Vilin.8056 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, mikko.4013 said: "End game PvE content" usually means that players will have to show some kind of performance to achieve it. This content is designed for this very population, who enjoys challenge and performance. I think we are having a wrong argument here, as : - "casual" players are not likely to commit to this kind of content ; "I don't have time", "I don't want to lead", "I can't stand performance pressure", "I'm playing to have fun without efforts" ; and we have to respect these expectations - "End game" players usually expect some minimal level of performance from their teammates ; they too have expectations, they too don't want to spend time doing things they don't want to do (aka, spending time to explain, time to teach, time to fail)... and these are the reasons why these people are using KP (LI, UFE, infusions, etc) This. Many casual gamers are misled that they've reached end-game status, but in truth that's because they mistook it as a vertical progression game. Simply grinding level, gears and gold does not set a veteran player much apart from a beginner player in terms of progression, therefore their access of end game contents will still suffer from requirement issues. Sadly this game never guided the playerbase about this. Edited July 22, 2023 by Vilin.8056 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikko.4013 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Leger.3724 said: If the raid content, strike content was good. People would be playing it. End of story. But they don't because the community is a tiny, toxic cesspool of undeserved egos Firstly, your statement is that "people don't play raids/strikes because the content is not good"... and then... your statement changes to "people don't play raids/strikes because community is toxic"... really ? Let's be serious, why would anyone play a content if it wasn't any good in some ways ? We are witnessing this exact situation with new 100CM : even seasoned CM players are just avoiding this fractal because they don't find it "good enough" in regards to their expectations (TLDR : clunky mechanics, not enough enjoyment, not enough gold reward). Just check the infamous LFG tool and see for yourself : "OLD CMs" ; "CM (-100)" ; "CM99/98/97" People play what they ENJOY most. My opinion, is that most gw2's players are not interested in end game content, and this may be the main reason why "End game players" are such a small population. 10 hours ago, Leger.3724 said: there is no easy way to find others and the combat mechanics in this game are awful. Please, not that again. Make some small efforts, create your own party, and you WILL find other people to play with you. 10 hours ago, Leger.3724 said: and the combat mechanics in this game are awful. So people play FF14, WoW and even kittening New World. Arena Net can learn lessons here or they can cater to the most overrated, underskilled pve community in modern MMO history and watch the scene shrivel and die. We literally saw this happen in GW1. The most bitter and mediocre pvpers stayed until that bitter end. The good ones left for MOBAs available at the time. It seems that gw2 is not a game you can enjoy. I wish you the best in other games that will fulfill your expectations, be it gameplay or population. Edited July 23, 2023 by mikko.4013 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) The raid/strike scene is inherently small in Gw2 because it is optional content, as opposed to other games where it is required for progression. Value judgements on the relative openness and sociability of this community being related to this is extremely speculative especially when met with more simpler and less subjective explanations. Gold/hour is also always going to be a factor. Fractals also feature increased difficulty relative to general pve and share the same potential social problems as raids/strikes but remain popular because that gold/hour is quite difficult to top. And fractals technically have a higher gear gate via agony resist. I don't think it's really arguable that Gw2's focus is on Open World, and that's what it's famous for. But it doesn't mean other aspects of the game are necessarily failures, irrelevant or "cesspools" for not being on the same level of popularity. Furthermore, a few forum posts from egomaniacs lacking self awareness and the occasional anecdote are really insufficient to pass judgement on the community at large. Especially when we do have substantial anecdotes to the contrary: Edited July 23, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan.6124 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, Leger.3724 said: Nobody is complaining about you forming a group or being picky about who you want in your group, LMAO. Check out the title of this thread. Edited July 23, 2023 by DirtyDan.4759 4 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the krytan assassin.9235 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) There's nothing wrong with asking all teammates to have knowledge/experience about the content you want to do. Sure there needs to be room for new players to practise and learn the fights, but there also needs to be room for more experienced players to play with competent players and to be able to rely on your teammates to actually do the mechanics and do proper dps. I'd say for 99% of the groups that require killproof/ufe/titles etc it is a respons on "casual" players that want to be hardcarried trough the game and are to lazy to invest time into a proper rotation, watch YouTube guides/read tutorials on snowcrows/discretize/hardstuck. If you dont do your homework before joining Endgame content you're just wasting everyone else their time. Often people don't bring a decent amount of dps (and quite alot of the bosses require a certain amount of dps to kill or fase skip), die all the time (and force healers to rez instead of heal/boonsupport), run away from the stack and force other players to move out of the stack, fail mechanics resulting in deaths of other players or complete wipes. In most occasions its much easier to 9 man than to 10 man with 1 incompetent player. If you're new to instanced group content you can either make your own group, look for a training group or a group with low kp or join a guild/static (there are statics/guilds for every xp level out there). In the end the commander is the