Engineer Grenades is the most obtuse, obnoxious, asinine gameplay ever seen in a MMO

[Arheundel.6451]

The simple fact this garbage is still in the game is unfathomable, while this circus keeps talking about balance here and there. You can dodge both the soulbeast and this engi burst, but the main difference is the first needs to wait at least 1m for his biggest burst, for the remaining of time, the ranger is forced at melee range where you can actually kill him...by contrast this asinine build:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scrapper_-_Burst_Gyro_Scrapper

Will have everything up within one fraction of the time, 1/3 of the time and:

1. Cannot be kited effectively, with 900/1200 CC/dmg thrown your way
2. Cannot be caught easily due superspeed application
3. Still got access to stealth
4. Waterfield + no cast time heal offers plenty of sustain

Luckily, because this build takes 2 brain cells to run, you still win somehow, with these clowns reflecting those grenades straight to their face, but this not detract anything from the absurdity of the overall gameplay offered by such an asinine concept. A build as FA ele get vilified , nerfed and destroyed behind any use while having less sustain, range, no stealth but this kitten is considered balanced and kept in the game

A balance based on the town crier forum...brilliant development plan

P.S

I don't give a kitten what else gets nerfed, the simple fact this kitten is still in the game while everything else of similar and even less damaging magnitude gets nerfed to the ground time and time again. This is frustrating...infuriating and insulting to say the least

Edited August 28, 2023 by Arheundel.6451

[ccccc.4963]

Bad post

[CallousEye.5018]

A lot of the information on meta battle there is incorrect:

• Hammer 2 has an 8 second CD not 6
• Hammer 3 has an 18 second CD not 12
• Medic Gyro & Reconstruction Field have a 1/2 sec cast not instant
• Sneak Gyro has a 75 sec cool down, gives 5 seconds of stealth not 15
• That build takes Invisible Analysis instead of Streamlined Kits and as such has no Swiftness and can't activate Rapid Regeneration. Also is going to move very slow when it doesn't have superspeed.
• I can't imagine why anyone would run rune of the scrapper, might be out of date there.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by CallousEye.5018

[Kuma.1503]

Nades are annoying. 

They're difficult to react to (impossible if they right on top of you). 

Deal high damage

Can be thrown 180 degrees. 

Stack vuln on you very quickly

 

But Anet has decided to balance Engi around nades, and nerf any build that doesn't use nades. So that's what you're going to fight 24/7. I'm not happy about it either as someone who almost never ran nades before, and is kinda forced to now, but here we are. 

[bethekey.8314]

4 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

 

But Anet has decided to balance Engi around nades, and nerf any build that doesn't use nades. So that's what you're going to fight 24/7. I'm not happy about it either as someone who almost never ran nades before, and is kinda forced to now, but here we are. 

Yeah I'm sick of the nade playstyle lol. I don't want to be pigeonholed and I can see how they're frustrating for some to deal with. I wouldn't mind changes (not necessarily nerfs) to how nades function to improve player experience (caster and receiver) at all. Please make other kits more viable.

That being said, current Nade Scrapper is extremely susceptible to CC and condi. Outside of it's initial burst (which often hinges on its Stealth), it's arguably the easiest meta kill in the game.

[cyberzombie.7348]

I remember on a different thread explain why they're so effective. The issue is the 'snap-on target'  + 'intant-cast AoE' options + grenadier  combination is what makes it mechanically broken. Since it's supposed to be balanced around the need to lead in your aim to hit moving targets, the mentioned combo removes that and turns the skills into an omni-directional fire-and-forget.

[Asuran.5469]

just dodge

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The real problem comes from the interaction AOE's has with superspeed+freecam+nades having no real cooldown. You can run away with superspeed while tossing lock on damage behind you, which allows people to spam nades without needing to commit or risk anything. It's basically yet another "attacking while defending" low IQ monkey build as a result of poorly designed mechanics.

