End game pve is incredibly gatekept and lacks player population

[Linken.6345]

3 minutes ago, Natasjie.9245 said:

Unofrtunately, the game lacks the minimum require tools to allow players to access this content. So now it's all territory of closed static or training groups with a hardcore mindset...they will all say things like "If you're not ready to dedicate 6 hours per week at hour X:Y on monday, hour Z:W on sunday...it means YOU don't really WANT to learn"...like it's normal not having a life to train a boss...

Well to train a boss people need to show up at specific times or it will be starting over all the time and most people dont want to start from zero every time just because a new person decide thats they day they got time.

Also how much do you learn when joining random people each time that might do things differently?

 

[Sobx.1758]

11 minutes ago, Natasjie.9245 said:

Unofrtunately, the game lacks the minimum require tools to allow players to access this content. So now it's all territory of closed static or training groups with a hardcore mindset...they will all say things like "If you're not ready to dedicate 6 hours per week at hour X:Y on monday, hour Z:W on sunday...it means YOU don't really WANT to learn"...like it's normal not having a life to train a boss...

Hi, this information is false, so instead of spreading that, try opening lfg more often and you'll be able to prove yourself wrong.

[Tdub.7628]

On 7/11/2023 at 4:10 PM, Final Attempt.8023 said:

Feels miserable to be new in this game even with the correct gear and build. Almost want to never touch strikes/raids/fractals and just continue pvping and doing WvW until legendary open world armor comes out and makes all end game pve meaningless

The title of the article doesn't really go with this first post....what about player population and gatekeeping are you bringing up.

[vares.8457]

1 hour ago, Natasjie.9245 said:

Unofrtunately, the game lacks the minimum require tools to allow players to access this content. So now it's all territory of closed static or training groups with a hardcore mindset...they will all say things like "If you're not ready to dedicate 6 hours per week at hour X:Y on monday, hour Z:W on sunday...it means YOU don't really WANT to learn"...like it's normal not having a life to train a boss...

Then why don’t you start your own group? Just open LFG or take your guild mates. The content is accessible for everyone.
Why do you expect that others do everything and carry you through the content?

Edited July 17, 2023 by vares.8457

[Maciej.6075]

On 7/11/2023 at 11:22 PM, Final Attempt.8023 said:

then why did you say 

 

Community Resources | Guild Wars 2 | Snow Crows
dude here you got all list of discords you can play whit ^^
Just do minimal amunt of reserch for god sake

[Essence Snow.3194]

On 7/15/2023 at 3:00 PM, vares.8457 said:

We have the emboldened mode. 

Wow...didn't know that ty.  Does it help? Are the weekly designated raids populated more?

[Juan.6124]

Make your own group/squad. This way you bypass gatekeep AND increase the lfg population.

[mikko.4013]

On 7/11/2023 at 11:10 PM, Final Attempt.8023 said:

Feels miserable to be new in this game even with the correct gear and build. Almost want to never touch strikes/raids/fractals and just continue pvping and doing WvW until legendary open world armor comes out and makes all end game pve meaningless

I missed the gate keeping part that you are talking about in the title. I both play NA and EU, never had troubles with LFG, be it strikes or fractals. Can't say much about raids as I am not a raider.

[Renegated.4132]

On 7/11/2023 at 11:10 PM, Final Attempt.8023 said:

Feels miserable to be new in this game even with the correct gear and build. Almost want to never touch strikes/raids/fractals and just continue pvping and doing WvW until legendary open world armor comes out and makes all end game pve meaningless

It's what happens when ANet decides to not fix issues when those spawn. Back when the first 3 raids popped up, the exagerated wave of elitism that flooded the raids was descomunal. Basically almost all commanders thought it was a good idea to ask the players with maybe 2-3 hours of free time a day to do the exact same as people that basically had the rotations trained to a point that they could do them with only muscular memory. And on top of that, people were asking 3LI on week 2 (basically have all the wing 1 taken down)

¿Result? A lot of people said "kitten you" to raids. And that basically scalated to the point of, when raids are kinda fine, there's basically noone to play them.

