Everything feels cheesy.

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

all cele builds are condi and that list dont rank them so it dont tell much at all

I think we will have to disagree here. Using Cele on pure builds be that DPS, Condi, Support, Heal is a waste. Cele is BiS on builds that can support all. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Condi gameplay is ruining the fast pace reactive gameplay that is actually fun

Which is what to finish your point if you don't mind?

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Harbinger is one of the easyer condi builds to figth

Harbi, is weaker against ranged power builds, I would agree. But they are strong if you let them close distance and apply. Even more so if you aren't ready for condi clears or grouped up with others that do.

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Most (ie pretty much all) will consider condi harbinger to be one of the most egregious condi pukers there is. Why are you defending condi? 

Also cele is running cele for a reason otherwise they would be running condi or power. Simple reasoning if you think about it. Hence cele is cele, not condi. If that is considered better than condi with many many more meta builds than actual condi and less condi damage than actual condi... what exactly are you refering to when you say "condi is so op"? Because its clearly not condi builds (as evidenced by your defence of the harbinger).

Did you mean to say cele is op but accidentally defaulted to condi?

Agree Cele is not condi, Cele needs hybrid professions. Even then pure builds can burn the Cele one's down. People can test it themselves. Personally in the balance in Power/Condi/Hybrid/Tanks/Sustain/Heal balance, I think we are not bad. In the boon versus anti-boon, I don't think we are there, IMO.

[Sansar.1302]

4 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I think we will have to disagree here. Using Cele on pure builds be that DPS, Condi, Support, Heal is a waste. Cele is BiS on builds that can support all. 

All condi builds are hybrid

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Sansar.1302 said:

All condi builds are hybrid

Ok so we've established you're saying cele is op, not condi is op.

[Justine.6351]

If you are getting your builds off guildjen, you are the reason this thread exists.

[Sansar.1302]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Ok so we've established you're saying cele is op, not condi is op.

All variations of condi builds are either op or so boring to fight that they should not exist 

[XenesisII.1540]

18 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Harbinger is one of the easyer condi builds to figth

So let me get this straight, you say condi is op and I point out the one spec that mass spams it and you say it's easy to fight?

Seems you can't make up your mind.

[Salt Mode.3780]

 The reason why celestial gears are so strong is because of concentration and expertise. With the surplus amount of boons and might classes that can simply provide for themselves this increases both power and condi damage and with expertise prolongs the duration of not only damaging conditions but debilitating condis as well. This is why celestial stats are so strong right now. If they remove concentration and expertise most of the current builds that abuse it will not be nearly as effective. 

Concentration is strong because it provides duration for protection, which means classes are more tanky on top of the already semi-tanky stats that Celestial provides. With the game nerfing boonstrips/corruption, they are only making celestial stats stronger and stronger. Classes that can simply put debuff on auto, there isn't enough cleanse to cycle through it. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 8/30/2023 at 11:41 PM, TheHealBus.4825 said:

If everything is cheesy, nothing is.

A single post, brimming with wisdom. 

[Sansar.1302]

5 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

So let me get this straight, you say condi is op and I point out the one spec that mass spams it and you say it's easy to fight?

Seems you can't make up your mind.

Harbinger is not the class with most op condi builds, that would be Elementalist and Guardian, yes it is abit too strong but nerf the other more op stuff first

[XenesisII.1540]

28 minutes ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Harbinger is not the class with most op condi builds, that would be Elementalist and Guardian, yes it is abit too strong but nerf the other more op stuff first

This guy plays harbinger. 🤭

When I said a "couple burst builds" I'm sure you know who I was talking about given your statement here. 🤷‍♂️

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Yeah, I don't even know what roaming is anymore.

I've always ran condi druid, and throughout time it has had various levels of cheese--currently feels on the weaker side, but that isn't the point...it's examples like this:

It just feels off.  The first fight the mes nukes my guildie but really doesn't play great despite all the invuln / stealth / condi spam going on.  While not really cheesy to me it just feels annoying to fight, but my Druid build could probably feel same way to some people.

It's the berserker that, I just don't know what this game is anymore.  If I was on a power build it could nuke it in about 3 seconds; even on my condi build which is somewhat bunker (Dire stats) it's just a stalemate because of all the block / invuln / reflect / boon generation / condi cleanse zerker has.  On top of that, if you go into melee you get every condi known to man on you +25 stacks of instant vuln.  

I for one would like to play less condi bunker, but anets balancing isn't towards that right now.  Guess this whole post is just to agree that WvW roaming is just a mess at the moment.

[Sansar.1302]

4 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

This guy plays harbinger. 🤭

When I said a "couple burst builds" I'm sure you know who I was talking about given your statement here. 🤷‍♂️

No I play ranger/untamed

[TheGrimm.5624]

20 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

All condi builds are hybrid

I would have to disagree here. I would define Condi builds as builds that don't do enough DPS to make sense to sense to apply any power/precision or fero to. And even then there are differences even in condi to what you want to apply. Why apply TB to a set that does 1-5 seconds of a condi versus just upping the amount applied?

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

 The reason why celestial gears are so strong is because of concentration and expertise. With the surplus amount of boons and might classes that can simply provide for themselves this increases both power and condi damage and with expertise prolongs the duration of not only damaging conditions but debilitating condis as well. This is why celestial stats are so strong right now. If they remove concentration and expertise most of the current builds that abuse it will not be nearly as effective. 

