I Can't Make a Build Without Bull's Charge, The Game Loses All of It's Fun (wvw/pvp)

[Yerlock.4678]

Seriously, I can't start a build without it. Played this game since 2012 and every warrior build I make or theory craft is either Bull's charge, or it isn't and the fun of the game goes down by about 60%. Am I on crazy pills or is this ability one of the only "fun" ones in the game? Stomp doesn't have evade frames and misses half the time because of blind, or get's interrupted. Throw Bolas has precasts that make me want to cry and even then its just so freaking boring. Nothing at all fills this niche except for Bull's Charge. And when I don't use it it feels like no other gap closers do the job that would replace it. The Berzerker leap skill doesn't stun, the sword 2 skill is jank, Rush always misses cuz of jank and has no cc. (Tbh GS needs reworks imo). 

Warrior needs more mobility since it's such a melee focused class, and it really is lacking it without Bull's. Am I the only one who's like this? 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

For real. Bull's Charge is the most reliable +600 range mobility skill we have.

• doesn't go in the wrong f'ing direction
• gets there quickly
• has evade frames
• knock downs the target

BC is the epitome of a perfect utility skill. Do they all need to be perfect? No. But they should have a place.

I will say that a shield mastery traited Sundering Leap is good in the current state of the game. If Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline had 900 range on them and a shorter cast then they would be as good as BC. Banners are close to being perfect. I think they should all have 900 range and a 1/2s cast time (not Battle Standard).

Signets just need their passives to persist when traited, like many of the other signet traits. Healing Signet needs more healing on the active as well as resolution added onto it. The CDs on some could still be shaved.

Shouts... Man... On My Mark needs to be a 600 radius AoE, drop the vuln stacks to 5 if need be. For Great Justice needs the WvW/PvP version baseline in PvE but higher duration on the might (i.e. 12 stacks for 12s). Shake it Off needs the ammo back in WvW/PvP. Either that or make Shrug it Off an exact copy of it rather than the original crappy version of the skill. Fear Me needs more as well, it is not strong enough for the CD to be taken. It's funny in RBL don't get me wrong, but not worth taking in 99.999% of the game. Maybe add confusion stacks to it? Or ammo like the rest of the shouts? CD reduction based on amount of affected foes? Something. Anything.

For Physicals... Kick I would add damage back into in competitive, roughly 2/3 of the old damage, and a faster travel speed. Throw Bolas, I would add a flip over to pull the target to the warrior and increase the projectile speed by 100%, no damage increase. Stomp I would change to a 0 distance launch and add slow (3s) to it. Rampage I still feel should lose the added stats and become a toggled mode like a weapon kit, but with the current cast time so it can be interrupted for counter play. If more counter play is needed, well the utility bar would be locked so the warrior would be forced to leave to heal so I am not convinced this would be needed, but it could add 1 stack of burning for 8s every second to the warrior while they remain in the form (Think Might Guy from Naruto).

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Throw Bolas, I would add a flip over to pull the target to the warrior and increase the projectile speed by 100%, no damage increase. 

I've always thought something like that or make it a KD too if the target is moving.

[Yerlock.4678]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

For real. Bull's Charge is the most reliable +600 range mobility skill we have.

• doesn't go in the wrong f'ing direction
• gets there quickly
• has evade frames
• knock downs the target

BC is the epitome of a perfect utility skill. Do they all need to be perfect? No. But they should have a place.

I will say that a shield mastery traited Sundering Leap is good in the current state of the game. If Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline had 900 range on them and a shorter cast then they would be as good as BC. Banners are close to being perfect. I think they should all have 900 range and a 1/2s cast time (not Battle Standard).

Signets just need their passives to persist when traited, like many of the other signet traits. Healing Signet needs more healing on the active as well as resolution added onto it. The CDs on some could still be shaved.

Shouts... Man... On My Mark needs to be a 600 radius AoE, drop the vuln stacks to 5 if need be. For Great Justice needs the WvW/PvP version baseline in PvE but higher duration on the might (i.e. 12 stacks for 12s). Shake it Off needs the ammo back in WvW/PvP. Either that or make Shrug it Off an exact copy of it rather than the original crappy version of the skill. Fear Me needs more as well, it is not strong enough for the CD to be taken. It's funny in RBL don't get me wrong, but not worth taking in 99.999% of the game. Maybe add confusion stacks to it? Or ammo like the rest of the shouts? CD reduction based on amount of affected foes? Something. Anything.

For Physicals... Kick I would add damage back into in competitive, roughly 2/3 of the old damage, and a faster travel speed. Throw Bolas, I would add a flip over to pull the target to the warrior and increase the projectile speed by 100%, no damage increase. Stomp I would change to a 0 distance launch and add slow (3s) to it. Rampage I still feel should lose the added stats and become a toggled mode like a weapon kit, but with the current cast time so it can be interrupted for counter play. If more counter play is needed, well the utility bar would be locked so the warrior would be forced to leave to heal so I am not convinced this would be needed, but it could add 1 stack of burning for 8s every second to the warrior while they remain in the form (Think Might Guy from Naruto).

Some good ideas there. Throw bolas needs work for kitten sure, and that idea makes a lot of sense. Ranged people could use it without pulling, and melee focused users could pull with it. There's not enough good gap closers rn for warrior. I really hope physical skills in particular get another pass so that they're closer to Bull's Charge quality.

[oscuro.9720]

This is an interesting point, because Warrior isn’t lacking mobility. In terms of being able to traverse raw a map it’s not bad at all. (This conversation excludes bladesworn, which is its own balance thing entirely imo). 