And the worse part of all it's the fact that, WITH BALLS HUGE AS WATERMELONS Anet said "Well, seems they didn't like the raids, let's do something else" when the reality was that raids went to the kitten the moment they refused to punish the LFG abuse with the excuse of "your squad, your rules", and, IN MY OPINION, i'm sorry but no, there are limits, and ANet refused to see those limits.

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 7/17/2023 at 10:13 PM, vares.8457 said:

Then why don’t you start your own group? Just open LFG or take your guild mates. The content is accessible for everyone.

I don't open groups, because sorting subgroups costs 10 bucks.

Edited July 19, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[vares.8457]

1 hour ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

I don't open groups, because sorting subgroups costs 10 bucks.

Farming the gold to get the tag is really not a big deal. But yeah, maybe some shouldn’t open groups. 

[vares.8457]

2 hours ago, mikko.4013 said:

I missed the gate keeping part that you are talking about in the title. I both play NA and EU, never had troubles with LFG, be it strikes or fractals. Can't say much about raids as I am not a raider.

Because there is no gate keeping, it’s a myth some tell themselves to feel better. 
I never had any issues getting in groups for fractals and strikes, I only raid with my static. 

[Renegated.4132]

13 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

Because there is no gate keeping, it’s a myth some tell themselves to feel better. 
I never had any issues getting in groups for fractals and strikes, I only raid with my static. 

There was an exagerated gatekeep back in the day, not because of the equipment, but because of the players, if pro players made 35K damage with a class, you had to do 35K with that class, not taking in consideration the fact that, as I said, not everyone had 8 hours a day to practice a rotation to the point of getting muscular memory xD

Now unless you're going for the last 3 raids that, as of now, those still offer a certain challenge, the other 4 lost a lot due to the powercreep of the new specs. Also there's the problem where the commanders prefer using "the pro way" on certain bosses rather than doing more safe strats, therefore in most ocasions, that ends up meaning wipe xD 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Renegated.4132

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hi Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil. I've removed some posts.

Regards.

[Leger.3724]

On 7/16/2023 at 11:14 AM, Izzy.2951 said:

It may hurt a lot of people, but this comment is so right and true. Just watch the history of gw2 since before launch to nowadays.

"11 years later Arena Net is still unsure of where to take things because they decided sometime back in 2008-2010 that they did not want monks, a traditional heal/boon class, in their game and since 2014 they've been putting in the same mechanics monks did but making it unnecessarily stupid and non-obvious so they can still claim "we don't have monks and the holy trinity in our game". And then there's the fact the game does literally no teaching of how important boons are in the game. The story doesn't teach it. The open world doesn't teach it. The dungeons don't teach it because the content is dead and nobody does it. The early fractals don't teach it."

"It's a bad combat system all because they didn't want monks in their game. People put in effort into something they think they will enjoy. End game Guild Wars PvE and PvP content is not it. I knew a ton of hard core pvp players in Guild Wars 1 in high ranking guilds. They all moved to League of Legends. Seems to be a lot of people with drive playing that game. The people who enjoyed end game PvE started GW2 and most are gone for FFXIV or no game at all. Again, they don't lack drive. "

"Outside of a tiny vocal group including you - everyone else does end game content in other games, they do pvp content in other games. They actively choose to shut down Guild Wars 2 and start up another game."

 

I think the funniest thing about their decision to remove monks is their logic was literally: "monks cause group content to be gatekept because you are waiting on monks and monks is an unpopular class. Don't have monks? Can't do it". Obviously I don't have numbers but it would be interesting to know the proportion of players who did end game instanced content in Guild Wars 1 (organized pvp, instanced 'raid' pve whether that was FoW, UW, SF, UW or Factions stuff like The Deep, Urgoz Warren) vs the proportion of people doing it in GW2. I suspect it's lower but I don't know. 