Concentration is strong because it provides duration for protection, which means classes are more tanky on top of the already semi-tanky stats that Celestial provides. With the game nerfing boonstrips/corruption, they are only making celestial stats stronger and stronger. Classes that can simply put debuff on auto, there isn't enough cleanse to cycle through it. 

Cele is WiS spot unless a class can utilize it, or they are just running in zergs and even then they could have aided their side more by being in a gear set that aided their build versus wasting stats. 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 9/5/2023 at 7:05 AM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I think we will have to disagree here. Using Cele on pure builds be that DPS, Condi, Support, Heal is a waste. Cele is BiS on builds that can support all. 

kinda actually depends the class skill quoficients to use cele that good >_>  the thing is when those specs use well those all stats increments they can become quite strong in sturdiness and damage pressure.

Some classes with cele are still awfull :/

Edited September 6, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[Justine.6351]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Yeah, I don't even know what roaming is anymore.

I've always ran condi druid, and throughout time it has had various levels of cheese--currently feels on the weaker side, but that isn't the point...it's examples like this:

It just feels off.  The first fight the mes nukes my guildie but really doesn't play great despite all the invuln / stealth / condi spam going on.  While not really cheesy to me it just feels annoying to fight, but my Druid build could probably feel same way to some people.

It's the berserker that, I just don't know what this game is anymore.  If I was on a power build it could nuke it in about 3 seconds; even on my condi build which is somewhat bunker (Dire stats) it's just a stalemate because of all the block / invuln / reflect / boon generation / condi cleanse zerker has.  On top of that, if you go into melee you get every condi known to man on you +25 stacks of instant vuln.  

I for one would like to play less condi bunker, but anets balancing isn't towards that right now.  Guess this whole post is just to agree that WvW roaming is just a mess at the moment.

If you want to win vs that berserker you need to play better or get off the training wheels build. You deserved to lose that fight.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

If you want to win vs that berserker you need to play better or get off the training wheels build. You deserved to lose that fight.

Wanna try that post again? 

Oh right, I figured you probably would defend condi-berserker cheese as this also you:  

On 8/27/2023 at 5:10 PM, Justine.6351 said:

Add 3 second stab to all stun breaks when they are used to break a cc.

😂

[Justine.6351]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Wanna try that post again? 

Oh right, I figured you probably would defend condi-berserker cheese as this also you:  

😂

?

I play core mesmer...

[Salt Mode.3780]

14 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Cele is WiS spot unless a class can utilize it, or they are just running in zergs and even then they could have aided their side more by being in a gear set that aided their build versus wasting stats. 

Most of not all builds can fully utilize it, and there are other forms of play instead of just zerging in WvW. Celestial stats benefit builds that have high might uptime and boons in general especially protection which these days almost all classes aside from core can generate. If you want to talk about zergs, a zerg with full celestial vS a zerg that the dps is all on full damage the zerg with full damage will die just as quick against a zerg that is simply running celestial. Being that firebrand can heavily benefit off celestial by providing high boon uptime burn damage and heals. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

?

I play core mesmer...

Core mesmer? In WvW? Or...anywhere really?

That's a neat factoid, but if we go back, I pointed out that condi-zerker has a stupid amount of 'whoops' buttons in invuln / cleanse / reflect and to that I get the reply:

'if you wanna git gud, you should play a non-training wheelz build lol'

When the first fight I handled the very class you play pretty easily (might have had more trouble with core tho as I can't even remember what the icon looks like 😂); anyway, that fight was more to show that some people would probably say virt = op cause of how fast my guildie got nuked, but I went so far as to defend it a bit because while annoying it isn't zerker level of dumb.

Honestly not sure why we are having this discussion when you don't play berserker and the whole fight was a stalemate anyway--'losing' would imply I died but as you can see, they kept just jumping away as literally zero could do to kill them.  

Edited September 6, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Justine.6351]

15 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Core mesmer? In WvW? Or...anywhere really?

That's a neat factoid, but if we go back, I pointed out that condi-zerker has a stupid amount of 'whoops' buttons in invuln / cleanse / reflect and to that I get the reply:

'if you wanna git gud, you should play a non-training wheelz build lol'

When the first fight I handled the very class you play pretty easily (might have had more trouble with core tho as I can't even remember what the icon looks like 😂); anyway, that fight was more to show that some people would probably say virt = op cause of how fast my guildie got nuked, but I went so far as to defend it a bit because while annoying it isn't zerker level of dumb.

Honestly not sure why we are having this discussion when you don't play berserker and the whole fight was a stalemate anyway--'losing' would imply I died but as you can see, they kept just jumping away as literally zero could do to kill them.  

You don't have any damage and neither did they. You lost against the berserker because you clipped it to come complain about another condi bunker not dying to your cheese.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

18 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

You don't have any damage and neither did they. You lost against the berserker because you clipped it to come complain about another condi bunker not dying to your cheese.

I can tick upward of 17k dmg in a few seconds if not for all the cleanse / block / invuln / etc. that warrior possess.  Trust me, most things--including the mes in the first clip die very fast to this build.  

Anyway, I don't even understand how dagger Druid is 'cheese', might need to expand on that one for me as I don't think I've seen another ranger use MH Dagger (like ever) in competitive lol.

But...I could play burst slb and make meme clips of bodying ppl with staff and you can call that 'cheese' too, so what exactly should we be playing...all core? 

Oh that's right, core ranger has a nasty condi trap build...

I'm running out of ideas here, maybe we all play core rev as I can't think of a lesser used spec...

🙃