Wizard's Vault account limits highly incentivize multiboxing

[Dopamine.6324]

On 9/19/2023 at 3:57 AM, Neferpitouh.4356 said:

OP you are 100% right.

Vault daily/weekly farming on alt accounts are beyond broken. It is simply unacceptable. You make 20x more gold on alt accounts than you would've made on a single main. It benches around 400g/h if you are efficient. 

People who are arguing with you are the same people who are abusing it. These very same people do it on every topic whenever alt accounts are mentioned.  They are very very desperate to not get it nerfed. 

anet you are slowly killing your own game. Stop ruining it. There is no justification of 20x income on free heroic alt accounts. 

Restrict stocked MC, gold bag and laurels behind expansion purchases asap. If people want to farm gold on alt accounts, make them at least pay 30$ for expansions. Don' t let them do it with 2$ keys they bought on g2a.

Inflatated player numbers won't help you if your dedicated players keep talking about how unfair the game is. Good luck having new players in that case.

numbers like gold per hour are indeed funny, like on old login system ppl were doing 1500g/h with like 50 alts.. imagine that

[phandaria.4891]

On 9/1/2023 at 4:15 AM, gkoogz.3089 said:

Dude, nobody said you have to upgrade to Soto. The account limits are clearly abusable without soto.

In fact, they are so abusable that most of the wealth in this game will likely be multiboxed accounts reaping mystic coins and bags of coins. It's that simple.

ArenaNet by limiting the number of rewards per account have basically opened the doors to the entire economy of the game being dominated by people willing to open legions of accounts, setting vault to pvp only, then playing 1-2  pvp matches per day on each account.

Why would I play 5 hours on the same account, and get no rewards, when someone could play 30 minutes on each of  10- accounts, and get 5-10x the rewards?

ArenaNet has designed an incentive structure that highly--and I mean RICHLY--rewards people who creates throwaway accounts.

This is how it works. If you play with 10 accounts, rather than 1 account, it helps Arenanet's performance metric. As a single account player, I couldn't care less whether you play 5 hours in single account or 30 mins each on 10 accounts. If you reap better reward, then you should.

It's like BL key farming on level 10 characters. If some people enjoy doing that, then let them do it. Is it unfair, free BL keys? No, because anybody can choose to spend their time like that.

The previous login rewards were a lot worse than the current one. I see the current one has gated the RICHLY reward you mentioned more than previous structure.

If you want to play multiboxed -- I mean earning AA playing the game with multiboxing -- and risk banning, then it's up to you. If you earn AA on 10 accounts separately then you should reap the rewards.

Edited September 21, 2023 by phandaria.4891

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 hours ago, phandaria.4891 said:

This is how it works. If you play with 10 accounts, rather than 1 account, it helps Arenanet's performance metric. As a single account player, I couldn't care less whether you play 5 hours in single account or 30 mins each on 10 accounts. If you reap better reward, then you should.

It's like BL key farming on level 10 characters. If some people enjoy doing that, then let them do it. Is it unfair, free BL keys? No, because anybody can choose to spend their time like that.

The previous login rewards were a lot worse than the current one. I see the current one has gated the RICHLY reward you mentioned more than previous structure.

If you want to play multiboxed -- I mean earning AA playing the game with multiboxing -- and risk banning, then it's up to you. If you earn AA on 10 accounts separately then you should reap the rewards.

Multiboxing is allowed though. It has specific rules that you have to follow. In particular would be: no automation programs, and one button push controls only one character at a time.

It's completely legit to use auto run, swap to the next account, hit auto run, repeat as needed, take off auto run on each account as they get to where you pointed them, initiate an action on one, swap and initiate on another, repeat as needed.

That action could be to gather a resource, or auto attack. It's pretty quick to alt+tab hit 2-3, and do the same for several accounts at a hero point. All of that is within the rules Anet posted on regards to what is allowed while multiboxing.

[Lucy.3728]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:57 AM, Neferpitouh.4356 said:

It benches around 400g/h if you are efficient

how?

[Cernoch.8524]

41 minutes ago, Lucy.3728 said:

how?

you can, I got 900g/h for dailies and weeklies on alts but people are still failing their math so badly. Can you get even those 400g per hour EVERY hour? no you can not. Can you get it even every day? no, you can not. You can get it only when dailies are super simple and you manage to do some weeklies during that, then again, you do weekly once and then you have to wait whole week for reset.

