ANet, please bring back player character pronouns

[Balsa.3951]

37 minutes ago, AlenaVolkova.8179 said:

They should address me as Commander as usual, not they, how dare they reduce my position in Tyria after I averted so many end time scenario like every player does?

u not the commader anymore u left the fleet a while ago

[Supermarvelous.3910]

On 9/4/2023 at 3:45 PM, DancingShadow.5689 said:

I get that it's more work to give our characters pronouns, and most games don't even bother, but it's one of the smaller things that made me fall in love with gw2, and now that it's gone after I got used to it... that love is being tested

So you're basically saying your affection for the game depends more or less on the pronouns of your (reminder) fictional character lol?

[Mouse.7382]

I went to downtown Seattle last week for a community get together with Anet developers and fans.

Except for 1 attract female Asian dev--the rest was full of soy-boys and Trans people.

So, if your wondering why the pronouns suddenly come, gotta look at the people designing the game and it's fans.

On a plus note--I got a GW 1 pin and food

[Visenya.3056]

I also have nothing against non-binary people, be who you want to be. But I do not like getting these kinds of things forced onto me. I would like my characters to be called he or she, not they. Instead of changing it so drastically, they shouldve added the option on character creation, or upon login after the change, to choose per character what you want to be called. 

[Batalix.2873]

I'm kind of amazed someone would care this viscerally about generic pronouns.

One thing I will observe that is...interesting...is that the adoption of generic pronouns, as an affirmative action juxtaposed against the current cultural backdrop that is still getting used to nongendered language, is in fact quite antithetical to the idea of an MMO avatar. What I mean is, adopting they/them pronouns into your casual lexicon really has nothing to do with you, your identity, or your comfort; it is thoroughly an action of sacrificing aspects of one's own conception of self and other (here, emphasis on self), in order to accommodate *other people* who benefit from that shift in framing. Translating that idea to the setting of character creation in an MMO is tacitly conceding that same point virtually.

In effect, the evergreen MMO idea of character customizability, self expression, and in some instances self-identification, is in fact...undermined, ever so slightly. By a lessened ability to masculinize or feminize your character, and by the tacit implication that community-building is *more important*

But guess what: ethical and communal paradigms have their own virtues, and in the balancing of liberty and duty, we all absolutely are all better off sacrificing small vestigial slivers of hierarchical expression if it benefits the broader community. Every MMO has to balance total freedom and keeping the community alive. Many MMOs have already elected to not have...sliders, to avoid unnecessary objectification and sexualization in commonplace interactions. This transition to generic pronouns is just another variation on that.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[DancingShadow.5689]

2 hours ago, Supermarvelous.3910 said:

So you're basically saying your affection for the game depends more or less on the pronouns of your (reminder) fictional character lol?

No, I'm saying I enjoy the story as a whole and now that a seemingly unimportant but actually surprisingly noticable part of it has changed a certain part of that enjoyment is gone and it affects my entire experience. I like to immerse myself into my character so it's not just a fictional character in those moments, it's, well, me. Again, continuity matters.

Check out Kiki.9450's comment, that explains it well

[DancingShadow.5689]

1 hour ago, Batalix.2873 said:

I'm kind of amazed someone would care this viscerally about generic pronouns.

One thing I will observe that is...interesting...is that the adoption of generic pronouns, as an affirmative action juxtaposed against the current cultural backdrop that is still getting used to nongendered language, is in fact quite antithetical to the idea of an MMO avatar. What I mean is, adopting they/them pronouns into your casual lexicon really has nothing to do with you, your identity, or your comfort; it is thoroughly an action of sacrificing aspects of one's own conception of self and other (here, emphasis on self), in order to accommodate *other people* who benefit from that shift in framing. Translating that idea to the setting of character creation in an MMO is tacitly conceding that same point virtually.

In effect, the evergreen MMO idea of character customizability, self expression, and in some instances self-identification, is in fact...undermined, ever so slightly. By a lessened ability to masculinize or feminize your character, and by the tacit implication that community-building is *more important*

But guess what: ethical and communal paradigms have their own virtues, and in the balancing of liberty and duty, we all absolutely are all better off sacrificing small vestigial slivers of hierarchical expression if it benefits the broader community. Every MMO has to balance total freedom and keeping the community alive. Many MMOs have already elected to not have...sliders, to avoid unnecessary objectification and sexualization in commonplace interactions. This transition to generic pronouns is just another variation on that.

I... have no idea why you would try to make your reply sound this complicated, it doesn't sound smart it's just confusing. Anyways, from what I understand, no, I will not sacrifice my immersion or identity or whatever, just so the developers can put less effort into the game. If they/them pronouns were a part of the game from the start, I would be fine. They weren't. If the developers wanted to be inclusive like I think you're suggesting, they would add the option to choose they pronouns on top of he/she. They didn't. If for whatever reason they still did it to be inclusive, or had any other valid reason for changing it, they would explain it in a blog or somewhere else. So far they haven't which only cements the feeling they're playing dead hoping it'll blow over.

[phandaria.4891]

4 hours ago, Kiki.9450 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Departing

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shining_Blade_Secrets

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Machine

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deep_Trouble_(story)

Here's a handful. I'm sure there's others. These examples span from LWS2 all the way to Gyala Delves.

