What is wrong with GW2 story telling?

[RagiNagi.1802]

Hi,

I have recently gotten back to game. And just finished EOD. And to kinda get back in the lore, started playing trough LS.

And man I have to tell you. The story/lore while interesting is delivered in such an odd way. Im now doing that Scarlett Instance called - Connecting the Pieces. Im in the bar, and have to inspect 10 items and give my thoughts on them.. man wth.. or that piece in EOD where you have to eat Sushi or whatever, or that odd quest where you travel around in a skiff checking for explosives under bridge, or where you had to talk with everyone at the end of EOD for achievement and to get some more trivia tid-bits. The story it self is fine i guess. But the delivery completely kills it. I end up watching YT videos on side and just clicking trough the dialogue.

I feel like it was not like that for the base game, or HOT. What happened? The endless unskippable dialogue options and voice acting in game is my guess. I just cant be bothered to go trough that, lol.

I have very little hope for the expansion. Good that GW2's gameplay loop is quite engaging.

[Kalavier.1097]

So you just dislike any slower, not action packed story instances?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i don't understand this mentality. usually when people buy video games, they're happy to have filler content because every extra hour of gameplay is more bang for your buck, but when it comes to mmos which already offer hundreds of hours of gameplay per expansion, any more is too much.

 

its like so many players these days have never played an rpg of any kind before, or somehow want an mmo to not be an rpg.

Edited July 22, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[AreohGee.7592]

5 hours ago, RagiNagi.1802 said:

Hi,

I have recently gotten back to game. And just finished EOD. And to kinda get back in the lore, started playing trough LS.

And man I have to tell you. The story/lore while interesting is delivered in such an odd way. Im now doing that Scarlett Instance called - Connecting the Pieces. Im in the bar, and have to inspect 10 items and give my thoughts on them.. man wth.. or that piece in EOD where you have to eat Sushi or whatever, or that odd quest where you travel around in a skiff checking for explosives under bridge, or where you had to talk with everyone at the end of EOD for achievement and to get some more trivia tid-bits. The story it self is fine i guess. But the delivery completely kills it. I end up watching YT videos on side and just clicking trough the dialogue.

I feel like it was not like that for the base game, or HOT. What happened? The endless unskippable dialogue options and voice acting in game is my guess. I just cant be bothered to go trough that, lol.

I have very little hope for the expansion. Good that GW2's gameplay loop is quite engaging.

It feels like I have USA intruding on my beliefs now. to be honest. I do not like the dialog at all. 

[mandala.8507]

3 hours ago, AreohGee.7592 said:

It feels like I have USA intruding on my beliefs now. to be honest. I do not like the dialog at all. 

Pray tell, what beliefs do you feel are being intruded upon?

[RagiNagi.1802]

15 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

So you just dislike any slower, not action packed story instances?

No, I just don't enjoy standing around and listening to dialogue. I have nothing against D&D type of dialogue that you can read at your own pace. Or video instances that you can watch. I just don't like being time gated on the dialogue. GW1 for example had it somehow worked out. There ingame were video cutscenes, and text that you can read on one page. I never felt lost in the story or anything. GW2, had me lost after HOT really, I see recurring characters, but have 0 sympathy to them. Eir's death was the last story instance that i remember.

15 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i don't understand this mentality. usually when people buy video games, they're happy to have filler content because every extra hour of gameplay is more bang for your buck, but when it comes to mmos which already offer hundreds of hours of gameplay per expansion, any more is too much.

 

its like so many players these days have never played an rpg of any kind before, or somehow want an mmo to not be an rpg.

Do you consider story a filler content?  I have no issues with RPG, but pacing and delivery of the story, characters etc. I just can be bothered at all. I bet that there is a lot of potential there, but currently there are no memorable characters, aside from maybe Rytlock.

I legit finished EOD story and still think that Kuunavang is the same as  that Saltspray dragon.

Just bring cutscenes back. Come on.

[mandala.8507]

22 hours ago, RagiNagi.1802 said:

I end up watching YT videos on side and just clicking trough the dialogue.

So, you're doing everything you can to not pay attention to the story, but then are upset you don't understand the story?

1 hour ago, RagiNagi.1802 said:

Just bring cutscenes back. Come on.

I think the fact that GW2's story doesn't rely so heavily on cutscenes is one of the game's most endearing qualities. You are actually playing the story, instead of just watching it.

Television is always a great option for quality long-form storytelling for those who want a purely noninteractive experience.

[Kalavier.1097]

4 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

So, you're doing everything you can to not pay attention to the story, but then are upset you don't understand the story?

It's a common complaint I've seen recently. "They don't explain anything!" "Did you read any of the notes in the instance/talk to npcs or listen to them?" "NO!"

