Defense Trait Line Mandatory For Almost Every Build. Other Traits need Buffs. (pvp/wvw)

[Yerlock.4678]

All in title. Defense does a lot in it's trait line, and it's overshadowing Strength, tactics, especially arms, etc. Tactics needs more buffs for the upcoming staff warrior support weapon. Strength needs love for duelist specs.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

14 minutes ago, gmmg.9210 said:

All in title. Defense does a lot in it's trait line, and it's overshadowing Strength, tactics, especially arms, etc. Tactics needs more buffs for the upcoming staff warrior support weapon. Strength needs love for duelist specs.

Body Blow doing strike damage...
Brave Stride with a lower CD...
Aggressive Onslaught giving power and precision when quickness is up...

Marching Orders with 0 CD...
Soldiers Comfort with a tiered effect...
Merging PS with MM...
MM healing allies you grant might too...

[oscuro.9720]

To be fair tactics/strength blade is still cracked. 

[Yerlock.4678]

2 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

To be fair tactics/strength blade is still cracked. 

Yeah my only problem with Tactics is it has to be used with Strength also to be viable. It needs more support options imo other than Shouts

[Obtena.7952]

 I'm going to suggest that it's simply the case that that Defense is just generally applicable to any build, while other traitlines are not, leading to the appearance it's 'mandatory'. Defense being "mandatory" is not an indication other traitlines need buffs either. Some traitlines are simply not applicable to all builds, no matter how good they are. Some traitlines are even mandatory when they AREN'T good, because they fit the desired build idea better than others. 

I think people need to be careful how they propose their ideas; if you claim Defense is THAT good, the first thing I'm thinking isn't EVERYTHING else needs a buff. It's that Defense needs a nerf. We've seen this before. Think about the most effective, efficient path for Anet to fix the problem you are highlighting here ... it's not leading to the result you want. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Lonecap.4105]

24 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 I'm going to suggest that it's simply the case that that Defense is just generally applicable to any build, while other traitlines are not, leading to the appearance it's 'mandatory'. Defense being "mandatory" is not an indication other traitlines need buffs either. Some traitlines are simply not applicable to all builds, no matter how good they are. Some traitlines are even mandatory when they AREN'T good, because they fit the desired build idea better than others. 

I think people need to be careful how they propose their ideas; if you claim Defense is THAT good, the first thing I'm thinking isn't EVERYTHING else needs a buff. It's that Defense needs a nerf. We've seen this before. Think about the most effective, efficient path for Anet to fix the problem you are highlighting here ... it's not leading to the result you want. 

Yeah guys, Arms traitline clearly doesn’t need any attention. It’s fine and plenty of people use it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Yeah guys, Arms traitline clearly doesn’t need any attention. It’s fine and plenty of people use it.

Yep, pretty sure offhand mace is absolutely perfect as well.

[Obtena.7952]

39 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Yeah guys, Arms traitline clearly doesn’t need any attention. It’s fine and plenty of people use it.

Hold on ... what I said isn't wrong. If Arms needs attention, that's got nothing to do with Defense being mandatory or not.

Again, these are illogical claims and they get the WRONG attention ... but hey, if you want to jump on the 'didn't want Defense nerfed even though I think it's mandatory' bandwagon ... then be THAT guy. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Sepher Yetzirah.4615]

I'm yet to use the defense traitline. My somewhat young and sometimes suicidal warrior seems to be unaware that it evens exists, never mind that it is that good.

[Napo.1230]

Shhh before they hear you.

They won't buff the other lines but they will just nerf defense so it's on Arms level.

This is the Anet way

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, Napo.1230 said:

Shhh before they hear you.

They won't buff the other lines but they will just nerf defense so it's on Arms level.

This is the Anet way

kitten he's right shut up, run with the w

Edited August 6, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

22 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yep, pretty sure offhand mace is absolutely perfect as well.

Don't forget offhand sword, both weapons carry the entire profession. 

[Sepher Yetzirah.4615]

21 hours ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

Don't forget offhand sword, both weapons carry the entire profession. 

The whole thrust-and-leave-a-sword in your enemy's body while using the main hand's to keep on fighting does look "masterly" in Hollywood though.

If only we had two off-hands, we might carry the entire Tyria with our bare hands.

