Runes, Relics and You

[Gehenna.3625]

11 hours ago, Acheron.1580 said:

I actually have legendary runes, which isn't relevant to the discussion at all because it still is about how they are implementing a system that I don't think they have considered. My main concern is simply that they haven't considered this and there will be some impending kitten storm after the expansion is launched as everyone comes to realize it. It is as equally important for the player as it is for Anet, should they actually read these forums.

I mean that's pretty much what I've been saying since the beginning, which I assume means you just skimmed it. Again if they remove those runes, who gets left with the tab? Do they just disappear into the ether and nobody gets anything? Do they arbitrarily decide to make them into some other random rune? It doesn't even matter because no matter how they handle it it will affect economy.

Ok once again I AM taking relics into account. Which is the entire point of this, relics being a piece of the runes that are simply separated are WHY runes are being devalued. And it's really REALLY obvious which way rune prices are going to go, it takes the bare minimum of thinking about it to see that when you remove value from something, the price of it goes down. The ONLY way to take relics into the calculation is if they make taking runes apart part of the requirements to make relics, but it won't change the fact at all that runes will inherently have less value. At best that gives a half-assed solution to keeping runes from completely flooding the TP to the point of bottoming out at best, at least for a little while.

Yes there are assumptions but they are what I'd consider reasonable ones with the information we have at hand, with how they have explained their goals in handling runes, and even with basic speculation it doesn't change the fact that when you remove value from anything, it will affect the economy.

I've said my piece. It's clear you and I will not see eye-to-eye on this, so I'm not going to discuss this any further. After all it's futile to discuss this in depth now as I've already explained. I think Tuesday we will get more information about this I've read somewhere. I'll just wait and see what that brings.

[Acheron.1580]

Welp that blog post answered:

Relics are crafted and tradable

1 relic per character over 60, a whopping 3 choices out of 40.

Some relics are locked behind the new expansion

Legendary runes are compensated in like a year+ time

What wasn't answered is still what happens to all runes that share stats? It almost sounds like they plan on keeping all runes in the game, but that goes back to the problem that not all runes cost the same amount for the same stats. Genuinely not surprised by how unprepared they are, and how little work looks to be completed.

[soulknight.9620]

5 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

Welp that blog post answered nothing.

Here ive fixed it for you. 

They basically said: "hey people we heard ur concerns and we will give you info on relics and about compensation for lege runes on 20.07.2023". Today: "Yeap, we take ur 6th piece bonus away! And well guys you will get a compensation, somehow... any time in the future.... maybe.... we will tell you when.... maybe.... well gl with that!"  And so that there is no negativity about this we will close the initial topic!

Edited July 20, 2023 by soulknight.9620

[Acheron.1580]

I really wanted to say it answered nothing too lol but no it did have more information that we didn't have before. It did not however even address the issue that was the main point of this discussion in the first place. I really don't think they have a clue. At this point I wouldn't expect Anet to pour water out of a boot if the instructions were on the heel.

[mezuzel.4987]

12 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

1 relic per character over 60, a whopping 3 choices out of 40.

That's not what I understood from the blog post.

Quote

When the expansion launches, each character of level 60 or above will receive a relic chest to get you started in the new system with a choice of three core relics (exact number subject to change).

It sounds like you get 3 (ish) relics per character above level 60. So if you have two characters, you'd get 6 (ish) relics.

I don't think the "three core relics" refers to the total number of relics available in the choice box.

Edited July 20, 2023 by mezuzel.4987

[Sylvyn.4750]

2 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

What wasn't answered is still what happens to all runes that share stats? It almost sounds like they plan on keeping all runes in the game, but that goes back to the problem that not all runes cost the same amount for the same stats. Genuinely not surprised by how unprepared they are, and how little work looks to be completed.

I'm predicting a sudden drop in market value on the TP for certain Superior Runes...why pay more gold now for an effect that you'll get for free in a month when there is another rune that is cheaper with the same base stats?  Feel bad for those that sunk a bunch of gold into making them to turn a profit, but that's how markets work IRL when circumstances change...

[Acheron.1580]

3 minutes ago, mezuzel.4987 said:

It sounds like you get 3 (ish) relics per character above level 60. So if you have two characters, you'd get 6 (ish) relics.

I don't think the "three core relics" refers to the total number of relics available in the choice box.

 

Oh interesting I read it again and yea it could be 3 per character. That would be passable if you are correct.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Acheron.1580]

3 minutes ago, Sylvyn.4750 said:

I'm predicting a sudden drop in market value on the TP for certain Superior Runes...why pay more gold now for an effect that you'll get for free in a month when there is another rune that is cheaper with the same base stats?  Feel bad for those that sunk a bunch of gold into making them to turn a profit, but that's how markets work IRL when circumstances change...

