Is there a reason why GW2 PvP is so poorly balanced?

[Mell.4873]

On 12/17/2023 at 12:59 AM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

honestly, i feel like it was quite balanced before path of fire, despite that we had way more diversity back then with all the amulets and the overpowered builds and whatnot. the reason is simple, the game was alot slower and that allowed players to react better, although i don't think it got really bad until end of dragons.

 

if you go back and watch a pvp match from 2015 or earlier on youtube, its completely different from 2020 and later. all the players don't have permanent swiftness, they aren't porting all around, there's no alacrity or quickness buffs on the group (except the occasional time warp), all the skills had higher cooldowns unless you were on a specialised build that specifically took the cooldown reduction traits, and there was significantly less instant-cast skills, and the list goes on.

 

i think that, starting around path of fire the balance team really started to get obsessed with extremely fast-paced spam-ridden combat. the concept of the node disappeared and just became a target for machinegun'ed area effects, the concept of support disappeared since its impossible to keep allies alive under most bursts (remember when one core support guardian per team was hard meta?), and so on and so forth.

 

i think its been years since i played my tempest as a full support instead of a hybrid damage support (i mean, only aura spam really matters).

 

think about how massive of a damage reduction they did over the years, carving huge chunks out of our dps, and yet players currently die faster than ever. that's because it's not about big numbers anymore, its just about rolling that spam out across the battlefield like an unstoppable train-wreck.

I guess what is more frustrating getting one shot like today's meta or being unable to kill someone because they play a bunker build. 

Honestly Warrior is still a bunker hense why I tell my team to never contest a point he has capped.

There is just way to much going on in this day and age for PVP you either one shot your opponent or you get one shot. I find myself playing builds that have alot of sustain then trying to output a little bit of burst to catch enemies at the right time. It kind of a dice roll at this point.

I play a double Axe Ranger so I can chain ambushes which is literally the definition of a dice roll. 

[Frequency.6407]

Guild wars is poorly balanced compared to which other MMO?

[Mell.4873]

14 hours ago, Frequency.6407 said:

Guild wars is poorly balanced compared to which other MMO?

I would rather GW2 balance than what other MMOs tend to do which is neuter all there classes so they all play the same. ESO being a prime example of this in action. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Gw2 balance isn't insanely bad, I just wish the devs that decide on balance changes played other classes more often or had each member required to spend a amount of time on 3 classes and thier specs. It seems like certain devs are assigned certain classes but it's apparent that they don't play much of some of the classes. If they did this the devs wouldn't have to take advice from forums or reddit on balance due to 99% of it being horrible advice. What's worse is when they do so the won't make the changes as advised on and will put their own spin on it resulting in even worse change confusing everyone. A proper dev team that maintains balance in a mmo has to at least have a team that has the knowledge throughout the team of all the classes, not few members who play 1 or to classes and guess om the others.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[lothkru.6237]

My biggest grip with Gw2's PvP is not even the one-shot capabilities (it's annoying when bruiser classes can one-shot you, that's stupid though, only glass cannons should be able to one-shot), the biggest issue in PvP is that the game is a big *** CC fiesta, if your class lacks stability uptime, you're always on the floor, dazed, stunned or god knows what incapable of doing ANYTHING while the enemy team is on your ***. Either your team has a good core guardian or your can give yourself constant stability, otherwise you can't do any form of PvP, to me that's the issue, too many AoE CC within some classes.

Edited December 23, 2023 by lothkru.6237

[recipesw.7453]

On 7/29/2023 at 10:18 PM, Gehenna.3625 said:

Because it's an MMO. That's the short answer to your question.

Wow, thanks for the info. I didn't know that 1 hit KOs were a thing in MMOs. Now that I know it I'll be more careful regarding my future statements 😂

[recipesw.7453]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:43 AM, Gop.8713 said:

The short answer is build diversity. "Balance" sounds great bc in a balanced environment player skill plays a greater role in determining outcomes, and that's what we all want right? We all want that opportunity to win every match based on our own superior skill rather than constantly getting outplayed by someone else's lame "cheat" build. The problem is that ninety percent of us aren't in the top ten percent, and without our builds to carry us we'd be losing so much we'd quit . . .

So the game is intentionally unbalanced to allow players of a variety of skill levels an opportunity to be competitive in games amongst one another . . .

