Will there be any World vs World changes in upcoming expansion?

[katniss.6735]

The last area we got was desert boarderlands many years ago, and nothing but world structuring and minor changes since then. 

Many streamers for this game still focus on WvW-only content.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

7 minutes ago, katniss.6735 said:

The last area we got was desert boarderlands many years ago, and nothing but world structuring and minor changes since then. 

Many streamers for this game still focus on WvW-only content.

What does streamers have to do with changes in WvW? Do you mean a new map layout would attract streamers and their viewers which in turn would get more money to those streamers and that is your justification for a change or do mean something else?

We all know now that WR wasn't a quick fix and that changes in WvW will take time. Changing maps that are already limited due to how WvW have been built from the very beginning would either just add more paint on a dry wall (too much maze like structure like Desert BL and WvW player will complain; to flat and other WvW player will complain and so on). It would just remove resources from a limited staff that are already working on WR.

We had also with the last patch changes to reward and some other things, so it isn't completely standstill on WvW side, but it the real question is what you are asking for here?

 

[Sobx.1758]

Weapon mastery, new weapons per class and relics will be considered as part of competitive content too, I guess

[Dayra.7405]

WvW is never part of an expansion, simply because it must not require expansions to play WvW

[Danikat.8537]

I don't think any WvW specific changes would be part of the expansion. It wouldn't really work to have WvW features split between people who do have the expansion and people who don't, so changes to it are seperate updates rather than part of expansions.

There have been some changes to the reward structure recently (including a bunch of new things to buy with skirmish tickets) and the work on alliances is apparently on-going. I doubt  they're going to add a new map any time soon considering both times they've tried that it's not been well received but I know there was a road map of more changes posted a while ago.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Dayra.7405 said:

WvW is never part of an expansion, simply because it must not require expansions to play WvW

Kind of. But Warclaw exists.

[Dayra.7405]

10 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Kind of. But Warclaw exists.

Elites as well, so yes, SotO will add new weapon-combinations and new-relict-effects for those who buy it.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Dayra.7405 said:

Elites as well, so yes, SotO will add new weapon-combinations and new-relict-effects for those who buy it.

Yup, as mentioned here:

19 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Weapon mastery, new weapons per class and relics will be considered as part of competitive content too, I guess

[Khisanth.2948]

12 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I doubt  they're going to add a new map any time soon considering both times they've tried that it's not been well received but I know there was a road map of more changes posted a while ago.

Desert was huge for the sake of being huge.

EotM is basically TD(but worse) floating in the sky instead of being underground. EotM has a lot of "it looks like you can walk from here to there but if you try you'll die from falling damage".

12 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Kind of. But Warclaw exists.

Gliding is probably a better example since they actually put in effort to minimize the difference

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Gliding is probably a better example since they actually put in effort to minimize the difference

But it wasn't anything about difference (do you mean "difference between the modes"?), it was about expansions adding stuff to wvw. Warclaw is wvw content, unlocked through wvw gameplay and it comes with an expansion. Not sure gliding is somehow a better example (even moreso since warclaw is made with wvw in mind and has better utility there than in pve maps, which can't be said about gliding), but it can be considered as another example, sure 😄

Edited July 25, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Khisanth.2948]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But it wasn't anything about difference (do you mean "difference between the modes"?), it was about expansions adding stuff to wvw. Warclaw is wvw content, unlocked through wvw gameplay and it comes with an expansion. Not sure gliding is somehow a better example, but it can be considered as another example, sure 😄

With the second rank Warclaw Mastery people without the expansion would get the same benefits. The rest of Warclaw's features doesn't seem to get much use.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Khisanth.2948 said:

With the second rank Warclaw Mastery people without the expansion would get the same benefits. The rest of Warclaw's features doesn't seem to get much use.

"the same benefit" only if you talk about out of combat movement, but other than that, they're not getting the same access to what warclaw does, even if they don't seem like as much use for you.

[Custodio.6134]

there will be no changes to WvW that are explicitly tied to the expansions. At least none that are targeted at WvW specifically. 

