What do you think about SPB?

[Aaron.1294]

@Lighter.5631sure but saying hammer spellbreaker is pure trash right now is just wrong.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Aaron.1294

[Myror.7521]

@Aaron.1294 hmm i would say its not too Bad but also not fun to Play at least to me ^^ but also get countered by like 90% of side node Builds ^^

Just the builds that i See mostly Play in ranked and stuff is. 

1. Catalyst: Just endless stability and dmg reduction. Simply no way to realy Counter it.

2. Mirage: Most mirages are bad in this Game. But once they know how to Play Well no chance at all thx to Block/evades/stealth/teleport/blind

3. Bladesworn: that kitten simply outheals all your dmg. If your good you could at least hold it on the node but nothing realy more

4. Condi Berserker: this is at least one Match ub that you might be able to win with a mix of luck and Skill. But yea you need to CC him First and with Stabi and Blocks plus blinds its not too easy

5. Druid: just one and maybe only matchub that you could at least somehow win ..... If he get no Idea how to use the smokefield of his pet

Edited July 20, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Aaron.1294]

@Myror.7521Because all of these builds are mostly broken and aren't very interactive.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

16 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Lighter.5631Have you played recently? Like if anything hammer spellbreaker is still decent, not "the most broken thing in the game" but saying it's so terrible is just not true. Lots of ppl are playing it. It's just meta is dominated by ridiculous damage (bugged dmg btw) builds. 

No its not decent, SPB is extremely strong right now. Hammer, GS, dagger are all great options and you will find success using any combination of these. 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by WhoWantsAHug.3186

[Endo.1652]

Who are the good warrior mains here?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

i get slightly annoyed when i see zerker icon, annoyed for bsw icon

This was the opposite before the trait adjustments for berserker this year.

6 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Myror.7521Hammerspb is the only existent build for spb dat has something to offer. Now I agree about dagger/shield gs being bad but hammer still is good. Not broken but good.

correct if you are in a teamfight. That being said:

6 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Lighter.5631Have you played recently? Like if anything hammer spellbreaker is still decent, not "the most broken thing in the game" but saying it's so terrible is just not true. Lots of ppl are playing it. It's just meta is dominated by ridiculous damage (bugged dmg btw) builds. 

I no longer consider this an excuse. "It's not bad, the meta is just dominated by high damage/high tank/high x" builds has been a justification for underperformance for warrior specs for as long as I can remember. If the meta is dominated by ridiculous damage builds, and class X is not ridiculous damage (or an appropriate answer to ridiculous damage), class X is bad. People can play and succeed with it in spite of that, but the meta largely dictates what is bad or good because it is what you will see most often.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

16 minutes ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

Who are the good warrior mains here?

@Lighter.5631 knows what he's doing. I can attest to that personally, and I get why he thinks spellbreaker is bad. I don't agree with him across the board on that, but I can see the angle of his argument.

@gmmg.9210 also knows what he's doing, and has not been playing spellbreaker frequently as of late (from my light observation, could be wrong on that.). Maybe he has an opinion on this.

@CalmTheStorm.2364 is also a knower, on the off-tank side.

 

There's a few others but idk if they are mains / I have yet to fight them in game/I havent put their in game characters to a forum name/I have a 5 shoutout per post policy. 

@Multicolorhipster.9751 is probably a hammerbreaker main and can use hammer well.

@Avatar.3568 I have no idea, but can appropriately swing a greatsword.

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

15 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Lighter.5631 knows what he's doing. I can attest to that personally, and I get why he thinks spellbreaker is bad. I don't agree with him across the board on that, but I can see the angle of his argument.

@gmmg.9210 also knows what he's doing, and has not been playing spellbreaker frequently as of late (from my light observation, could be wrong on that.). Maybe he has an opinion on this.

@CalmTheStorm.2364 is also a knower, on the off-tank side.

 

There's a few others but idk if they are mains / I have yet to fight them in game/I havent put their in game characters to a forum name/I have a 5 shoutout per post policy. 

@Multicolorhipster.9751 is probably a hammerbreaker main and can use hammer well.

@Avatar.3568 I have no idea, but can appropriately swing a greatsword.

 

 

 

Multi is a main. Outside of preferences towards various especs and weapon choices, all the warriors commenting so far know what they are talking about.

[Hotride.2187]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:38 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

It is not my fault that SPB mains are just following the herd, and thinking its only use is to 1v1 side node.. completely missing out on its far stronger potential (the avg SPB also has a fetish with being a 1v1 hero.. so they can't even get out of that mindset). When I am on a team with an SPB who clearly knows the value he brings to skirmishes, the kills are so much easier, stunned targets can't fight back.. and take full nuke, which changes the dynamics massively.