However, all that mobility, excluding whirlwind and bulls rush, is slow and/or uncovered. This makes it far less useful in combat despite having good mobility over a period of space.

The lack of mobility that has cover or speed means that Warrior struggles to be the one who dictates the pace and engagements in the fight (not impossible, mind you. But most warriors in the game lack the skill and/or knowledge to be able to do so).

So the need of Warrior is fast mobility. Let’s use an example; rush vs Revenant GS “better version of rush”. The biggest difference in the revenant version being better isn’t the hit box/reliability, though that is certainly an improvement. The speed with which it closes a gap and the lack of an excessively long aftercast that roots the player and can’t be cancelled if you want to deal damage are what really make the difference.

Similar deal with swoop and Soulbeast Bird Skill and many other mobility skills in the game. All Warrior mobility are either slow, have a horrendous after cast that almost  engages the mobility, or both. And none have cover.

Im not going to say how this can be fixed or the skills can be improved. I’ve said how times before and ideas are a dime a dozen. But I feel that properly identifying the problem is important. 

[SleepyBat.9034]

I'm going to link my post about the playability of Bladesworn since it touches on some of the same topics from my perspective as a Bladesworn "main". I think Bladesworn is the ideal elite spec to break free from all the mandatory aspects that Warrior seems to suffer from, traits like Fast Hands and skills like Bulls Charge.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by SleepyBat.9034

[WingSwipe.3084]

Dont mention the bolas, remember seeing a  "Nerf warrior" thread in the PVP section about someone getting bolad and 2 tapped by a gunflame build.

Azure was going hysterical in that thread, good times, spicy memes.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Dont mention the bolas, remember seeing a  "Nerf warrior" thread in the PVP section about someone getting bolad and 2 tapped by a gunflame build.

Azure was going hysterical in that thread, good times, spicy memes.

*Distant cackling* 

[Cuks.8241]

On 8/2/2023 at 3:58 AM, gmmg.9210 said:

Seriously, I can't start a build without it. Played this game since 2012 and every warrior build I make or theory craft is either Bull's charge, or it isn't and the fun of the game goes down by about 60%.

Funny, when I saw the title I thought to write just "Bull's charge makes warrior 70% more fun".

Yeah, besides the bladesworn shout spam abomination Bull's charge has been on my "R" key since I started to play this game (and unlocked the ability). Actually I am not even sure I didn't have it on Bsw kitten. Outside of instanced pve.

[JTGuevara.9018]

9 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Dont mention the bolas, remember seeing a  "Nerf warrior" thread in the PVP section about someone getting bolad and 2 tapped by a gunflame build.

Azure was going hysterical in that thread, good times, spicy memes.

The pvp community is just FULL of nonsense. Crybully sweatlords who still pretend that the leaderboard still even means anything and is totally not a rigged piece of dog manure.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

The pvp community is just FULL of nonsense. Crybully sweatlords who still pretend that the leaderboard still even means anything and is totally not a rigged piece of dog manure.

Have you seen the WvW community lately? They blame Cele for all their misfortune...

[Alabastrum.9361]

On 8/2/2023 at 3:58 AM, gmmg.9210 said:

Seriously, I can't start a build without it. Played this game since 2012 and every warrior build I make or theory craft is either Bull's charge, or it isn't and the fun of the game goes down by about 60%. Am I on crazy pills or is this ability one of the only "fun" ones in the game? Stomp doesn't have evade frames and misses half the time because of blind, or get's interrupted. Throw Bolas has precasts that make me want to cry and even then its just so freaking boring. Nothing at all fills this niche except for Bull's Charge. And when I don't use it it feels like no other gap closers do the job that would replace it. The Berzerker leap skill doesn't stun, the sword 2 skill is jank, Rush always misses cuz of jank and has no cc. (Tbh GS needs reworks imo). 

Warrior needs more mobility since it's such a melee focused class, and it really is lacking it without Bull's. Am I the only one who's like this? 

In my experience Banner of Tactics works well and has its own pros and cons over bullscharge.

The 5 sec of Superspeed give you more mobility than bullscharge in a lot of situations and the pulsing resistance helps in a number of matchups. It is also a good tool to save teammates or counter shockauras from tempest in teamfights. Amazing for disengages and engages. 

Drawback cast time(1sec) and cd (30sec )

Also maybe consider playing berserker. For some reason they thought it was a good idea that berserker gets superspeed on entering and exiting berserker mode.

 

On a sidenode. Stomp is one of the best utilities for warrior in the game.

Before they buffed shake it off, for no reason whatsoever..., it was the single lowest cd stunbreak on warrior. (Shake it off should rly got the 30seccd baseline not 24 sec, anet is probably sponsored by taylor swift)

Futhermore it has 1 stack of stab so you can escape or pass over any walls/rings.

Any warrior skill combos off it. (1.5sec duration)

Its one of the few AoE cc abilities that warrior has.

On hit you get an extra stack of stab

You can swap cancel it at any time 

It has a deceptively large range.

 

[sneakytails.5629]

I love stomping a thief into a 15k dagger F1.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 8/9/2023 at 8:42 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Have you seen the WvW community lately? They blame Cele for all their misfortune...

I have! They're just as deluded. It's totally not the obnoxious masses of boons that people are sharing or anything...

NOPE. It's only celestial gear!

[WingSwipe.3084]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:13 PM, JTGuevara.9018 said:

I have! They're just as deluded. It's totally not the obnoxious masses of boons that people are sharing or anything...

NOPE. It's only celestial gear!

Its bold of you to assume people would point out the root of the issue when they are a part of said tree.