I'll gladly accept a build that makes the elementalist be invisible 90%of the time, or a warrior having 20 weapon skills available at once, or a ranger having a second reserve bar and 5s stuns etc etc etc

Yes, you can call these strengths and weaknesses but they are not balanced strangths and weaknesses. For example, till now, I've never seen an elementalist or a willbender being unable to flee from a combat 1v1 in WvW. Not even once. I really wanna see the "balance" here.

Allergy to criticism is another serious issue here.

[Dirame.8521]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:05 PM, Whiskiz.3091 said:

From builds that pull in and cc then 1sec spin 100 - 0, to cc'd 3 times in a row by a specter then deleted almost as quick, to basically everything once in the know - being 100 - 0 almost instantly

Mukluk sums it up perfectly @ 2:28 at the end of this video i found, after having encountered it myself and looking it up:

"I don't like matches where people are getting one shot, that's not MMO gameplay, that's FPS gameplay"

Absolutely nails it

GW2 PvP balancing is extremely poor

Is there a particular reason for this? why time to kill is literally in the seconds? are they going for CS:GO market share or something?

Did they purposely make it this way to drive off the population, to make one less mode to have to support?

Otherwise i don't get it

Every time he gets blown up he's in an outnumbered scenario. To expect that you'll survive for more than 5s in an outnumbered scenario in a Platinum match must mean you are ACTUALLY GOOD at the game and your build supports that. But his build doesn't support that so... his complaint is a non issue. I've literally seen an Engie that uses no kits survive longer than he did in a against an Air burst ele.

[jdawgie.1835]

On 8/1/2023 at 7:20 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The reason it got retired from those handlers is because the pvp meta at that point was boring. Anet had balanced into a bunker meta and the matches showcased for the esports sprint were uneventful and uninteresting.

Keep in mind no teams that played in the esports sprint were affected by the soloq vote. Tournaments were not and are not solo q.

The solo q vote was a factor in population decline (because people with friends they like will tend to want to play with them repeatedly), but the ultimate cause of the esports fumble and anets (seeming) subsequent abandonment of the sphere was largely its own fault.

The Solo que vote affected pvp guilds. It removed them from the game. Which killed the PvP population, and killed PvP as a result. Solo q vote had a very direct impact on this game. @Alin.2468 who posted: 

On 7/31/2023 at 4:03 PM, Alin.2468 said:

PvP of Guild Wars 2 died with the official vote for SoloQ from players, which was requested and organised in 2016. That moment marked the end of eSports scene for Guild Wars 2, as even ESL and Battlefy removed it from their lists a few months later. Since that vote in 2016, barely any content was added to PvP. This is why in my opinion PvP was killed at that vote which eliminated teams, and buried the whole concept afterwards using one expansion after another through no meaningful content designed for PvP.

The new expansion Secrets of Obscure already showcased nothing for PvP. I believe it to be crystal clear to anyone by now: this game is almost entirely about PvE, because players have chosen and voted. Decision of players must be respected, because it is their choice. Vox populi, vox dei.

Is absolutely correct. 

Edited June 21 by jdawgie.1835

[Marckan.9526]

On 7/30/2023 at 8:56 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

we really shouldn't be using Muk for anything competitive related.  

This should be the take of this entire thread, Mukluk is a PvE player, and yes that does say a lot.

With that said though, nobody misses the vanilla PvP more than I do, with all the flaws it had I enjoyed playing it a lot more than whatever we have today.

IMO the game started going downhill when healing became abundant which then then forced this burst damage to evolve in order to overcome said healing.

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, Marckan.9526 said:

This should be the take of this entire thread, Mukluk is a PvE player, and yes that does say a lot.

With that said though, nobody misses the vanilla PvP more than I do, with all the flaws it had I enjoyed playing it a lot more than whatever we have today.

IMO the game started going downhill when healing became abundant which then then forced this burst damage to evolve in order to overcome said healing.

You can't blame healing, or dps, or anything else of that context. They are all perfectly fine concepts that have place in any game of this nature, it is upto the developer to ensure they are balanced properly, which Anet has clearly lost all control of. Power/mobility is massively crept, CC/stab etc is way over spammed, and there is only 1 or 2 viable supports at any given time, not that anybody really plays them becuase the crept power/roam + 3 points does everything other than encourage teamwork. A wide MMr with duo option, which only further favous power dps roaming of plats farming low golds who have no support and no cooperation? Anet is the problem for facilitating the previous and current game state.