Imagine thinking you know the value of spb in a conquest match, better than the players who main it. Good that you had 2 games where a spb made a difference in a team fight, then wrote 3 pages of posts based on those 2 games. Try playing it in p2 games, see what your team thinks about you while you bring it in a team fight. You will get targeted every game by your own team, will prolly get called a bot too.

[Myror.7521]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 *sniff* i tryied my best...... and you noob callung me ..... how dare you...... I though we where Friends ......... . 9. Years for nothingness *sniff*. Please gimme drama

 

EDIT: xD. Can't take myself srs anymore lol

Edited July 20, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 *sniff* i tryied my best...... and you noob callung me ..... how dare you...... I though we where Friends ......... . 9. Years for nothingness *sniff*. Please gimme drama

 

EDIT: xD. Can't take myself srs anymore lol

I said 5 callout post limit!

Also youre like a whole server away D:<

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I love it when the warrior subforum feels  drama shenanigans bleed over into the other subforums. Brings a smile to my face.

[Zekent.3652]

7 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Don't listen to this guy. SPB is extremely strong right now. Hammer, GS, dagger are all great options and you will find success using any combination of these. 

 

You're probably a mesmer main according to your pfp, just play condi staff mirage if you're having a really bad time against spellbreakers.

They will barely touch you while you're condi bombing them.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Zizekent.2398

[magickthief.6492]

Spellbreaker is balanced.  Topic closed.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

You're probably a mesmer main according to your pfp, just play condi staff mirage if you're having a really bad time against spellbreakers.

They will barely touch you while you're condi bombing them.

Bruh I'm not complaining about SPB, just was replying to guy saying that he doesn't want to play SPB because it sucks. I'm telling him it's good. Are you right in the head? I play SPB and I don't want it nerfed holy kitten read please

[Flowki.7194]

It still baffles me how people can't seperate the concept of toxic mechanics from effectiveness. Or in short, ''It isn't meta so its fine''.

 

Did it ever cross anybodys minds that core concepts that are toxic is likely what is holding them back from being buffed into more general viable use? or why they got nerfed into the ground? But this is the product of a playerbase who continually defend casual mechanics and easy specs as being ''hard to play''. The general skill floor across most specs is a basement, which in tern limits their upper use (like power necro). SPB is in the same boat as DH, toxic mechanics that will likely not (and should not) see any substantial buffs.. simply for what it can achieve with minimal effort.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Sereath.1428]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

It still baffles me how people can't seperate the concept of toxic mechanics from effectiveness. Or in short, ''It isn't meta so its fine''.

 

Did it ever cross anybodys minds that core concepts that are toxic is likely what is holding them back from being buffed into more general viable use? or why they got nerfed into the ground? But this is the product of a playerbase who continually defend casual mechanics and easy specs as being ''hard to play''. The general skill floor across most specs is a basement, which in tern limits their upper use (like power necro). SPB is in the same boat as DH, toxic mechanics that will likely not (and should not) see any substantial buffs.. simply for what it can achieve with minimal effort.

 

 

Preach

For instance, players here love to correlate "lAck of MAT rEprensAtion" with something being weak-underpowered-not toxic.
"It wasnt played in the MAT bruh, therefore my build is kitten./therefore my build is not toxic nor OP for ranked."
Just like you mentioned with SPB and DH, FC is for sure one of the most degenerate mechanics and while Ive never had much problems with DH I still find their gameplay incredibly disrupting and non interactive.

And don't even get me started on stealth, which is by far the worst stealth implementation I've ever seen in an MMO.
What these people never understand is that their specs would actually get huge buffs and reworks if they were to delete current stealth (or any other noninteractive mechanic).

So anything with a constant stream of: CC aka you will stop playing the game now , things like FC or Shock Aura aka stop attacking/playing the game or get CCed,
stealth aka stop playing and start guessing.

And yup, low effort, low skill floor builds should never have good potential.
The key to good balance is actually very simple. Risk/Reward:
Low Risk/Low Reward
High Risk/High Reward

And just accept that it is 100% impossible to balance everything perfectly, or more specifically to make every build equally competitive.

This however, does require you to understand how games work, how to design them and to actually engage with them. So it makes sense how almost no one is good at identifying the problem with a class and also coming up with a good solution.

Edited July 21, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 Well the thing is. Yes CC Spam by warr is a toxic gamemechanic. I would lie if this is not true. BUT CC's are right now the only real way for a power Warrior to handle other classes. Cause of some reasons. 

1. Warrior is complete melee Fighter (aside of longbow and maybe some meme rifle builds)

2. Warriors actuall Burst skills (its btw Main class mechanic) are complete nerfed into nothingness right now. This means you need to Spam CCs to get at least something done in terms of enemy pressure.

3. Keep it or leave it. Warrior is nowdays not the fastest class around. I would even go and say its one of the slowest rn. Now keep in mind that other classes even gain Teleports blinds and stealth as side abilitys.