 

 

5 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

I think the fact that GW2's story doesn't rely so heavily on cutscenes is one of the game's most endearing qualities. You are actually playing the story, instead of just watching it.

 

Yeah, even GW2's original dialogue system with the cutscene like interactions worked okay, but didn't allow things to happen that we could see like somebody running up or such.

[RagiNagi.1802]

4 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

So, you're doing everything you can to not pay attention to the story, but then are upset you don't understand the story?

I think the fact that GW2's story doesn't rely so heavily on cutscenes is one of the game's most endearing qualities. You are actually playing the story, instead of just watching it.

Television is always a great option for quality long-form storytelling for those who want a purely noninteractive experience.

but this is the pinnacle for cheap ways of making an non-interactive experience. Listening to odd dialogues with monotone voice acting.. if you turn away, you don't even hear what they say. You simply have to stand in the room with right cheek towards the npc and wait for them to tell you something. 😄

[mandala.8507]

1 hour ago, RagiNagi.1802 said:

but this is the pinnacle for cheap ways of making an non-interactive experience. Listening to odd dialogues with monotone voice acting.. if you turn away, you don't even hear what they say. You simply have to stand in the room with right cheek towards the npc and wait for them to tell you something. 😄

Then what are your thoughts on stuff like Wing 6 story? Stunning visuals and strong voice acting interlaced with fast-paced combat? Would you rather that be cutscenes too?

3 hours ago, RagiNagi.1802 said:

I legit finished EOD story and still think that Kuunavang is the same as  that Saltspray dragon.

And like, what do you mean by this, because Kuunavang is a saltspray dragon. Is the fact that there are multiple saltspray dragons confusing you? 

[RagiNagi.1802]

26 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

Then what are your thoughts on stuff like Wing 6 story? Stunning visuals and strong voice acting interlaced with fast-paced combat? Would you rather that be cutscenes too?

I'll be honest, I haven't played trough it for good 6 months. But in general, yes, I like the way Fracs and Raids tell the story. I like custscenes. And I like when the story is tied in the gameplay, yes. I just finished LS1, killed Scarlett. Was fun, a lot to know about it. Was cool how Kas was distracting her. That i thought was a decent way to give this info to me. Now as I'm writing this reply im in After the Battle instance. Just standing there, waiting for people to come in the bar and tell some lines. And just met another character - Marjory's sister. Well thanks for the introduction..

The more i think of it, reading the replies on this thread, the more it seems that what flies over my head are the characters and their interactions. I simply don't care that much about their personal lives 😄 Its cool that Marjory and Kas like each other. But I don't need more details on that. Or Brams interactions with Taimi, all clear, bro.

Just tell me the story. If i will be interested in trivia I will follow up on it on my own time. When I don't want to game.

Do you like to stand around and wait until these characters finish their lines?

26 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

And like, what do you mean by this, because Kuunavang is a saltspray dragon. Is the fact that there are multiple saltspray dragons confusing you? 

haha, ok ok. I meant that Kuunavang is the same dragon we were fighting in the last EOD instance, the bubble dragon. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by RagiNagi.1802

[mandala.8507]

3 minutes ago, RagiNagi.1802 said:

haha, ok ok. I meant that Kuunavang is the same dragon we were fighting in the last EOD instance, the bubble dragon. 

I mean...I...I guess...nah, there's nothing I can say to this, actually 🙃

[phandaria.4891]

I don't disagree with you. My feeling is that simply there was not enough development budget (or time) given for storytelling. Most of the budget was given for map development/meta/gameplay/etc.

Remember that to build up proper storytelling, there needs to be more than just writers. Programmers, designers, animators, voice actors, QA testers and more need to be involved.

When the storytelling is constrained by the budget/time, it ends up feels cheap. For example, putting books or standing still dialogues are efficient ways to insert narrative, however it requires more than that to have immersive storytelling.

Edited July 25, 2023 by phandaria.4891

[Furball.1236]

I enjoyed these things.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Furball.1236

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 7/22/2023 at 9:11 AM, RagiNagi.1802 said:

Hi,

I have recently gotten back to game. And just finished EOD. And to kinda get back in the lore, started playing trough LS.

And man I have to tell you. The story/lore while interesting is delivered in such an odd way. Im now doing that Scarlett Instance called - Connecting the Pieces. Im in the bar, and have to inspect 10 items and give my thoughts on them.. man wth.. or that piece in EOD where you have to eat Sushi or whatever, or that odd quest where you travel around in a skiff checking for explosives under bridge, or where you had to talk with everyone at the end of EOD for achievement and to get some more trivia tid-bits. The story it self is fine i guess. But the delivery completely kills it. I end up watching YT videos on side and just clicking trough the dialogue.