WvW has basically only once being touched by an expansion (Desert Borderlands with HoT), and the backlash and reversion of 2 out of the 3 borderlands is a strong indicator that ANet most likely won´t attempt this again. 

Of course, Expansion-features naturally influence WvW as well (elite-specializations, the weapon-mastery coming with SotO, Relics etc), but those are fundamental game-systems you cannot just.... not bring into WvW/PvP too. 

Also, ArenaNet is considering WvW a "core-game feature" (which makes sense, it was already released in core-game and has never been an expansion-content to begin with). So it´s more likely that they will make changes if they adress more changes to "core-game features" (as they already announced). 

[Danikat.8537]

If the warclaw is an example of an expansion adding something to WvW then bear in mind it wasn't released until March 2019 - a year and a half after PoF came out. So if something like that is coming with SotO it might not be until one of the later quarterly updates and so won't be announced now.

[Zepoolpe.9217]

New stuff in WvW?
Why can't you just be happy that you are playing a cornerstone of the game!

[ShadowCatz.8437]

20 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

If the warclaw is an example of an expansion adding something to WvW then bear in mind it wasn't released until March 2019 - a year and a half after PoF came out. So if something like that is coming with SotO it might not be until one of the later quarterly updates and so won't be announced now.

I remember that there where also a lot of discussion to have Gliding from HoT maps in WvW and there where counter arguments that it would break things like getting into keep, towers only from having Gliding and that prevented Gliding from being introduced if there wasn't any invisible walls around some objectives. We know that took some time to adjust Gliding in WvW into what it is today to avoid getting zergs or players that Glide into objectives to cap them before anybody had time to defend or do anything.

From that I believe we had a time when player in PvE could use Gliding and much later we got access to Gliding in WvW. So neither expansion had their content translated to new skills or abilities from day one in WvW when we talk about WXP abilities. Elite skills etc are something else as it is related to build (Hero Panel) and had to be integrated into how WvW work as long there isn't any sPVP template like feature that will replace it.

[katniss.6735]

On 7/25/2023 at 1:30 PM, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

What does streamers have to do with changes in WvW? Do you mean a new map layout would attract streamers and their viewers which in turn would get more money to those streamers and that is your justification for a change or do mean something else?

We all know now that WR wasn't a quick fix and that changes in WvW will take time. Changing maps that are already limited due to how WvW have been built from the very beginning would either just add more paint on a dry wall (too much maze like structure like Desert BL and WvW player will complain; to flat and other WvW player will complain and so on). It would just remove resources from a limited staff that are already working on WR.

We had also with the last patch changes to reward and some other things, so it isn't completely standstill on WvW side, but it the real question is what you are asking for here?

 

I don't want changes simply to make streamers money. What an obnoxious thing to suggest. Everyone is bored of WvW. Right now it's just wait until prime time for large scale battles or play other games instead. We want new maps and new things to do in WvW. 

I didn't expect this many replies already. I am just going through these now.

[katniss.6735]

On 7/25/2023 at 1:43 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

I don't think any WvW specific changes would be part of the expansion. It wouldn't really work to have WvW features split between people who do have the expansion and people who don't, so changes to it are seperate updates rather than part of expansions.

There have been some changes to the reward structure recently (including a bunch of new things to buy with skirmish tickets) and the work on alliances is apparently on-going. I doubt  they're going to add a new map any time soon considering both times they've tried that it's not been well received but I know there was a road map of more changes posted a while ago.

Why would it have to be split to be part of the expansion? The expansions are still part of the mainstream game. I don't know why people keep saying this. I forget when Edge of the Mists came out and if that was part of an expansion or not.

I want to see things that encourage people to leave a keep/tower/spawn other than to do the weeklies. If we don't get a new map, create incentives and alternate objectives. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by katniss.6735

[Danikat.8537]

12 minutes ago, katniss.6735 said:

Why would it have to be split to be part of the expansion? The expansions are still part of the mainstream game. I don't know why people keep saying this. I forget when Edge of the Mists came out and if that was part of an expansion or not.

I want to see things that encourage people to leave a keep/tower/spawn other than to do the weeklies. If we don't get a new map, create incentives and alternate objectives. 