 

Say it in short. The reason why you Play it on CC Spam actually is simply cause there is no other way to Play it and make trouble to enemys (aside of Bladesworn and Condi Berserker) cause the class simply lacks off dmg and movement speed (i do not mean weapon skills here just running) while been a Full melee class.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 Well the thing is. Yes CC Spam by warr is a toxic gamemechanic. I would lie if this is not true. BUT CC's are right now the only real way for a power Warrior to handle other classes. Cause of some reasons. 

1. Warrior is complete melee Fighter (aside of longbow and maybe some meme rifle builds)

2. Warriors actuall Burst skills (its btw Main class mechanic) are complete nerfed into nothingness right now. This means you need to Spam CCs to get at least something done in terms of enemy pressure.

3. Keep it or leave it. Warrior is nowdays not the fastest class around. I would even go and say its one of the slowest rn. Now keep in mind that other classes even gain Teleports blinds and stealth as side abilitys.

 

Say it in short. The reason why you Play it on CC Spam actually is simply cause there is no other way to Play it and make trouble to enemys (aside of Bladesworn and Condi Berserker) cause the class simply lacks off dmg and movement speed (i do not mean weapon skills here just running) while been a Full melee class.

Yes but look at warriors core mechanics. 4 second weapons swaps, only 18 or so abilitys, and many abilitys that do key vital things (like dmg+sustain) for 1 button. How can you possible buff a class that is built on such simple core mechanics? The stun breaks are so usefull, they double up as condi+power mitigation, just as one example. The downed second life (forget name) is an absolute nightmare to avoid in a fair few situations, so imagine SPB got a dps or mobility buff, ontop of the affirmentioned. Necro is the same, its mitigation is so forgiving, its damage is so easy to apply, and its downed abilities are very strong. 

 

Im not amzing at the game, but the effort to reward of warrior (and a fair few specs in the game) IMO is too much, despite its lower performance over other specs. For example, power cata gets a lot of heat, and everybody wants to pretend its easy. If you are plat and understand every class and ability in the game, it is very effective (which people in this game seem to continually confuse with difficulty). If you are not at that level then you get smoked.. like DD thief (although DD thief has much more lower skill friednly escapes), becuase many of cata abilitys are situational and have to be used at the right time for the right counter. A warrior full counter for example, it doens't matter, just get hit. Stuns and boon rips.. while they are limited to range are also not hard, you press a button within range, on any class.. and then all of the emphesis is now on them to dodge/block it x3 or 4. Warrior has range issues, which is a limitation, but once in range, it couldn't be more casual on a mechanics level of what you need to do (this is dodging aside). Necro is the same, most of its abilitys can just be poped in any given situation. Rev support is not like this, it has a lot more of the situational ability uses that are also found on ele.. and it really raises the classes skill floors and opens up a lot more room for punishment through mistakes. How many times do you see a power necro dive head first into a 2v1, completely fk it up.. then just reap, and then just wurm out when it completely goes south. Its mechancis like these (mesmer also has alot of this low risk high reward bs thanks to target drop spam) that make pvp feel very toxic.    

Edited July 21, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 Well yea i ever said warr is easy to Play. But the difference is still. Warrs mechanics are more than easy to evade since all its mechanics relies on hitting the burst skills. And this burst skills got pretty high Animations. In this case I would even say its at least in high lvl Play Harder than most classes.

[Flowki.7194]

42 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 Well yea i ever said warr is easy to Play. But the difference is still. Warrs mechanics are more than easy to evade since all its mechanics relies on hitting the burst skills. And this burst skills got pretty high Animations. In this case I would even say its at least in high lvl Play Harder than most classes.

But effectiveness is again not the same as difficulty. Imagine warrior in the hands of a plat player, was given a mobility buff and reduced animations. Can you justtify how strong it would be? (not as bad as condi cata but still).. Id rather fight condi cata than a buffed SPB, as any class.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Can you justtify how strong it would be? 

Yes. Corrupt the stability and laugh at them.

[Flowki.7194]

10 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yes. Corrupt the stability and laugh at them.

You can apply that to any class with stability, which is pretty much all, try again?

Edited July 21, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

You can apply that to any class with stability, which is pretty much all, try again?

You misunderstand. Warrior doesn't vomit a multitude of boons. Corrupting a spellbreaker's stability is much easier than other professions. There is a natural counter to Spellbreaker there.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You misunderstand. Warrior doesn't vomit a multitude of boons. Corrupting a spellbreaker's stability is much easier than other professions. There is a natural counter to Spellbreaker there.

Classes that have more boons litterally suffer more to curruption, and spellbreaker doesn't deserve boons with its current CC potential anyway. Also, SPB has boon rip. To me its like support, you sacrafice largely in one area, and gain in another, but the avg SPB seems to want it all..

Edited July 21, 2023 by Flowki.7194