I feel like it was not like that for the base game, or HOT. What happened? The endless unskippable dialogue options and voice acting in game is my guess. I just cant be bothered to go trough that, lol.

I have very little hope for the expansion. Good that GW2's gameplay loop is quite engaging.

gw2, like a lot of mediocre popular media, really likes to show how self-aware and self-referential it is. This sort of narrative style has become really popular over the years. Unfortunately, this idea is poisonous to the idea of the 'suspension of disbelief' (You know?...The whole point of a story..?). The seriousness of a story is overshadowed by one-liners and 'witty' dialogue. It's over-saturation of cleverness.

This is like seeing a play in a theatre and the actors just keep pointing and signaling that there is a backstage area behind the set and thinking that they look so 'cool' for doing it.

[zeyeti.8347]

The story , if you happen to be a new player , is kind of messy , as a long time player i can tell , story in general had ups and downs , but as a new player , (hopefully they added the missing story with scarlett) the holes between expansions and living seasons can be troublesome , as you need to pay gems for them , it doesnt feel like you ahve purchased the whole game.

On 7/22/2023 at 3:11 PM, RagiNagi.1802 said:

Connecting the Pieces

Yes , i can feel you and try to forget those parts , i personnaly try to completely erase from my head the last part after Eod , checking boxes , fishing , collecting flowers , ... sad , because the gameplay of gw 2 is at my own taste very good , and those part doesnt make it shine . I just hope the expansion will focus on gameplay even in the storytelling , the new mastery for flying mounts looks funny tough and let's think the maps are gonna be very vertical.

[Dami.5046]

It's too long. The original game set up it's story with a couple a quests, a mission and a small cut scene. Now i can make a cup of tea and drink it while the characters still yabba on. 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

21 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

gw2, like a lot of mediocre popular media, really likes to show how self-aware and self-referential it is. This sort of narrative style has become really popular over the years. Unfortunately, this idea is poisonous to the idea of the 'suspension of disbelief' (You know?...The whole point of a story..?). The seriousness of a story is overshadowed by one-liners and 'witty' dialogue. It's over-saturation of cleverness.

This is like seeing a play in a theatre and the actors just keep pointing and signaling that there is a backstage area behind the set and thinking that they look so 'cool' for doing it.

I agree, this is one of the biggest, though not the only, problems that most of modern popular storytelling suffers from. I'd say another, at least one causes issues with GW2 and things like the Western Comic industry is having multiple writers working on the stories, with a writer leaving to be replaced by an another and each having a different idea how the on going story should progress and how individual characters should be portrayed. And eventually, as has long been the case with the Big Two Comics, the writers loses track (or even stop caring) about prior events in the story and continuity starts to break down. The whole story and all the characters can be wildly inconsistent.

Makes me understand why Manga and anime is, at least in part, is so popular. I've never really gotten into either, st least yet, but I can see the appeal of something that was largely made with a single author's vision, and that (usually) has an actual beginning, middle, and end, unlike either Western Comics with decades long stories that have no intention of ever ending.

[Nosrorav.4703]

21 hours ago, Dami.5046 said:

It's too long. The original game set up it's story with a couple a quests, a mission and a small cut scene. Now i can make a cup of tea and drink it while the characters still yabba on. 

It's almost like we're playing a role-playing game when we go through stories and narratives.

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, Nosrorav.4703 said:

It's almost like we're playing a role-playing game when we go through stories and narratives.

Actually paying attention to what's going on is hard for some people.

I wonder if they'd also skip dialogue boxes that weren't voiced either.

[Klypto.1703]

Like all things they come to an end this game is just reached its ending which pretty much happened with the end of season 4 living world.  The EoD thing was just the last money grab before game officially went on maintenance mode.

[Nosrorav.4703]

8 minutes ago, Klypto.1703 said:

Like all things they come to an end this game is just reached its ending which pretty much happened with the end of season 4 living world.  The EoD thing was just the last money grab before game officially went on maintenance mode.

Do people even know what "maintenance mode" actually means?

It means no new content. We have an expansion dropping in one week for crying out loud. With two quarterly updates already on the way.

That ain't maintenance mode, My Doomsayer Fellow.

[zeyeti.8347]

5 hours ago, Nosrorav.4703 said:

It's almost like we're playing a role-playing game when we go through stories and narratives.

Agree that there must be some story and narrative without gameplay involved , but don't tell me the last story part was ok , me checking boxes , gather flowers , remember this old character (who the hell is Vlast , ah yes the flying chicken who had 30 sec screen in the whole story and who act as morgan freeman offvoice when something occur we don't understand) , you are a commander who killed x dragons , butchered a god , killed (not really) a thousand year old lich , and now gather flowers and boxes for who the hell even care , thats very underporductive character narrative devellopement , i felt like a poor little thing who just took critical emotional damage who one shot me , while in pof and season 4 my character was a freaking bad*ss.