For the OP: you think you can do that just by buying new acc? No, first of all, you need SoTO for T6 bags and for lege kit too I believe? And second, you need lvled up char with unlocked waypoints, maps, stories, etc.....it is not as easy as it sounds in players head. 

 

Edit: Not to mention that value of doing dailies is drastically lower once you get your 90g and 60 MCs.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Cernoch.8524

[Widebody.5071]

Would it not be simpler to just take $2500.00 dollars, buy gems , trade for gold then craft what you need? That's with 100 account of course.

[kharmin.7683]

I'm sure Anet wouldn't mind $2500

[Lucy.3728]

2 hours ago, Cernoch.8524 said:

No, first of all, you need SoTO for T6 bags and for lege kit too I believe?

Why the leg kit?

Then you would need to actually build a legendary since the kit contents are account bound.

2 hours ago, Cernoch.8524 said:

you can, I got 900g/h for dailies and weeklies on alts

How many alts are we talking?

2 hours ago, Cernoch.8524 said:

Not to mention that value of doing dailies is drastically lower once you get your 90g and 60 MCs.

Not to forget you get those 90g and 60 MCs only every 3 month? That like 1g a day..

[Lucy.3728]

37 minutes ago, Widebody.5071 said:

Would it not be simpler to just take $2500.00 dollars, buy gems , trade for gold then craft what you need? That's with 100 account of course.

This game is for the poor.

[Cernoch.8524]

1 hour ago, Lucy.3728 said:

Why the leg kit?

Then you would need to actually build a legendary since the kit contents are account bound.

How many alts are we talking?

Not to forget you get those 90g and 60 MCs only every 3 month? That like 1g a day..

Op mentioned lege kit, as if it is "free golds" for new accounts, you still have to do map comp to craft the lege. So no idea about that. They even fixed the salvagable gift  so you can not make golds with that. 

71 alts for me but like you said only once every 3 months. So while it is truth you can make 400, 500, 600 golds per hour, you can really do it only FEW times during those 3 months. 

 

[Sylvyn.4750]

I'm nearing the point on my main account where I have maybe 2 weeks more of dailies/weeklies before I will have purchased everything of value in the Vault, with the rest being account bound cosmetics or the stuff that just isn't worthwhile, like obsidian shards, transmute charges, gold find increase, etc., so unless someone can point out how the gold train will keep going and going, it seems to me there is a limit beyond which the items that can be converted to gold tail off significantly well before the end of the season.

[Cernoch.8524]

13 minutes ago, Sylvyn.4750 said:

I'm nearing the point on my main account where I have maybe 2 weeks more of dailies/weeklies before I will have purchased everything of value in the Vault, with the rest being account bound cosmetics or the stuff that just isn't worthwhile, like obsidian shards, transmute charges, gold find increase, etc., so unless someone can point out how the gold train will keep going and going, it seems to me there is a limit beyond which the items that can be converted to gold tail off significantly well before the end of the season.

exactly as you say, it seems like a lot of golds at the start of the season but once you get it all, you can not get much that is worth any golds for 2nd half of the season. You can get infinite golds for 30AA but ag per 30AA is not worth to even log on imo.

[Danikat.8537]

I think gold per season is a more relevant metric than gold per hour because, as many people have said, while you can get AA quickly (if you get lucky with the daily and weekly options) there's only a finite amount available to each account, you can't keep farming those easy dailies and weeklies as long as you want.

I suppose hypothetically someone could buy enough accounts that they can spend all their spare time farming, swapping to a new account each time one exhausts the easy or profitable options, but even if they did I'm not sure it would be a problem for anyone else. People objected to multi-account farmers benefiting from the old login rewards because they didn't need to play to get them, just log in then log out of each account. Now they have to play the game to get the majority of the rewards.

[Vayne.8563]

On 9/1/2023 at 1:35 AM, gkoogz.3089 said:

If I have 5 hours of time, (and assuming the weekly is ~1 hour)  I am now HIGHLY incentivized to play 1 hour on each of 5 alt account rather than 5 hours on my main account. That's the problem. By capping the extremely lucrative rewards on 1 account, you basically HIGHLY incentivize people to log onto secondary accounts to get them again.
I've already heard schemes of people opening 20 accounts do the rewards continuously.

Actually this is me. I have 18 accounts, and I do multiple weeklies every week (but only once did I do 18 and it'll probably never happen again). 

Guys who have 1 account, or two accounts, aren't the problem. There were people logging in before with 100 accounts and that was a problem, because they weren't playing. I actually played all 18 accounts (though the first 11 more than others).