People complain about nade damage, but the truth is nade damage has been nerfed plenty. The problem is that nades should force target-facing during the cast thus forcing people to actually interact instead of getting to just brainlessly spam AOE damage from anywhere for free. They could actually BUFF the damage if this mechanical design issue was fixed.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Master Ketsu.4569

[lotus.5672]

On 8/29/2023 at 3:21 AM, cyberzombie.7348 said:

I remember on a different thread explain why they're so effective. The issue is the 'snap-on target'  + 'intant-cast AoE' options + grenadier  combination is what makes it mechanically broken. Since it's supposed to be balanced around the need to lead in your aim to hit moving targets, the mentioned combo removes that and turns the skills into an omni-directional fire-and-forget.

🤫🤫🤫

[magickthief.6492]

On 8/29/2023 at 12:21 AM, cyberzombie.7348 said:

I remember on a different thread explain why they're so effective. The issue is the 'snap-on target'  + 'intant-cast AoE' options + grenadier  combination is what makes it mechanically broken. Since it's supposed to be balanced around the need to lead in your aim to hit moving targets, the mentioned combo removes that and turns the skills into an omni-directional fire-and-forget.

those options are problematic for quite a few builds and professions with those type of skills.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

It's kittening boring too. They should atleast give it some kind of combo or utility like necro staff. 

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

11 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

People complain about nade damage, but the truth is nade damage has been nerfed plenty. The problem is that nades should force target-facing during the cast thus forcing people to actually interact instead of getting to just brainlessly spam AOE damage from anywhere for free. They could actually BUFF the damage if this mechanical design issue was fixed.

How about no, then they'd have to do the same for all ground targeted skills. Would dumb the game down and make it less fun. All they need to do is nerf the auto attack, ranged autos shouldn't be doing that much dmg while also being AoE

[bethekey.8314]

On 8/29/2023 at 12:21 AM, cyberzombie.7348 said:

I remember on a different thread explain why they're so effective. The issue is the 'snap-on target'  + 'intant-cast AoE' options + grenadier  combination is what makes it mechanically broken. Since it's supposed to be balanced around the need to lead in your aim to hit moving targets, the mentioned combo removes that and turns the skills into an omni-directional fire-and-forget.

I'm a little tired of explaining this, even made a video last time I think. Snap to target isn't that good for grenades. Maybe it gives an advantage to complete noobies vs complete noobies?

Instant cast is where it's at. It lets you retarget the nade mid cast and has much higher hit rate than snap to target. It does require aiming though.

40 minutes ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

How about no, then they'd have to do the same for all ground targeted skills. Would dumb the game down and make it less fun. All they need to do is nerf the auto attack, ranged autos shouldn't be doing that much dmg while also being AoE

I'm curious how different classes and weapons compare on auto attack damage (melee vs ranged, single target vs aoe, projectile vs non) in controlled situations (no traits, zerker or condi amulet, same distance for ranged setups etc.). I did a little testing on Engineer and Thief just now on Zerker amulet, killing the light golem 5 times with just autos.

Hammer average kill  = 7.6 sec

Grenades hitting every time from range = 8.15 sec

Rifle = 20+ sec (this is hilariously bad)

In a realistic scenario you won't hit every grenade, so missing 2 attacks out of the 10 (~80% hit rate) raises Grenade auto time to kill to ~11 seconds.

I compared this to Thief shortbow autos, which are also ranged AoE, but without the aimed component (so 100% hit rate) and they were also ~11 seconds.

You seem to have a strong opinion on how much damage autos should do. Have you tested anything? How much should the damage be for different kinds of autos (melee, ranged, projectile, aimed, traited, etc.?)

[Saiyan.1704]

Eh, just space out the three nades when they're thrown. So that there's more risk when spamming them at medium/long range, increase the range of the nades slightly. Increase the damage of individual nades by 4%, all the nades that land up close deals 12% more damage.