Last part is 95% narrative and story and remembrance (pressing F to check something is no gameplay) and 5% combat , and bad combat ... last boss deal barely any damage , you press 1 button to make it leave for almost 20 sec... and to kill it , you have to go trough mechanics that don't involve any of your class chracteristics , it could be done naked with a woodplank.... ok story need to be easy , but that easy ... almost an insult to me.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[EdwinLi.1284]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Agree that there must be some story and narrative without gameplay involved , but don't tell me the last story part was ok , me checking boxes , gather flowers , remember this old character (who the hell is Vlast , ah yes the flying chicken who had 30 sec screen in the whole story and who act as morgan freeman offvoice when something occur we don't understand) , you are a commander who killed x dragons , butchered a god , killed (not really) a thousand year old lich , and now gather flowers and boxes for who the hell even care , thats very underporductive character narrative devellopement , i felt like a poor little thing who just took critical emotional damage who one shot me , while in pof and season 4 my character was a freaking bad*ss.

Last part is 95% narrative and story and remembrance (pressing F to check something is no gameplay) and 5% combat , and bad combat ... last boss deal barely any damage , you press 1 button to make it leave for almost 20 sec... and to kill it , you have to go trough mechanics that don't involve any of your class chracteristics , it could be done naked with a woodplank.... ok story need to be easy , but that easy ... almost an insult to me.

 

The Epilogue story chapter involving the Oni demon was certainly more a "slap together last minute" storyline. It is basically something very rushed to conclude all left over side plots in one go so they can jump right into the clean slate storyline set after Elder Dragon Saga since we are meant to dive into things beyond GW1 locations going forward. 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by EdwinLi.1284

[Nosrorav.4703]

On 8/15/2023 at 11:19 AM, zeyeti.8347 said:

Agree that there must be some story and narrative without gameplay involved , but don't tell me the last story part was ok , me checking boxes , gather flowers , remember this old character (who the hell is Vlast , ah yes the flying chicken who had 30 sec screen in the whole story and who act as morgan freeman offvoice when something occur we don't understand) , you are a commander who killed x dragons , butchered a god , killed (not really) a thousand year old lich , and now gather flowers and boxes for who the hell even care , thats very underporductive character narrative devellopement , i felt like a poor little thing who just took critical emotional damage who one shot me , while in pof and season 4 my character was a freaking bad*ss.

Last part is 95% narrative and story and remembrance (pressing F to check something is no gameplay) and 5% combat , and bad combat ... last boss deal barely any damage , you press 1 button to make it leave for almost 20 sec... and to kill it , you have to go trough mechanics that don't involve any of your class chracteristics , it could be done naked with a woodplank.... ok story need to be easy , but that easy ... almost an insult to me.

I think you missed the point of the narrative. It isn't about "gathering flowers and boxes". It's about handling PTSD brought on by ten years of constant warfare against Elder Dragons, former gods, and centuries old lich tyrants, that resulted in constant death around you by your own active choices, or your own inability to act. And that is productive character development - especially for a character who, for half of the past 10 years, has been treated as a blank slate with no personality so players can slap whatever they desire onto it.

Nobody can survive near death experiences and constant death around them while being "a freaking bad*ss" and not end up a total shitfaced mess once the adrenaline dies down.

That one minute segment you highlight is literally just some light comedy spruced in the middle of it.

I'll freely admit they dropped the ball hard on What Lies Within and that... ending... of the demon. But not the whole thing.

On 8/15/2023 at 12:20 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

The Epilogue story chapter involving the Oni demon was certainly more a "slap together last minute" storyline. It is basically something very rushed to conclude all left over side plots in one go so they can jump right into the clean slate storyline set after Elder Dragon Saga since we are meant to dive into things beyond GW1 locations going forward.

"all left over side plots"

So... it concluded the Purists? And the Raisu Palace risen stuff? Empress Ihn's visit to Tyria? Cho-Mo taking his jadetech business outside of Cantha? Or even the Speakers and their willingness to return to ecoterrorism if jadetech isn't cleaned up properly?

It only concluded two side stories: Rama's love life, and Cantha's energy crisis. Four if you count the continuation of Gorrik becoming an official detective and Aurene going to sleep (though the Aurene one wasn't really necessary). That was barely a quarter of the number of side plots remaining.

And that's just about Cantha, not to talk about the side plots left open by HoT, S3, PoF, S4, and IBS that remain untouched.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Nosrorav.4703