Show your got dang tags cmon people!!

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Although funny enough sometimes when people complain about no tag or no people on tag, we get everyone that has a tag to display their tag so the entire map is filled with them. That actually works better than whatever the heck is going on normally in some cases... this actually does solve the problem in OP.

/wave. Guilty as well, I love throwing the everyone just tag calls out, it is always a great time and kind of shows how the game might play different if there was more visibility. I do think we will need some options under Alliances in the WR for tags within an Alliance, will have to start a brainstorm thread if they don't show we have options for that when the first Alliance test drop in.

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Oh ok, that's probably why I thought they were on this server. Same kitten really though.

lol, don't worry I will try and grab you and Xen and 'Menomize' you both. A guildmate loves trying to try to throw us all way over our heads (various games here) to better increase our challenge, hence why we named the activity. That said, even they ask me what was the point of THAT! 🙂 There are the games within the games.

All that said was fun to play old school with a number of our guilds Sunday morning as we all tried to play outnumbered on a number of maps. But, no one would ever play outnumbered and still try and fight lol.  No, would never happen.... 🙂 

[XenesisII.1540]

30 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

lol, don't worry my friend, its also sometimes due to stubborn kittens. Glad to have you and I can promise to entertain in bad ideas. 

If it involves pulling I'm in. 🍦

[TheGrimm.5624]

29 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

If it involves pulling I'm in. 🍦

Since my toons lack pulls I wish they had, send me 1 or thirty and a good time I will have my friend 🙂 .  Just remember the role Choppas in Warhammer had when they bypassed in. As we said to the other side, "Oh Hai!' :). So any time you want to apply magic, this kittenkitten will be ready to try and give them hugs! Good hunting  my friends!

Edited July 17, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624

[TheGrimm.5624]

Again, back to the topic, I don't mind dropping and/or my group dropping if it means the target goal was achieved. Be that we took a target, we allowed more to get out or we won a bigger fight. I don't like to take others out with us while we roam/havoc or what else, especially if they don't get we did that to allow limited lose to others. Sometimes to win the battle you have to lose the fight. Hence when I roam feel the same. So to server mates, Milea looking at you, be paranoid. I am a stubborn kitten. And is another reason why we might hidden tag to not just lead peeps into really bad ideas we might try since, well the bad idea fairy said what about this and us dumb kittens said, "IN!" 🙂.

So, I have Egg again as a  friend, and I will look forward to hunting with them again as they have heart and will look forward to fighting, but we can agree to disagree that we need both visible and invisible tags for various fights.

[ArchonWing.9480]

13 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Since my toons lack pulls I wish they had, send me 1 or thirty and a good time I will have my friend 🙂 .  Just remember the role Choppas in Warhammer had when they bypassed in. As we said to the other side, "Oh Hai!' :). So any time you want to apply magic, this kittenkitten will be ready to try and give them hugs! Good hunting  my friends!

If you don't have pulls, you can still use knockbacks to get them further away from the safety zone and ideally into the allied group as a follow up to a pull

Edited July 17, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

If you don't have pulls, you can still use knockbacks to get them further away from the safety zone and ideally into the allied group as a follow up to a pull

lol, being an alt-a-holic, I have pulls but the Berserker alt doesn't. But that's ok, in those instances  you just need a Xen. They can pull a tag down to you and a good time can be had by all. As I said already have a guild mate that likes to up the challenge in all games already. So when a good pull leads to a rain of players it was a target rich environment. But I had to lmao when Xen asked, did you make it out? Ex-Choppa, make it out!? What does that mean lol! Was awesome, 10 of 10 and can't wait till we can do it again. 

[Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203]

Funny how you did not list by far the most important reason: making us lose by rally botting.  There are limits to how much you can put up with people that think they are going to beat a 50 man stack by running 10 meters ahead of the tag and casting longbow 2 only to reverse the entire outcome by rallying the opposing downs.  Many gamers have a bad attitude toward teamwork and basic mechanics like stacking.  If rally mechanic did not exist, it would be easier to ignore the faults of randoms.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203 said:

Funny how you did not list by far the most important reason: making us lose by rally botting.  There are limits to how much you can put up with people that think they are going to beat a 50 man stack by running 10 meters ahead of the tag and casting longbow 2 only to reverse the entire outcome by rallying the opposing downs.  Many gamers have a bad attitude toward teamwork and basic mechanics like stacking.  If rally mechanic did not exist, it would be easier to ignore the faults of randoms.

But he can only rally one other player, if there is multiple enemy downs to the point the rangers zerg is about to win and the rangers zerg fail because that ranger rallied an enemy while probably absorbing the enemy backline bomb since the zergs are on opposite sides of said ranger... hm.

I'm not so sure your scenario indicate what you think it does.