 

The game on a mechanical level is pretty kitten toxic, nion every spec is border line griefing level mechanics (even my own), and the remaining sPVP playerbase are mostly of those who do not even see it that way, so would defend their daze/cc spam, their stab spam, their stealth/mobility spam, and their block-immune spam. Also they will, and do defend their low effort/risk high impact specs, becuase all they really want is a title for ego, and don't care how it is achieved <insert defense of wide mmr to farm low gold>. Thats the majority of playerbase left who are offering balance suggestions, and defending nerf calls against the degen fest of gw2 specs that are crutch carrying them, or so most hope, to meaningless titles.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 11:44 AM by Flowki.7194

[Burnfall.9573]

49 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

You can't blame healing, or dps, or anything else of that context. They are all perfectly fine concepts that have place in any game of this nature, it is upto the developer to ensure they are balanced properly, which Anet has clearly lost all control of. Power/mobility is massively crept, CC/stab etc is way over spammed, and there is only 1 or 2 viable supports at any given time, not that anybody really plays them becuase the crept power/roam + 3 points does everything other than encourage teamwork. A wide MMr with duo option, which only further favous power dps roaming of plats farming low golds who have no support and no cooperation? Anet is the problem for facilitating the previous and current game state.

 

The game on a mechanical level is pretty kitten toxic, nion every spec is border line griefing level mechanics (even my own), and the remaining sPVP playerbase are mostly of those who do not even see it that way, so would defend their daze/cc spam, their stab spam, their stealth/mobility spam, and their block-immune spam. Also they will, and do defend their low effort/risk high impact specs, becuase all they really want is a title for ego, and don't care how it is achieved <insert defense of wide mmr to farm low gold>. Thats the majority of playerbase left who are offering balance suggestions, and defending nerf calls against the degen fest of gw2 specs that are crutch carrying them, or so most hope, to meaningless titles.

 

 

 

Well said.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:05 PM, Whiskiz.3091 said:

Is there a reason why GW2 PvP is so poorly balanced?

It's so you can complain about it on the forums, that way GW2 is like every other MMO ever made where the players never ever ever ever stop complaining about balance.

GW2 could have just 1 forced lock build in PvP, same class, same traits, same skills, same weapons, ZERO variation and people would still somehow complain that was uNbAlAnCeD because every time you get folded, it's clearly a balance issue and nothing else.

[Dirame.8521]

 

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

You can't blame healing, or dps, or anything else of that context. They are all perfectly fine concepts that have place in any game of this nature, it is upto the developer to ensure they are balanced properly, which Anet has clearly lost all control of. Power/mobility is massively crept, CC/stab etc is way over spammed, and there is only 1 or 2 viable supports at any given time, not that anybody really plays them becuase the crept power/roam + 3 points does everything other than encourage teamwork. A wide MMr with duo option, which only further favous power dps roaming of plats farming low golds who have no support and no cooperation? Anet is the problem for facilitating the previous and current game state.

 

The game on a mechanical level is pretty kitten toxic, nion every spec is border line griefing level mechanics (even my own), and the remaining sPVP playerbase are mostly of those who do not even see it that way, so would defend their daze/cc spam, their stab spam, their stealth/mobility spam, and their block-immune spam. Also they will, and do defend their low effort/risk high impact specs, becuase all they really want is a title for ego, and don't care how it is achieved <insert defense of wide mmr to farm low gold>. Thats the majority of playerbase left who are offering balance suggestions, and defending nerf calls against the degen fest of gw2 specs that are crutch carrying them, or so most hope, to meaningless titles.

 

 

No the current state of the meta is simply the evolution of the playerbase.

1- Burst specs are more enjoyable to play and win games more often than Bunker specs

2- CC destroys bunker specs. This is what people learned more recently.

3- You can't expect focus fire in solo q unless your team talks about it beforehand. So might as well just be the guy that can down an entire army yourself.

There are good bunker builds in the game. I know an Engie who plays Bow and Elixir Gun to heal his teammates and he does a good job of it too but is he going to get favourable matchups every single time? Nope. He can more easily sway the match if he just plays AOE Stun/Burst build no.300.

People have eventually figured out what works in PvP. The only thing that can save it now is something like Codex Arena in GW1 where certain skills/Traits are locked out and you just have to make your builds from the skills you have available. I think that would make for an interesting competitive scene.

Edited Sunday at 01:51 PM by Dirame.8521

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, Dirame.8521 said:

 

No the current state of the meta is simply the evolution of the playerbase.

1- Burst specs are more enjoyable to play and win games more often than Bunker specs

2- CC destroys bunker specs. This is what people learned more recently.

3- You can't expect focus fire in solo q unless your team talks about it beforehand. So might as well just be the guy that can down an entire army yourself.