Pretty much the same conclusion. I feel like bailing on the expensive runes now is the safest bet because I have a hard time believe Anet can find a way to address it.

[babak.3654]

I don't have legendary runes although I was hoping the people who do would see reasonable compensation, but that still seems up in the air. The expectation given to players that legendary items would always be Best in Slot, when legendary runes will lose functionality here, isn't adequately compensated by 'progress' toward a legendary relic in my opinion.

But for those of us with exotic runes - some of which are still relatively expensive to obtain or change out, often specifically because of the 6th piece bonus -that the 6th piece bonus is moved to the relic but that we are only going to receive 3 choices of relic for our lost 6th piece bonuses is concerning. I hope one of them might be "increase strike damage by 5% while your health is above 90%" so that I can keep parity with my existing builds on many of my characters running power gear. I wonder how likely that is.

But more generally, given the stated aim to be "spending our development resources on improving core systems and features of Guild Wars 2", considering all the areas of the game that are crying out for improvements or updates - how the hell did this rune rework come to the top of that list? 

[Acheron.1580]

Anet development team is basically a monkeys paw. People wanted more rune diversity, they came out with the rune/relic system. People wanted alac on heal scourge, alac/quickness options for every class, removing requirement for boon support from utlities, and bam... those last 2 balance patches.

[Zeivu.3615]

"Will there be different rarities of relics?"

We know lv60+ characters are getting them and we know that there are legendary ones that will come out in the future. We know there is going to be at least two tiers. I don't see any point design wise to give them anything less than exotic. (The bonuses technically don't exist below Exotic anyway, and watered down versions don't seem interesting to pursue at lv60)

 

Edit: 

"Will relics be bound to SoTo content or will you be required to have it in order to collect them if they aren't?"

Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure will release with forty core relics and twelve expansion relics. Core relics, which have effects inspired by many of the current rune sets, will be available to all players regardless of expansion ownership.

Some will be SoTO exclusive.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Zeivu.3615

[Bankrotas.8215]

On 7/12/2023 at 7:58 PM, Acheron.1580 said:

Rune of Divinity adds 78 to all stats. Total cost to buy 74 silver

And one exquisite charged quartz embellished gem adds that much, six add 504. So why would I use rune over gems?

[Jijimuge.4675]

1 hour ago, Bankrotas.8215 said:

And one exquisite charged quartz embellished gem adds that much, six add 504. So why would I use rune over gems?

Exquisite Charged Quartz Jewels can only be added to trinkets (amulet, ring, accessory) & back slots.

There is no Exquisite Charged Quartz Embellished Gem in the game AFAIK, so can't replace Divinity Runes (or other equiv) for armour slots

[Bankrotas.8215]

1 hour ago, Jijimuge.4675 said:

Exquisite Charged Quartz Jewels can only be added to trinkets (amulet, ring, accessory) & back slots.

There is no Exquisite Charged Quartz Embellished Gem in the game AFAIK, so can't replace Divinity Runes (or other equiv) for armour slots

You're correct, I guess gems would still be  more, 4 stat gemstone is 52 stats, 3 stat one is 48, it'd be 312 and 288 stats respectively. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Bankrotas.8215
"a lot" was overstatement, removed.

[jamesg.7128]

10 hours ago, Acheron.1580 said:

 

Oh interesting I read it again and yea it could be 3 per character. That would be passable if you are correct.

Have a look at the released photo and read the text . It looks like the free relics each character gets are going to be soulbound. And it specifically says additional relics are not bound and can be traded. 

So if like me you have well over a dozen characters, there's no picking 3 different relics on each character to get the full set of 40. That won't work because they're soulbound, so for each character you'll have to choose carefully and may have to pick the same relics for multiple characters if those are the ones you want.

[Acheron.1580]

7 hours ago, Bankrotas.8215 said:

And one exquisite charged quartz embellished gem adds that much, six add 504. So why would I use rune over gems?

4 hours ago, Bankrotas.8215 said:

You're correct, I guess gems would still be  more, 4 stat gemstone is 52 stats, 3 stat one is 48, it'd be 312 and 288 stats respectively. 

This is all such a weird mess, I'm impressed at how misleading this is in such a tiny sentence lol.

- There is no embellished charged quartz gem, the closest is the charged quartz crystal which actually doesn't give to all stats (missing expertise and concentration), and only at 12 per, which would be 72 vs 78 assuming you didn't care about concentration and expertise at all and weren't factoring it in.