[XenesisII.1540]

Question for the hidden tags, does your organized group of 15-20 running with no pugs ever beat guilds like bbc or soul or indo? Just wondering, cause I always see those type of groups feed those boon balls. 🧐☕

[Chaba.5410]

25 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Question for the hidden tags, does your organized group of 15-20 running with no pugs ever beat guilds like bbc or soul or indo? Just wondering, cause I always see those type of groups feed those boon balls. 🧐☕

Let's turn this question around because those groups you named have been known to use invisible tags too.

Do you think those boon balls need more pugs to know where they are so the pugs can pile on even more and grow those balls larger?

Do you think forcing those boon balls to show a tag will make the game more fun?

Edited July 18, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[XenesisII.1540]

2 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Let's turn this question around because those groups you named have been known to use invisible tags too.

Do you think those boon balls need more pugs to know where they are so the pugs can pile on even more and grow those balls larger?

Do you think forcing those boon balls to show a tag will make the game more fun?

Those particular groups don't need to use public tags, they run big enough without it, although indo usually runs with his on anyways. Usually when they do have their tags on for a map blob they tend to chase away enemies instead, well, not until they get fed a couple times before the losers figure it out anyways. So would it make the game more fun? not for the enemy, but certainly for their allies mooching off the free kills. 

I'm just inquiring whether or not the smaller ones ever succeed against those bigger groups while running private and no rally bots around. Most times I see them they're feeding multiple one pushes, and then it goes one of two ways, they leave the map entirely to find something else, or they put up their tag and suddenly advertising in team chat they need the "rally bots". 🤷‍♂️☕

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Question for the hidden tags, does your organized group of 15-20 running with no pugs ever beat guilds like bbc or soul or indo? Just wondering, cause I always see those type of groups feed those boon balls. 🧐☕

I won't specify which one of these, but once we lured them into the western JP, causing a bunch of them to fall to their deaths trying (and failing) to catch us. And there were some knockbacks and hits so that technically was kills. Does that count as a win?

Edited July 18, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203 said:

Funny how you did not list by far the most important reason: making us lose by rally botting.  There are limits to how much you can put up with people that think they are going to beat a 50 man stack by running 10 meters ahead of the tag and casting longbow 2 only to reverse the entire outcome by rallying the opposing downs.  Many gamers have a bad attitude toward teamwork and basic mechanics like stacking.  If rally mechanic did not exist, it would be easier to ignore the faults of randoms.

Your post shows the complexity of the issue. Example: if a tag runs invisible since they want to manage what moves and travels around them via builds they bring in and compositions of their squad but also thinks that everyone else are rallybots (right or wrong)....then I don't think we should imply that running invisible supports teamwork. That's just being passively aggressive. I do agree trying to manage a group's setup is a valid reason for invisible tags though. To Exegg's point though if an invis tags reaches a certain mass they will draw people, that's not the players fault, that's an error made by an invis tag thinking they could move around in a mass and not draw people in. At that tipping point the invis tags starts to add a negative effect in performance for the map and can cause more harm than good.

[Svanhvit.4387]

There is one legit reason for an invis tag I'll mention, mostly for newer players.  I realize it isn't really what the discussion is about with regard to team play across a map.

When a large guild starts up a scheduled event, the commander will often be invisible for the first 5-10 minutes as their own guild members join in and they get their usual comp set up.  Once it looks like that organizational dust has settled, the commander usually then makes their tag at least visible (they may still stay "invitation only" mode).  During the organizational period, the squad may move out and take a nearby camp or tower.  So it may appear the squad is running as invisible.

So again, not really what you are talking about as far as team play, but if newer players are here trying to learn about commanding, this is one squad management technique you may see.  Just because you can't see the commander's tag right away does not necessarily mean they are being completely reclusive.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

The fight guild I play with has a visible tag at least 95% of the time, it's the norm. The few times we don't it's usually because we want to have some decent fights and the opposition is a bit light on the ground (fairly common in AU timezone). In these situations we will already have enough players (mostly guild members) in discord to make a sizeable stack or 20-25. If we run visible then we get another 20+ pub players which makes our zerg far too big for groups to try to oppose us and we end up with everyone just running from us rather than fighting. Which is ultimately more boring - challenge makes most things more interesting and there is no challenge if no one will oppose you.

[Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203]

8 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

But he can only rally one other player, if there is multiple enemy downs to the point the rangers zerg is about to win and the rangers zerg fail because that ranger rallied an enemy while probably absorbing the enemy backline bomb since the zergs are on opposite sides of said ranger... hm.

I'm not so sure your scenario indicate what you think it does.