[Firebeard.1746]

On 7/11/2023 at 2:10 PM, Final Attempt.8023 said:

Feels miserable to be new in this game even with the correct gear and build. Almost want to never touch strikes/raids/fractals and just continue pvping and doing WvW until legendary open world armor comes out and makes all end game pve meaningless

Fractals aren't bad as long as you have the AR, an appropriate build and are at t4. You basically want to use a solo carry build t2-t3 because usually there's not enough population to support normal roles in those tiers, you just fill and pray. 

Strikes are the same minus the climb and AR reqs. There's some snoody people forming normal strike groups, but I tend to stay away from overly egregious requirements, even if I meet them. 

Raids are weird. It takes a long time to be considered "exp" but the ridiculous KP requirements have been falling in general. There's not many people doing them. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Firebeard.1746

[rotten.9753]

You can imagine there will be even more gatekeeping, as ANet is bent on introducing instakill mechanics if a single player fails it. That doesn't bring a lot of friendliness in players.

[Borked.6824]

On 7/19/2023 at 7:50 AM, DirtyDan.4759 said:

Make your own group/squad. This way you bypass gatekeep AND increase the lfg population.

People keep saying this and imagine that dozens of sheltered folks all of the sudden turn around and say "hmm ya know what?!  I'm gonna start my own groups!!!  Thanks fren!"

Except what they're gonna do is log off and go play something else...perhaps never coming back. 

I'm perfectly capable of building/running groups and to a good caliber, but I literally have never made one in the combined 5 years I've played this game... I herd cats at work all day long, and the last thing I want to do is the same in my hobbies.  The moment I realize I've hit a wall with content until I am forced into becoming a leader against my will is precisely when I put the game down for another 6 months.  That is precisely why GW2 will never flourish the way it should.  Because the community-enabled ignorance loses to opportunity cost every time.

 

[Izzy.2951]

10 hours ago, rotten.9753 said:

You can imagine there will be even more gatekeeping, as ANet is bent on introducing instakill mechanics if a single player fails it. That doesn't bring a lot of friendliness in players.

Yesterday i was doing Deimos (W4) and we stood there for 2 hours and some teamchanges. For people it was too hard to not hit a dark circle that expands killing all the squad, in many tries. I think people should put a bit more effort. Ive seen lots of trolls in this game, like trying to play a raid like if they were killing random mobs in queensdale. Not caring at all for their performance and their team time.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

6 hours ago, Borked.6824 said:

People keep saying this and imagine that dozens of sheltered folks all of the sudden turn around and say "hmm ya know what?!  I'm gonna start my own groups!!!  Thanks fren!"

Except what they're gonna do is log off and go play something else...perhaps never coming back. 

I'm perfectly capable of building/running groups and to a good caliber, but I literally have never made one in the combined 5 years I've played this game... I herd cats at work all day long, and the last thing I want to do is the same in my hobbies.  The moment I realize I've hit a wall with content until I am forced into becoming a leader against my will is precisely when I put the game down for another 6 months.  That is precisely why GW2 will never flourish the way it should.  Because the community-enabled ignorance loses to opportunity cost every time.

 

Don!t want to lead, don!t complain about others' groups, once people understand that this will pretty much be sorted out.

[Juan.6124]

8 hours ago, Borked.6824 said:

People keep saying this and imagine that dozens of sheltered folks all of the sudden turn around and say "hmm ya know what?!  I'm gonna start my own groups!!!  Thanks fren!"

Except what they're gonna do is log off and go play something else...perhaps never coming back. 

I'm perfectly capable of building/running groups and to a good caliber, but I literally have never made one in the combined 5 years I've played this game... I herd cats at work all day long, and the last thing I want to do is the same in my hobbies.  The moment I realize I've hit a wall with content until I am forced into becoming a leader against my will is precisely when I put the game down for another 6 months.  That is precisely why GW2 will never flourish the way it should.  Because the community-enabled ignorance loses to opportunity cost every time.

 

There is no leader in 5 man content. Try "t4, everyone welcome" and then the rest will be guided by destiny.