leader of the group and responsible for the group. If the incompetence of 1 player results in 2-3 wipes you easily lose like 20 min playtime. In a 10 man squad that is a total amount of 3 hrs wasted on a single person. Its the responsibility of the commander to kick players whenever necessary to not waste everyones time and if possible even prevent the situation from happening in the first place. Just put in time & effort to improve, be confident that you can be a valuable asset to the group and be honest to the group about your experience/skill level. If this is the case 95% of the groups will happily add you to their party/squad. Edited July 23, 2023 by the krytan assassin.9235 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy.2951 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) On 7/23/2023 at 12:31 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said: The raid/strike scene is inherently small in Gw2 because it is optional content, as opposed to other games where it is required for progression. I dont think that statetment is really true. Legendary armor is progression, its better than exotic and its also better than ascended in terms of you can change ur stats anytime you want without spending gold on ALL ur characters. So it is progression. And it has always been behind raids. Yeah true also in WvW but this one will take forever, and pvp... lets be honest, if you cant dare to do raids you wont do the pvp one. The problem with raids in this game is that theres no "story mode on raids" so people can experience it and learn a bit and dont be so scared when they go on NM. Raids NM are too hard when you try to get in, after you learn the mechanics and ur with a competent team its okaish. But thats take a lot of time and effort to find people etc. So its why a lot of people dont bother or take ages to get into it. For not talking about the LFG that needs a hard rework. Edited July 24, 2023 by Izzy.2951 1 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said: dont think that statetment is really true. Legendary armor is progression, its better than exotic and its also better than ascended in terms of you can change ur stats anytime you want without spending gold on ALL ur characters. This is relative to other MMOs. If you don't raid in some other games, you literally can't continue to later content. You must raid if you want to play the game. This is why people that play those games get involved in raids more-- their choices are limited. Either they do the raids, pay for a carry or quit. Therefore people will do them, regardless of the quality of the raids themselves. And in Gw2, we don't need to raid at all for legendary armor. It doesn't matter if you think those other methods take too long. It's the fact that they exist at all. Also most stats aren't even useful in any content, and it is more cost efficient to buy some extra templates and make multiple sets of ascended armor. Making legendary armor just to save gold is pretty stupid unless you have a lot of characters if you ask me especially when you factor all the account bound tasks since time is gold too. And of course if you have characters spread out over different weight classes, it becomes even worse. Many people aren't hardcore enough to have many characters, and not to mention many won't even bother with even ascended armor, much less legendary. So even if we were to accept all these perks as true and without cost, I would still say it's optional. All substantial gear progression ends at ascended. Stuff like legendaries is in the same league as agony + stat infusions-- vanity items for the hardcore players that want to min-max the last bit of efficiency that really isn't needed anywhere. 2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said: Yeah true also in WvW but this one will take forever, and pvp... lets be honest, if you cant dare to do raids you wont do the pvp one. That's just plain false. Not wanting to do raids has nothing to do with not wanting to play other game modes. There are plenty of pvpers that don't want to do raids. 2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said: The problem with raids in this game is that theres no "story mode on raids" so people can experience it and learn a bit and dont be so scared when they go on NM. Raids NM are too hard when you try to get in, after you learn the mechanics and ur with a competent team its okaish. But thats take a lot of time and effort to find people etc. So its why a lot of people dont bother or take ages to get into it. Some games do have it where easier versions of the raid mechanics show up in the story. You are probably right that the leap from story/ow to instanced content is a bit steep. This is why I appreciated EoD open world boss fights having some of these mechanics in action but some people just wouldn't care for them. Edited July 24, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdub.7628 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Y'all can just start groups. Don't be so scared. Us commanders can help you. Close this thread, it's going in circles with people who won't step up to the plate and take charge of their own gameplay. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks.5249 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) On 7/23/2023 at 5:23 AM, mikko.4013 said: Please, not that again. Make some small efforts, create your own party, and you WILL find other people to play with you. to be honest i think people might be afraid too. i have been doing a lot of paths in dungeons lately but when i go lfg a lot of the time no one has a party going. so i will start a party its full with in 5 min and a lot of times people will ask if i will do more with them. this is an all day thing because i will do the 8 different runs for 5 gold a few time a day Edited July 25, 2023 by trunks.5249 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilin.8056 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 11 hours ago, trunks.5249 said: to be honest i think people might be afraid too. i have been doing a lot of paths in dungeons lately but when i go lfg a lot of the time no one has a party going. so i will start a party its full with in 5 min and a lot of times people will ask if i will do more with them. this is an all day thing because i will do the 8 different runs for 5 gold a few time a day You mistook lazy for fear. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdub.7628 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 @Vilin.8056@trunks.5249@Final Attempt.8023 True, some people might be afraid or lazy to start a group. Grow out of that mindset. Ask for help instead of staring at the LFG waiting for other players to play your game. The only gatekeeping is you not typing LFM in that Raid tab. Learn the fights at your own pace. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 18 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said: You mistook lazy for fear. Fear of what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaced.7948 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 (edited) that's just how the game is. i would recommend completely ignoring all the content the community has made miserable to play. sweatlords: "you need 15000 abc and 5000 xyz and title x and make a handstand and you better do it within 3 seconds after joining the group or you will be kicked from the group via nuke" *nobody wants to play with said sweatlords and the endgame-community is dying out* sweatlords: *surprised pikachu face* basically, if you haven't played endgame content 24/7 at the time it came out and gathered x amount of whatever pointless thingy it drops or if you have actually used those thingies for anything the content may as well just not exist for you. yes, there are some hippie-go-happy hobo-handout groups that will teach you the encounter but that's still pointless because knowing the encounter is irrelevant if you cannot present a huge pile of killproofs. and no, making a group will not help you since people don't join groups without killproof requirements. those that would have been driven away by this toxic community long ago and don't even bother. just ignore that content and play open world. for stuff like raids there is plenty of other mmos. Edited July 27, 2023 by zaced.7948 3 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 6 hours ago, zaced.7948 said: basically, if you haven't played endgame content 24/7 at the time it came out and gathered x amount of whatever pointless thingy it drops or if you have actually used those thingies for anything the content may as well just not exist for you. yes, there are some hippie-go-happy hobo-handout groups that will teach you the encounter but that's still pointless because knowing the encounter is irrelevant if you cannot present a huge pile of killproofs. I started doing Fractals in February of 2021 and Raids in May of 2021, I've been playing since HoT, I've only joined a squad asking for KP once. If you stop trying to join groups asking for KP and join groups that have no requirement you might realize that what you're writing is totally wrong. 6 hours ago, zaced.7948 said: and no, making a group will not help you since people don't join groups without killproof requirements. those that would have been driven away by this toxic community long ago and don't even bother. That's why we've been seeing the same people complain about it for months that they are barely able to join groups, because they're driven away. 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaced.7948 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: I started doing Fractals in February of 2021 and Raids in May of 2021, I've been playing since HoT, I've only joined a squad asking for KP once. If you stop trying to join groups asking for KP and join groups that have no requirement you might realize that what you're writing is totally wrong. i have been playing again for around a month now and i have seen lfgs for groups without a kp requirement exactly twice. 27 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: That's why we've been seeing the same people complain about it for months that they are barely able to join groups, because they're driven away. don't try to misinterpret this on purpose. people have been driven away from raids and strikes, not gw2 as a whole. the next sentence i wrote, which you have conveniently not quoted expresses exactly that. plenty to do in open world or pvp, i just recommend not bothering with the poison that is the raid/strike community in this game. seriously, you people will die on a hill to defend the most insignificat things about gw2, holy hell ... Edited July 27, 2023 by zaced.7948 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, zaced.7948 said: you people What do you mean 'you people'? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 39 minutes ago, zaced.7948 said: i have been playing again for around a month now and i have seen lfgs for groups without a kp requirement exactly twice. I've seen 3 W1 runs(one at Sab), and a W4 run asking for no KP this morning when I checked LFG, on top of that I've seen 2 XJJ NM runs and a HT NM run asking for no KP in the Strike section. Might wanna open LFG more than twice. 41 minutes ago, zaced.7948 said: don't try to misinterpret this on purpose. people have been driven away from raids and strikes, not gw2 as a whole. the next sentence i wrote, which you have conveniently not quoted expresses exactly that. plenty to do in open world or pvp, i just recommend not bothering with the poison that is the raid/strike community in this game. How did I misintrepret it? You said people are driven away from Raids, yet I see quite a few people whining for months about not being able to join groups asking for KP for months. 42 minutes ago, zaced.7948 said: seriously, you people will die on a hill to defend the most insignificat things about gw2, holy hell ... I'm not here defending anything, I'm just pointing out that your claims are baseless. You go in with some stupid overexaggerated requirement as an example despite it being straight up obvious you just made it up. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaced.7948 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: I've seen 3 W1 runs(one at Sab), and a W4 run asking for no KP this morning when I checked LFG, on top of that I've seen 2 XJJ NM runs and a HT NM run asking for no KP in the Strike section. Might wanna open LFG more than twice. interesting, i just had lfg open for an hour and all i see are 70% cm sellers, one guy looking for a group with "some kp" which nobody has joined for 30 mins now and 2 people recruiting for their guilds. apart from that there were 2 150+ groups, that's it. your demeaning tone is noted but i don't care much for it. 41 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: How did I misintrepret it? You said people are driven away from Raids, yet I see quite a few people whining for months about not being able to join groups asking for KP for months. well, some people don't learn, they will try the same thing over and over again. the numbers in lfg, dedicated discords, etc have gone down massively. every two steps you stumble over some raider crying about how the raid community is dying. 