I'm reminded of you saying that you don't even play this game.  A random with no boons is not absorbing anything.  He's just going from 100 to dead by a sneeze.  That is why we have boons in the first place.  Also, it mainly happens at closer ranges when people stand on a down in zerker because all they care about is 1 bag and instead rally the down they were trying to get a bag from.  Essentially, these players are just health packs that can be run over.

Another problem is that players in squad can't be distinguished from players on voice.  There is no way to know whether they are hearing coaching.  Eventually they must be kicked so that tag is not wasting breath.

3 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Example: if a tag runs invisible since they want to manage what moves and travels around them via builds they bring in and compositions of their squad but also thinks that everyone else are rallybots (right or wrong)....then I don't think we should imply that running invisible supports teamwork.

Players that refuse to join squad and get on voice are against teamwork anyway.  AFAIK it's not difficult to join the guild running private.  I only started playing this mode ~3 months ago and I immediately starting stacking on tags, using coms and eventually formally joined FTL.  I even had a pug com give me gold for staying on tag so much.  So I must ask whether the players complaining about closed tags are the same ones that say "I play however I want".

[Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203]

7 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Question for the hidden tags, does your organized group of 15-20 running with no pugs ever beat guilds like bbc or soul or indo? Just wondering, cause I always see those type of groups feed those boon balls. 🧐☕

I'm not sure what the question means.  Indo runs private during prime time.

[XenesisII.1540]

3 minutes ago, Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203 said:

I'm not sure what the question means.  Indo runs private during prime time.

He goes private in order to get his people on a map, he's typically running 35-40 people.

The question is asking the small organized groups of 15-20, if they ever beat those 3 organized groups that are usually running 30+.

[Chaba.5410]

7 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Those particular groups don't need to use public tags, they run big enough without it, although indo usually runs with his on anyways. Usually when they do have their tags on for a map blob they tend to chase away enemies instead, well, not until they get fed a couple times before the losers figure it out anyways. So would it make the game more fun? not for the enemy, but certainly for their allies mooching off the free kills. 

I'm just inquiring whether or not the smaller ones ever succeed against those bigger groups while running private and no rally bots around. Most times I see them they're feeding multiple one pushes, and then it goes one of two ways, they leave the map entirely to find something else, or they put up their tag and suddenly advertising in team chat they need the "rally bots". 🤷‍♂️☕

So what I'm hearing is that the game give choices and does not force anyone to have public tags, that the game's fun is derived from players being able to chose how they want to play.

- Certain groups don't need public tags.
- No one has fun if they chase away their enemies because moochers following a visible tag contribute to the problem of blobbing.
- Whether smaller groups ever succeed is inconsequential to the topic. They are choosing their fun, testing whether they can take on a bigger group or not, then choose to do something else.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

On 7/13/2023 at 11:54 AM, enkidu.5937 said:

do everyone a favor and stay away from team games

lol  someone else wanting me to play differently

[WeightTrainer.3219]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:48 AM, exeggcuter.8394 said:

This is honestly something ANet should straight up change. Make teammates visible on the map regardless of distance. Other games of this sort of style do that already. (Planetside 2 comes to mind.)

If you're a commander and have a huge zerg, show the tag please! It makes the experience for everyone on your team not in the tag a lot more enjoyable. I've heard various counter-arguments and they are all pretty weak, but I will do my best to address them for the sake of fairness.

1. We're trying to be sneaky. ; Ok sure, I guess that makes a sort of sense, IF your squad is doing portal bombing / stealth pushing enemy squads. Very few squads actually do this, though, and if you're reading this it is unlikely the squad you've been playing does it regularly enough to justify it.

2. We're concerned about spies. ; Also arguably valid but a spy can just as easily run along side you or better yet be in voice chat without your knowledge. Also, as someone who's usually the default visible pug tag I can rest assured that this is rarely ever an actual problem. Far more often it's just getting spotted by scouts, and hiding the tag does nothing there.

3. We're doing stuff as friends and don't want random plebians loitering around us. ; Not a great reason IMO. First, I'm mostly addressing squads of like 25+ people with this post. There's no way you have 25 close friends. I don't mean that as insult, I mean that as a limitation of our brains. Secondly, though, it is helpful to treat those on your team as people worth playing with. You might get more people wanting to join your guild this way, instead of transferring off the server like I saw today.

4. Similar to #3, we're doing guild missions. ; Not a real reason, full stop. It will make zero difference whether non-guild people help you complete the mission. If anything showing the tag would make it easier.

5. We want to get better / prove ourselves are good / bragging rights / etc. ; I will begrudgingly admit this is actually a good reason, in a selfish way. Just be mindful that it makes the experience for the rest of your own team less enjoyable as a result.

6. It's bugged ; This one is actually a good reason lol. I've seen it before and had it happen to me and it's impossible to know it's happening unless someone else tells you. I do not know how to fix it other than reforming the squad and hoping for the best. Another thing ANet needs to fix really.