[Borked.6824]

17 minutes ago, DirtyDan.4759 said:

There is no leader in 5 man content. Try "t4, everyone welcome" and then the rest will be guided by destiny.

To not sound hyperbolic, just think laterally and for the health of the game.  What if despite the unabashed sense you make, what if people just, didn't do the sensible thing?  What if they just decided to disappear?

My overall point is that this is about reality, and how people actually behave in MMOs in 2023, and frankly in the world-at-large.  We can formulate how-tos and manifestos, but is it actually connecting with people?  I ask, because I know it's not connecting with me.  That's where the veteran GW2 shills load up the confused faces.  But again, that's my point.  Sometimes having to be unduly shoved into a position of responsibility, even for 10 minutes, regardless of how easy it seems is enough to get people to nope out and do something else entirely.  There's too much alternative out there to risk alienating large groups of people for as long as this game has.  Most of us simply just want to operate a little more on fate and not in a darwinistic peer experiment at every turn.

[trunks.5249]

i am in the middle of doing heart of thorns for a 2nd time and the maps are full of people doing the meta events

[trunks.5249]

On 7/11/2023 at 8:00 PM, Balsa.3951 said:

he says this bcs its a standard answer from Raiders.

I hit the drums for long time that Raiders with their LI and KP wall killed Raids themselves.

now those people going into strike normal modes and keep asking KP and experienced only on ice golem. 🙂

also i agree i bought my tag but i support it should be free of cost for everyone

 free is a bad idea. the point of a tag is to fallow people that know  what they are doing. you hand them out to everyone more often then not you would be in a group with someone that has no idea whats going on. i had no problem grinding the gold to get mine and guess what with all the grinding i learned whats going on and how things work. i only turn mine on if i am in an event that i know 100% of what and how it works. if i dont i turn it off and join a commander that does. it would be naive to think everyone else would leave theirs off if they dont know how things work

Edited July 22, 2023 by trunks.5249

[mikko.4013]

"End game PvE content" usually means that players will have to show some kind of performance to achieve it.

This content is designed for this very population, who enjoys challenge and performance.

I think we are having a wrong argument here, as :
- "casual" players are not likely to commit to this kind of content ; "I don't have time", "I don't want to lead", "I can't stand performance pressure", "I'm playing to have fun without efforts" ; and we have to respect these expectations
- "End game" players usually expect some minimal level of performance from their teammates ; they too have expectations, they too don't want to spend time doing things they don't want to do (aka, spending time to explain, time to teach, time to fail)... and these are the reasons why these people are using KP (LI, UFE, infusions, etc)

ANet released some end game content, new 100cm, for instance. They know most gw2 players are openworlders, and very few players will complete 100cm and all the achievements from it.
Let's be honest, end game content frightens lots of "casual" players. In NA, we are always meeting the same players in CM fractals, or in CM raids. This is a small communîty. It is also true for EU, to a lesser extent (I play both sides). If the number of "End game" players declines, it is mostly due to the state of mind of gw2's population. Most of us are just enjoying meta events, playing with friends, and messing around Lion's Arch... sometimes T1 fractals, sometimes strikes.
If the number of "End game" players declines, it will be more and more difficult to build squads/parties... and the content will die eventually.

I'm pessimistic about this, "it is what it is", if it has to die, it WILL die, and so be it.
You can't force players to play a content that doesn't satisfy their expectations.
As well as you can't force players to teach (or even carry) newcomers (there are so many sources of knowledge, wikipedia, snowcrows, discretize, youtube's video, etc)

Now, let's talk about gate keeping. I don't think our game suffers from gate keeping. Be it NA or EU, if you really are motivated, you will find training squads/parties/guilds, or no kp LFG.
It is still easy to create a random fractal PUG, and it fills up pretty fast during prime time. Same for easy strikes like the classic IBS "Fast 5" or "Fast 3".
CM fractals and raids require KP, then people can just join training squads/parties and grind their KP. For sure, they will struggle a bit in the beginning, but they will be rewarded by better playing skills, meeting other reliable players, and getting the KP they need to join higher KP players.