[Lucentfir.7430]

Unless you're running core in the case you can take both, WvW Defense is mandatory in roaming considering all the other sort of super sustain tanky monster builds running around. Strength works but you're going to have to put in about twice as much as effort and not even win the fight in prolonged/drawn out situations.  Spvp on the other hand Strength still works fine, has a lot more oomph to it compared to the defense variant.  

[WingSwipe.3084]

On 8/5/2023 at 5:05 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

 I'm going to suggest that it's simply the case that that Defense is just generally applicable to any build, while other traitlines are not, leading to the appearance it's 'mandatory'. Defense being "mandatory" is not an indication other traitlines need buffs either. Some traitlines are simply not applicable to all builds, no matter how good they are. Some traitlines are even mandatory when they AREN'T good, because they fit the desired build idea better than others. 

I think people need to be careful how they propose their ideas; if you claim Defense is THAT good, the first thing I'm thinking isn't EVERYTHING else needs a buff. It's that Defense needs a nerf. We've seen this before. Think about the most effective, efficient path for Anet to fix the problem you are highlighting here ... it's not leading to the result you want. 

Its not that its just applicable on any build for warrior, in competetive game modes it offers so much value to your survivablilty.

The current PVP climate is so hostile to melee players that cant close the distance quickly (aka warriors) that it becomes mandatory to have the defense traits, if not for the major traits, for the minor traits alone.

For example:
Guardians can spec into passive defenses while blinking on people, thus avoiding a good majority of ranged damage you'd have to take in your approach.

[Noc Rubu.5804]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:00 AM, gmmg.9210 said:

All in title. Defense does a lot in it's trait line, and it's overshadowing Strength, tactics, especially arms, etc. Tactics needs more buffs for the upcoming staff warrior support weapon. Strength needs love for duelist specs.

They need to make a monk class. 

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:05 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

 I'm going to suggest that it's simply the case that that Defense is just generally applicable to any build, while other traitlines are not, leading to the appearance it's 'mandatory'. Defense being "mandatory" is not an indication other traitlines need buffs either. Some traitlines are simply not applicable to all builds, no matter how good they are. Some traitlines are even mandatory when they AREN'T good, because they fit the desired build idea better than others. 

I think people need to be careful how they propose their ideas; if you claim Defense is THAT good, the first thing I'm thinking isn't EVERYTHING else needs a buff. It's that Defense needs a nerf. We've seen this before. Think about the most effective, efficient path for Anet to fix the problem you are highlighting here ... it's not leading to the result you want. 

Yes, it's mandatory. If warriors don't take the Defense line, they're lunch. They need that basic sustain to survive. What...? People think that warrior's highest base HP (19,000) and (snicker)...heavy armor alone are going to protect them lmao? (Armor type has been irrelevant for years!)

And even then, the biggest source of warrior sustainability (Adrenal Health) requires EFFORT on the warrior's part.

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Yes, it's mandatory. If warriors don't take the Defense line, they're lunch. They need that basic sustain to survive. What...? People think that warrior's highest base HP (19,000) and (snicker)...heavy armor alone are going to protect them lmao? (Armor type has been irrelevant for years!)

And even then, the biggest source of warrior sustainability (Adrenal Health) requires EFFORT on the warrior's part.

Again, what I'm saying isn't wrong here. Defense is simply more generally applicable than many of the other lines Warriors have. SOMEHOW, people are still convincing themselves that 'mandatory' traitlines are Anet's baseline for buffing other lines  when history suggests that's simply not how Anet regards the game.  What is CERTAINLY not going to happen is that Anet buff EVERYTHING else that isn't Defense because 'mandatory' Defense traitline . 

What I don't get is how experienced players STILL try to support this kind of a premise when we know where it leads ... but OK, be one of the THOSE people if you like. 

Again, it shouldn't have to be said but ... if people are continuously telling Anet how 'mandatory' certain things are, that is NOT going to give those people the result they want. If it were me, my immediate reaction is "sure, that 'mandatory' thing needs a nerf then" because the goal is to have meaningful choices and it's WAY less work to make one or two changes in Defense to make it 'not mandatory' than it is to make many more changes in the other 4 core traitlines ... and STILL not make them compete with Defense because they aren't as generally applicable as Defense is. 

There shouldn't be a debate here: The "thing X is mandatory so non-X things need a buff" is a BAD justification for improvements. 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Obtena.7952