It's not splitting the game, it's splitting the players. You can only use expansion features if you own the expansion they're part of, so if they make major aspects of WvW or PvP - like an entire map - part of an expansion then only people who have bought the expansion can go there and other players are excluded. That's not such a problem in PvE because each map is self-contained, but WvW ones all count towards the same goals so if one is restricted to a lower population that's a problem.

Also I don't know how other servers do it but on Desolation it's common for big, public squads to skip between maps based on where they're currently needed or can achieve the most (with smaller squads and individual scouts calling out the status of objectives). If one of the maps is only available to people who bought the relevant expansion then any commander going there risks losing a chunk of their squad.

[TwoTongues.5163]

At this point I'd just be happy if they introduced graphical assets from the new expansion into WvW. I'm surprised they never did with the other 3. It's the mists, they can pretty much do what ever they want and have it make sense. Stuff happening in tyria or wherever the latest story is taking place bleeding into the mists. I dunno maybe it makes more sense to me than others, but yea thats where I'm at. So little has been done for WvW I'd be happy with new things to just look at in WvW.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Unlike all the anti RBL/Desert map people out there, I don't mind RBL and would be keen to see a new WvW map (tho I think they would want to avoid making it as complex and vertical as the desert map is).

It definitely couldn't require SOTO tho, it would have to available to everyone. You couldn't have some people being unable to visit one of the WvW maps.

[MedievalThings.5417]

Well, there will be some changes.  But mostly, the changes will be the ridiculously broken things people will do with elite spec weapons being available by other elite specs, that no one bothered to test before they released the expac.

[Custodio.6134]

Well, you will always have people complaining, but there's one thing I've already suggested regarding maps.

 

They could at least "reskin" an alpine borderlands to match the visuals of an expansion. This way, we at least see something tbh. Imagine a map with the exact same layout as alpine, but visually themed as the jade-sea (just as example, because jade, green etc). It at least would make it visually clear which border you are on, and renaming objectives to match the map would also help (it sitll happens that people confuse bbl hills/bay with gbl hills/bay).

 

That could be a first step forward

[katniss.6735]

I'm all for visual updates to maps.

Right now EBG is the most popular map because Stonemist is a centralized pivot point for all three teams to engage at. So creating engagement on alpine in the mid to lower mid would be good. The ruins are not really doing that.

An update they can do is change blue keep walls so that you can't damage inner and outer walls at the same time with a treb. And to make it impossible to damage 3 walls at the same time. That takes so much supply to fix.

And for red/desert bl, a lot of the keep movement things are cool, and the place looks great, but there's so many huge mountains that block line of sight and add to long periods of time to set up smaller engagements.

Edited July 27, 2023 by katniss.6735

[Burnfall.9573]

On 7/25/2023 at 12:09 PM, katniss.6735 said:

The last area we got was desert boarderlands many years ago, and nothing but world structuring and minor changes since then. 

Many streamers for this game still focus on WvW-only content.

If Anet were to release WvW expansion; just like how they treat PvP balance patches...make WvW Only balance patches as well.

 

I would expect WvW  Only balance patch to be the following:

 

- Thief Profession removed-pending rework - WvW Only

-  Mesmer Profession removed-pending rework - WvW Only

- Warrior Profession removed-pending rework - WvW Only

- Elementalist Profession-removed-pending rework - WvW Only

-Willbender removed - WvW Only

-Daredevil removed - WvW Only

-Deadeye removed - WvW Only

- Specar removed - WvW Only

- Stealth Mechanic removed - WvW Only

 

---------Control Effects---------

- Stun disabled - WvW Only

- Pull disabled - WvW Only

- Knockdown disabled - WvW Only

- Launch disabled - WvW only

- Blind disabled - WvW Only

- Immobilize disabled  - WvW Only 

 

------Stats------

-Celestial removed - WvW Only

 

------Boons-------

- Quickness removed - WvW Only

- Alacrity removed - WvW Only

 

--------Runes------------

-Superior Rune of Trapper removed - WvW Only

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Burnfall.9573