41 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: I'm not here defending anything, I'm just pointing out that your claims are baseless. You go in with some stupid overexaggerated requirement as an example despite it being straight up obvious you just made it up. so you don't understand sarcasm, got it. i just saw 2 kp req 150+ fill in lfg in said last hour. have seen a bunch of 300+ in the last week (although average is around 50-100). also seen some lfgs without reqs in said week, i give you that. the issue is that except for 2 or 3 they just sat there for 30 min or more and never filled up. if that's not indicative of how people have given up on getting into raids, i don't know what to tell you. i bet in your world gravity also goes upwards. Edited July 27, 2023 by zaced.7948 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 2 hours ago, zaced.7948 said: your demeaning tone is noted but i don't care much for it. Don't dish it if you can't take it. Don't start with "you people" and throwing sweatlords around then get mad when someone answers in a tone a bit similiar to yours. 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biziut.3594 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 10 hours ago, zaced.7948 said: that's just how the game is. i would recommend completely ignoring all the content the community has made miserable to play. sweatlords: "you need 15000 abc and 5000 xyz and title x and make a handstand and you better do it within 3 seconds after joining the group or you will be kicked from the group via nuke" *nobody wants to play with said sweatlords and the endgame-community is dying out* sweatlords: *surprised pikachu face* basically, if you haven't played endgame content 24/7 at the time it came out and gathered x amount of whatever pointless thingy it drops or if you have actually used those thingies for anything the content may as well just not exist for you. yes, there are some hippie-go-happy hobo-handout groups that will teach you the encounter but that's still pointless because knowing the encounter is irrelevant if you cannot present a huge pile of killproofs. and no, making a group will not help you since people don't join groups without killproof requirements. those that would have been driven away by this toxic community long ago and don't even bother. just ignore that content and play open world. for stuff like raids there is plenty of other mmos. Just here to say that I started raiding like a year ago, without guild or any cummunity that helps with raiding. I used only LFG tool, while also working 8 hours shift every day. First I acquired few required builds and trained them in fractals. Next I watched some quick videos explaining few encounters. Than I started joining trainings/semi-trainings/no kp runs. Once I finished certain encounter i join few kp variant of it, and leter 10,20,30 kp and so on, until you don't really need to care for you kp anymore. So my personal expirience, belive it or not, proves your whole point wrong. Especially since you do not even have to do it hard way, without any help like I did. You can join various communities and guilds that are dedicated to train players in raiding. Even my friend newbie guild that I joined few months ago, have dedicated some time to train raids, some guildies without even having proper gear, and surprise surprise, they clear W1 - W4 every week and sometimes W7. The only limitations you have, comes from yourself. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Biziut.3594 said: The only limitations you have, comes from yourself. This. You are your own barrier to entry. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, zaced.7948 said: i have been playing again for around a month now and i have seen lfgs for groups without a kp requirement exactly twice. don't try to misinterpret this on purpose. people have been driven away from raids and strikes, not gw2 as a whole. the next sentence i wrote, which you have conveniently not quoted expresses exactly that. plenty to do in open world or pvp, i just recommend not bothering with the poison that is the raid/strike community in this game. seriously, you people will die on a hill to defend the most insignificat things about gw2, holy hell ... "You need 789 kp to even start participating, the whole contenet is gatekept from me by other players!" -not only false because there are groups without requirements, but if you want a squad without requirements and there isn't one then... just make yours to accept everyone."Not like that 😠" Ok, sure. 3 hours ago, zaced.7948 said: the numbers in lfg, dedicated discords, etc have gone down massively. every two steps you stumble over some raider crying about how the raid community is dying. Neither of these match my experience, so I wonder how you came up with these conclusions. Edited July 27, 2023 by Sobx.1758 4 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jianyu.7065 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I don't think I've ever seen anyone selling carries in lfg. I have, however, seen at least one listing in each fractal, strike, and raid at any given time. Nothing is stopping you from posting your own lfg, though, if it really means that much to you. Since your post just says something without a suggested solution, I assume you want it to work as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iminxi.8514 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 wvw is the only content that matters tbh the rest is endless currency farming sims 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalem.8921 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 12 hours ago, demonbeetle.2387 said: wvw is the only content that matters tbh the rest is endless currency farming sims Isnt wvw just a 10min afk check reminder while you do other stuff on another screen? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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