone gen. Lots of shattering. Very good for dopamine receptors. I play it as a +1 roamer. 

And  a few others I'm still fiddling around with. Trying to figure out which traits/utilities work the best. 

Gonna give a power block build a try eventually. Never was a huge fan of GS mesmer, but that was only because you HAD to ambush aggressively to kill things, and that was painful with one dodge. I reckon it would feel much better to play with two dodges. 

 

Mind you, I play a LOT of garbage off-meta builds so my perception of what feels good to play can be a bit skewed. But this feels far from unplayable. I didn't play mirage enough before that trying to dodge while stunned/immobed became part of my muscle memory so it feels like playing any other spec. 

Looking at both builds, they seem fun for sure

But if we look at that how they would perform in a higher kind of PvP match and not just unranks, we would most likely see that other builds outshine them

Ofc, this is just what I assume from experience

And again, if we just take the fun aspect of them, yes they are fun for sure

But for some ppl, it's more fun to win games, we can actually see this in working...

Go into a PvP match and I guarantee that atleast 2/5 of your team mates gonna play either signet cata or FA

So, from this, we can see that ye, mesmers can have fun playing a fun builds, but in the end... What is it good for?