There are good bunker builds in the game. I know an Engie who plays Bow and Elixir Gun to heal his teammates and he does a good job of it too but is he going to get favourable matchups every single time? Nope. He can more easily sway the match if he just plays AOE Stun/Burst build no.300.

People have eventually figured out what works in PvP. The only thing that can save it now is something like Codex Arena in GW1 where certain skills/Traits are locked out and you just have to make your builds from the skills you have available. I think that would make for an interesting competitive scene.

It is the evolotion of what is the most effective spam of XYZ mechanic, in which Anet have laced the game with, nothing more.

 

Take for example mobility. It is crept becuase nion every current roam spec effectively ignores immob/cripple with resistance/traits.. they litterally are immune to them, to the point cripple is just a dmg buff for some specs. In a well balanced game, cripple/immob would be sparcely abailable, and would have high impact when used at the right time vs kiters, healers or what ever else. Apply that same princible to CC/stab and boons in general..  spam wars 2 is the most accurate way to some up the game, and that is entirely Anets doing from the base mechanics. They even done it with new weapons, just look at ranger maces.

Edited Sunday at 04:18 PM by Flowki.7194

[Crackz.5278]

Tag or mention the moderators so they can read this and the different topics of pvp. because according to the anet admins when I sent a ticket about the poor balance of the queue. They told me that mods are always on the lookout (their credibility is 1% yes and 99% No).

In conclusion ... the only way to be taken into serious is by tagging the moderators. Maybe they will continue to ignore us in the short term, but with so much insistence in the long term, Anet will listen to us.

Edited Sunday at 06:18 PM by Crackz.5278

[Dirame.8521]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

It is the evolotion of what is the most effective spam of XYZ mechanic, in which Anet have laced the game with, nothing more.

 

Take for example mobility. It is crept becuase nion every current roam spec effectively ignores immob/cripple with resistance/traits.. they litterally are immune to them, to the point cripple is just a dmg buff for some specs. In a well balanced game, cripple/immob would be sparcely abailable, and would have high impact when used at the right time vs kiters, healers or what ever else. Apply that same princible to CC/stab and boons in general..  spam wars 2 is the most accurate way to some up the game, and that is entirely Anets doing from the base mechanics. They even done it with new weapons, just look at ranger maces.

I find Cripple to be sparsely used actually. But when I do use it, it is incredibly useful. Escaping is way easier when you've crippled the enemy. Chasing is way easier when you've crippled the enemy. I literally have a build built around using cripple. And I love it, but I can't always win 2v1s with it so... which brings me back to my point, we all want that Build that can outplay multiple foes which grants us more wins than losses.

But Introduce Codex Arena we will fix all that, and we'll have a field day in testing our braincells.

Edited Sunday at 07:53 PM by Dirame.8521

[Flowki.7194]

22 minutes ago, Dirame.8521 said:

I find Cripple to be sparsely used actually. But when I do use it, it is incredibly useful. Escaping is way easier when you've crippled the enemy. Chasing is way easier when you've crippled the enemy. I literally have a build built around using cripple. And I love it, but I can't always win 2v1s with it so... which brings me back to my point, we all want that Build that can outplay multiple foes which grants us more wins than losses.

But Introduce Codex Arena we will fix all that, and we'll have a field day in testing our braincells.

Cripple/immob combined is pretty spammed, you can see that for yourself by playing a group fighter and deliberately take no res/trait.

 

The other part ofc, the more builds that can outplay multiple builds the better, but that is no longer the case when things life thief are crutched on stealth/mobility with no real counters, and fool proof specs like SPB ensureing the recovery from aweful mistakes. Just go ahead and think about what you need to do to outplay an SPB/mace ranger, outside of kiting them.

Edited Sunday at 08:14 PM by Flowki.7194

[Dirame.8521]

24 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Cripple/immob combined is pretty spammed, you can see that for yourself by playing a group fighter and deliberately take no res/trait.

 

The other part ofc, the more builds that can outplay multiple builds the better, but that is no longer the case when things life thief are crutched on stealth/mobility with no real counters, and fool proof specs like SPB ensureing the recovery from aweful mistakes. Just go ahead and think about what you need to do to outplay an SPB/mace ranger, outside of kiting them.

Well, I play a Core engie with more stuns than an Elephant Gun so I have no problem with Thief/SPB or Mace Rangers. It's when I play other builds I just start to cry big man tears.

[Razor.6392]

Remember when they did a massive pvp balance pass + skill split, lowering all the damage across the board?

Lol, lmao even. Nothing has changed it seems.