- Gems go in to trinkets, amulets and rings, not armor slots, so don't compete with rune slots.

- Exotics can have upgrade components that aren't infusions, but ascended has infusion slots, and "They have no upgrade slot, but the stats of an ascended-equivalent jewel are added to the base attribute bonuses." (from the wiki), so the jewels and universal upgrades you can put in exotics are basically "poor mans ascended" and wouldn't have relevance when comparing upgrade slots, which in ascended gear can only be runes, and infusions.

 

 

[Bankrotas.8215]

3 hours ago, Acheron.1580 said:

There is no embellished charged quartz gem, the closest is the charged quartz crystal which actually doesn't give to all stats (missing expertise and concentration), and only at 12 per, which would be 72 vs 78 assuming you didn't care about concentration and expertise at all and weren't factoring it in.

That's why I said he's correct. 

 

That said. I did verify before writing second post by putting coral orb into an ascended chest piece. Unlike embellished gemstones, unrefined gemstones can be put into upgrade slots too. Once I'm home I can show proof or you can test it yourself by putting a gemstone like black diamond into ascended armor piece.

 

 

[Jijimuge.4675]

1 hour ago, Bankrotas.8215 said:

That's why I said he's correct. 

 

That said. I did verify before writing second post by putting coral orb into an ascended chest piece. Unlike embellished gemstones, unrefined gemstones can be put into upgrade slots too. Once I'm home I can show proof or you can test it yourself by putting a gemstone like black diamond into ascended armor piece.

 

 

Yes, most unrefined gemstones (ruby orbs, coral orbs, maguuma lillies, chunks of jade and more) can be put into armour slots in that way.  However, neither quartz crystals nor charged quartz crystals can;  the celestial "gems" aren't able to be socketed into armour in the way in which other (non-celestial) gems can.  It's not consistent, but that's how the system works.

 

Edit: Diviner's stats are in a similar boat.  There's no "raw" gem that can be socketed into armour that gives diviner's stats.  The Exquisite Serpentite Jewel can, as with all "jewels", only be socketed into relevant trinkets and back items.  IMO the system can be a little confusing.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Jijimuge.4675

[Bankrotas.8215]

25 minutes ago, Jijimuge.4675 said:

However, neither quartz crystals nor charged quartz crystals can;  the celestial "gems" aren't able to be socketed into armour in the way in which other (non-celestial) gems can.  It's not consistent, but that's how the system works.

I already conceded that point. If you could put embellished gemstones, the stat difference gained would be huge actually.  The 288 and 312 stats are from raw stones, both of which is more than what you would get from rune sets. So in future there might be reason to consider those in theory crafting.

[Astralporing.1957]

52 minutes ago, Bankrotas.8215 said:

I already conceded that point. If you could put embellished gemstones, the stat difference gained would be huge actually.  The 288 and 312 stats are from raw stones, both of which is more than what you would get from rune sets. So in future there might be reason to consider those in theory crafting.

Not really. 72 points from diviners are inconsequential. And while 288/312 stats are respectable, remember that a tier 6 of a normal stat runeset alone gives 125 points to a single stat. Whole Scholar set, for example, adds 175 Power and 225 Ferocity to a total of 400 stats.

[Bankrotas.8215]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

. Whole Scholar set, for example, adds 175 Power and 225 Ferocity to a total of 400 stats.

Aww crap, here I go trusting OP doing proper job only to not verify and go off wild goose chase.

 

If so, there's a case to ask Anet for embellished gemstones to be applicable to upgrade slots actually.

[Acheron.1580]

• Can you explain the note about “choice of three core relics”?
  • When we say "your choice of three relics,” we mean that you’ll get to choose a total of three relics (exact number subject to change, but that’s our current plan) from among the available core relics.
• There are runes that have the same exact stat combinations up to 5 runes and then the 6th rune is different. For example, the runes of the pack, fireworks and surging. Now the rune of the pack actually gives stats (+125 precision) for the 6th rune. But the other two only have the special ability and give no stat bonus. Or does the 25% increase in movement speed count as a stat increase?
  • In cases like this, we’ll be making sure that runes with duplicate 1-5 bonuses have unique 6 slot stats. In this example, 25% movement speed will count as a stat increase and will be seen on a handful of rune 6 pieces.

Well that's sort of an answer.

 

[Dante.1508]

Maybe i'm slow but i still don't understand how it works.. How many Relics will there be all up.. Will there only be the ones listed or will there be a relic for every set.. including legendaries.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Dante.1508