I think there are other reasons I've heard but I can't remember them. If anyone is able to post an actually good reason I'm willing to change my mind on this.

TLDR : show tag, more fun 4 non-squad teammates.

I think the biggest reason guilds/groups hide their tags is so pugs won't follow them. The idea being those pugs are going to get steamrolled and rally enemy players. I see this happen on my team even when tags are open to public. People don't want to join but they also are the first to die and then our group has to reset and hit an enemy guild or 2 all over again. It is incredibly frustrating.

[Thron Stal.9367]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:48 PM, exeggcuter.8394 said:

This is honestly something ANet should straight up change. Make teammates visible on the map regardless of distance. Other games of this sort of style do that already. (Planetside 2 comes to mind.)

If you're a commander and have a huge zerg, show the tag please! It makes the experience for everyone on your team not in the tag a lot more enjoyable. I've heard various counter-arguments and they are all pretty weak, but I will do my best to address them for the sake of fairness.

1. We're trying to be sneaky. ; Ok sure, I guess that makes a sort of sense, IF your squad is doing portal bombing / stealth pushing enemy squads. Very few squads actually do this, though, and if you're reading this it is unlikely the squad you've been playing does it regularly enough to justify it.

2. We're concerned about spies. ; Also arguably valid but a spy can just as easily run along side you or better yet be in voice chat without your knowledge. Also, as someone who's usually the default visible pug tag I can rest assured that this is rarely ever an actual problem. Far more often it's just getting spotted by scouts, and hiding the tag does nothing there.

3. We're doing stuff as friends and don't want random plebians loitering around us. ; Not a great reason IMO. First, I'm mostly addressing squads of like 25+ people with this post. There's no way you have 25 close friends. I don't mean that as insult, I mean that as a limitation of our brains. Secondly, though, it is helpful to treat those on your team as people worth playing with. You might get more people wanting to join your guild this way, instead of transferring off the server like I saw today.

4. Similar to #3, we're doing guild missions. ; Not a real reason, full stop. It will make zero difference whether non-guild people help you complete the mission. If anything showing the tag would make it easier.

5. We want to get better / prove ourselves are good / bragging rights / etc. ; I will begrudgingly admit this is actually a good reason, in a selfish way. Just be mindful that it makes the experience for the rest of your own team less enjoyable as a result.

6. It's bugged ; This one is actually a good reason lol. I've seen it before and had it happen to me and it's impossible to know it's happening unless someone else tells you. I do not know how to fix it other than reforming the squad and hoping for the best. Another thing ANet needs to fix really.

I think there are other reasons I've heard but I can't remember them. If anyone is able to post an actually good reason I'm willing to change my mind on this.

TLDR : show tag, more fun 4 non-squad teammates.

I know some hide their tags because HUGE zergs with special skills were they don't die. (yes, others die no problem, its not us) chase you down all over all the maps ... regardless of your size of 20+ vice their 60+. 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I sometimes run public, sometimes private.  Typically, the times I'm going private are while running havoc with small numbers of guild mates; or when the guild is likely to have a bigger turnout and we are not yet at the point where we qualify as in any way organized.  I'll run public when we have more.

I don't feel bad about running private.  I can go days without ever seeing another tag during our normal 1.5-2 hour WvW run.  Finally, I often see non-squad players running along, having found us despite the lack of a visible tag, because too often we are the only group of more than 2-3 on the map.  Those people are of course welcome to join and will get invited if I have time, and/or if the guild leader's wife is on (she invites everyone and anyone, whenever she is with us).

Given my experience, I'd say that people can and do generally find our group if they look.  So, I wonder if what the OP is taking issue with is not running  a non-visible tag, but rather not including/inviting people when they show up.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by IndigoSundown.5419
Grr posted early due to fat-fingers.

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203 said:

Players that refuse to join squad and get on voice are against teamwork anyway. 

Mind you I am trying to cover both sides while supporting invis tags. So to expand the context of the discussion I ask questions and make statements. I agree players can just try and click on names to see if there are options to join squad. But in general how would a player on the map have an indication that there was a squad to join? To Exegg's point it would seem like a dead map on first entry. Now as far as on voice. Again that's complicated. Some tags can't handle non-voice people. Myself have seen non-voice comms likewise smash voice comms. Your mileage will vary. In the same line of thought have been with both awesome voice comms and voice comms that are just more acting like a football commentator, "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!". Which left most of us with, wot!? What are we doing?

8 hours ago, Lorendyl Azoradaelas.5203 said:

AFAIK it's not difficult to join the guild running private. 

Again I think your mileage will vary here based on guild server and a number of factors so not saying right, but can't say wrong either. So if we take this thread as way to share players that may just be reading for insight, doesn't hurt to try. Agree there