Let me ask you though, what's the difference between a single person playing 18 accounts, or 18 different people buying and playing those accounts. It makes the game money, at least in my case, because every one of those accounts has multiple sets of unlimited gathering tools, bag expansion slots, bank expansion tabs, copper fed salvomatics and recharging teleports to a friend.  My wife has the same number of accounts btw.

So the question is, who is being hurt, if my game is incentivized?  

Aside from that my main account has over 45k achievement points and I'm in full legendary. Honestly, who cares or more importantly, why do you care?

[Cernoch.8524]

19 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Actually this is me. I have 18 accounts, and I do multiple weeklies every week (but only once did I do 18 and it'll probably never happen again). 

Guys who have 1 account, or two accounts, aren't the problem. There were people logging in before with 100 accounts and that was a problem, because they weren't playing. I actually played all 18 accounts (though the first 11 more than others).

Let me ask you though, what's the difference between a single person playing 18 accounts, or 18 different people buying and playing those accounts. It makes the game money, at least in my case, because every one of those accounts has multiple sets of unlimited gathering tools, bag expansion slots, bank expansion tabs, copper fed salvomatics and recharging teleports to a friend.  My wife has the same number of accounts btw.

So the question is, who is being hurt, if my game is incentivized?  

Aside from that my main account has over 45k achievement points and I'm in full legendary. Honestly, who cares or more importantly, why do you care?

Wish I know what problem those people have with other people having multiple accounts. Maybe they are jealous of golds those people have, they think they have huge advantage over those with 1 account. While it can be true, there are also people with 1 account making 1k golds every day on trading post, it is not really that hard if you know how to. 

There will always be a way how to make golds, your only option is to learn it too or deal with it that you will be poorer compare to people who know. It is the same irl. 

[Vayne.8563]

1 minute ago, Cernoch.8524 said:

Wish I know what problem those people have with other people having multiple accounts. Maybe they are jealous of golds those people have, they think they have huge advantage over those with 1 account. While it can be true, there are also people with 1 account making 1k golds every day on trading post, it is not really that hard if you know how to. 

There will always be a way how to make golds, your only option is to learn it too or deal with it that you will be poorer compare to people who know. It is the same irl. 

The new changes make it harder to get advantage from alt accounts. You actually have to play them. Not really a problem for me, since I played them anyway, but if anything this new change moves the bar from passive profit to active profit and most people won't do it.

[Lucy.3728]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:59 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

I think gold per season is a more relevant metric than gold per hour

Yes, and then it all comes into relation again.
Then it's like ~3 gold a day on average again?
I'm still not sure if the new system is better than the old one.

From a pure gaming point of view it is better, because you/your account is supported more.

But if you have multiple accounts to push one account, then all the account bound stuff on the other accounts doesn't do you any good and besides it still needs SotO for some prizes.

More costly and time consuming who only has ghost accounts.

I have 3 accounts, but I play them, so it's no extra effort to fulfil the daily and weekly. Since I have wvw everywhere and generally play almost only wvw, it all does itself. The classic wvw weekly is sometimes work.

Although, this week I got 10 shrines in the vault-weekly, and that's already steep. Because in an ordinary wvw week you do not reach 10 shrines. Not even 5 (as it is often required in the other wvw weekly).

 

On 9/22/2023 at 12:05 AM, Vayne.8563 said:

Guys who have 1 account, or two accounts, aren't the problem. There were people logging in before with 100 accounts and that was a problem

The actions of the few, ruin it for the many.

Because they totally exaggerate and exploit it. Abuse the system so much that it harms.

[Lucy.3728]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:57 AM, Neferpitouh.4356 said:

People who are arguing with you are the same people who are abusing it.

Logically, you should know what you're talking about, otherwise one'll come up with something like you with the 400g/h.
You show that you have no idea.

[Widebody.5071]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:47 AM, Lucy.3728 said:

This game is for the poor.

Not if someone's buying a hundred accounts to farm unless whoever posted that is trying blowing smoke up our back side. If so that's the gas lighting I referenced in another post. 🤷‍♂️

[Widebody.5071]

The problem with people saying anything about folks playing multiple accounts is that the multi-account players bought it on themselves. They're the ones complaining about what and how others are enjoying the game. They very well may be the ones championing the rebalancing around around group play instead of class play. They complain about being able to play as they like but in reality are the biggest perpetrators in trying to limit play choice for others.

If you want to multibox that's your business but don't try to preach to others how they should do things. I always thought that this type of gameplay was associated with some type of hustle and since it seems so prevalent in this game I also believe that the population #'s are somewhat skewed.

Just curious... Why is so much gold needed if it's not being sold for real money? 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Widebody.5071

[Lucy.3728]

2 hours ago, Widebody.5071 said:

Not if someone's buying a hundred accounts to farm unless whoever posted that is trying blowing smoke up our back side. If so that's the gas lighting I referenced in another post

Why would they lie about their 100 accounts?

I doubt that they are bought.
There was a time when you could get Heroic Edition keys for free from alienware-arena, for example. There were certainly other promotion sites as well. And some people started abusing these promotions to accumulate a lot of alts for their own benefit.

If someone really bought a lot of complete editions in a legal way, I would thank him for supporting ANet so much.

[Widebody.5071]

1 hour ago, Lucy.3728 said:

Why would they lie about their 100 accounts?

I doubt that they are bought.
There was a time when you could get Heroic Edition keys for free from alienware-arena, for example. There were certainly other promotion sites as well. And some people started abusing these promotions to accumulate a lot of alts for their own benefit.

If someone really bought a lot of complete editions in a legal way, I would thank him for supporting ANet so much.

Whatever you say bud... Pleasure chatting with you, can't wait till your next post and thanks for gracing us poor folks with your presence. 

[Widebody.5071]

Still curious... Why is so much gold needed if it's not being sold for real money? That's a valid question... am I missing out on some type uber useful item that's needed in game or is it just a case of greed and vanity? Legendaries are cool looking But just too flashy for my taste, I even transmute ascended gear that has wild, weird graphics (in my opinion). Black lion items are okay but when I stick with basics I'm good.  

 

[Curennos.9307]

2 hours ago, Widebody.5071 said:

Still curious... Why is so much gold needed if it's not being sold for real money? That's a valid question... am I missing out on some type uber useful item that's needed in game or is it just a case of greed and vanity? Legendaries are cool looking But just too flashy for my taste, I even transmute ascended gear that has wild, weird graphics (in my opinion). Black lion items are okay but when I stick with basics I'm good.  

 

It is (or was) easy gold. It took me ~15 minutes a day for 40-some accounts and I could do it while also doing other things (since it took time for multiple windows to load). You would get laurels and mystic coins, mostly, the former of which can be used to get t6 mats. It funded two sets of legendary armor and the PVP backpiece for me with very little effort. I just like logging in to pvp, do a few events, and some light pve - I didn't want to grind for gold, and multiple account daily logins was a very efficient option to get the gold/resources I needed. I like fiddling with new builds but never had the gold income to get legendary armor, so it was very valuable for me. The old daily login system is gone and I didn't use the system for long, but I have enough resources left over still that I think I can eck out another set of legendary armor too. Overall it was an extremely efficient investment of my time.

I'm not sure if I'll bother with the multi-login with the wizard's vault, particularly since I didn't have the accounts long enough to build up tomes to get them to lv80, so I'd have to level 'em all up some way. I'm really enjoying the vault as well and have mostly been playing my main account, and felt satisfied with the rewards.

I just checked the account played time and it's about an hour playtime. So, probably a little more than an hour spent logging in and whatnot, plus time taken to transfer resources, but it gives a p decent insight into how long it took to get the benefits. Also, logins were multiple at one time (I could do about 5 at once and it took about a minute for 5 to wrap up). 

I think some people would also use multiple accounts to farm meta events for infusions, such as octovine in auric basin, and even w/out infusion looting all that stuff once a day on more than one account is a hefty chunk of change. There's a youtuber, I forget who, that used the logins to fund their guild progression/level up thingy. It makes it easier to afford legendaries, etc.

Ultimately, it was just less effort to set up 40 accounts and log them in each day than it was to farm gold, albeit the up-front cost was higher. There was also a promotion a while ago where you could get a free core account, so people used that to easily get a lot of free accounts - normally they'd be, idk, like 5$ each.

Anyway, in short: I got 2 sets of legendary armor and significant progress on a 3rd (just have to do raid stuff, but all the materials are taken care of) plus a legendary backpack. Lots of mystic coins and other resources, with lots left over.

[Widebody.5071]

Okay I see... Well for replying back I can understand where you're coming from, the ones that say they have all the the legend gear I'm still confused about. Can the free accounts trade now? Thanks for your answer.