Yes, these really were recorded differently for males and for females. They didn't take shortcuts previously.

Wow, thank you for these. I never noticed since I only ever played male character. Quite sad to see what happened in SoTo.

2 hours ago, Supermarvelous.3910 said:

So you're basically saying your affection for the game depends more or less on the pronouns of your (reminder) fictional character lol?

I do believe that the main character should represent the player. What's the point of character customization if that's not the case. And Arenanet pushing their own view on the main character is a step too far.

Now, we all know what views Arenanet is leaning to with how loud Yao was. I do dislike Yao, not because of their pronoun, but because I find them cringy. I still feel it is alright for Arenanet to make character like this, as it is their creative right, but not towards the main character as it is the player's blank canvas.

Arenanet should understand that their playerbase consist of many people with different views. Some similar to theirs, some might be the total opposite. And Arenanet should respect all differing views, not just the ones they find comfortable.

Pushing their own views to the main character totally kills it for some people. At the very least, they should be able to make their scripts absolutely neutral of these pronouns, by avoiding all of them.

Edited September 6, 2023 by phandaria.4891

[Xelqypla.6817]

1 minute ago, phandaria.4891 said:

I do believe that the main character should represent the player. What's the point of character customization if that's not the case. And Arenanet pushing their own view on the main character is a step too far.

I've never had a character represent me. They are dolls to push around the gaming board.

The personality of the main character has been more or less set the entire GW2 experience. They are vocal and have a personality. The choices you can make are very few and, while it might impact parts of the story, does not change your characters personality at all. My Female Sylvari says, sounds, and does the exact same thing as your Female Sylvari.

[DancingShadow.5689]

11 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

I've never had a character represent me. They are dolls to push around the gaming board.

The personality of the main character has been more or less set the entire GW2 experience. They are vocal and have a personality. The choices you can make are very few and, while it might impact parts of the story, does not change your characters personality at all. My Female Sylvari says, sounds, and does the exact same thing as your Female Sylvari.

Well doesn't that make the pronouns even more important for those of us that project themselves onto their character? Outside the story, I'd argue that every choice you make represents you through your character, be it reacting to events or whether you try to save NPCs or fight as many enemies as you can. But inside the story, pronouns are one of the most prominent things that reflect each player.

Edited September 6, 2023 by DancingShadow.5689

[Xelqypla.6817]

24 minutes ago, DancingShadow.5689 said:

Well doesn't that make the pronouns even more important for those of us that project themselves onto their character?

That's a bit weird, isn't it? You've projected yourself on a character with a personality you have very little control over, but somehow maintain immersion, yet a 3rd party saying "They" instead of "he" will bring you out of it?

[DancingShadow.5689]

2 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

That's a bit weird, isn't it? You've projected yourself on a character with a personality you have very little control over, but somehow maintain immersion, yet a 3rd party saying "They" instead of "he" will bring you out of it?

Interesting how such an unimportant thing makes so much difference, huh? In other games that were always like this, I don't mind, but here I've gotten used to my own pronouns. And I actually agree with most of my character's choices/dialogue inside the story so that's not a problem for me.

Edited September 6, 2023 by DancingShadow.5689

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

Calling a single person "they" always feels extremely forced unless you truly don't know the sex of the individual. I understand the argument that it saves a tiny bit of budget on VO, but let's be real here, there are other motivations as well. We had dialogue calling an elder dragon "they" when in the past the same dragon had been called "he." In End of Dragons, an NPC literally refers to a robot lying in a junkyard as "they." Wouldn't want to assume anything about the identity of an evil junkyard robot or anything.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Elricht Kaltwind.8796

[GeraldBC.4927]

If you can manage to get the possessed Dagda in the story instanced version of cosmic observatory to name you by your elite spec - which you've already accomplished - then there's no way that getting characters to refer to you by 'him' or 'her' based on your sex is too difficult. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by GeraldBC.4927

[Parasite.5389]

1 minute ago, GeraldBC.4927 said:

If you can manage to get the possessed Dagda in the story instanced version of cosmic observatory to name you by your elite spec - which you've already accomplished - then there's no way that getting characters to refer to you by 'him' or 'her' based on your sex is too difficult. 

she refers to everyone as "Harbinger", it's not based on your class

[GeraldBC.4927]

49 minutes ago, Parasite.5389 said:

she refers to everyone as "Harbinger", it's not based on your class

Okay I didn't know that. I actually thought this was a little surprise thing where she has 27 different voice lines for that one line just to call you by your elite.

Nevertheless, referring to a variable with an index-match or if-then statement or something simpler to that effect shouldn't be beyond the scope. 

In one case it makes zero sense as well. How am I supposed to believe that Uenno, an Asura, can't recognize the very crass and obvious differences between male and female humans/Norn/Sylvari? With Charr maybe, but other than that, the Asura are the least dimorphic playable race. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by GeraldBC.4927

[Kiki.9450]

7 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

I'm kind of amazed someone would care this viscerally about generic pronouns.

One thing I will observe that is...interesting...is that the adoption of generic pronouns, as an affirmative action juxtaposed against the current cultural backdrop that is still getting used to nongendered language, is in fact quite antithetical to the idea of an MMO avatar. What I mean is, adopting they/them pronouns into your casual lexicon really has nothing to do with you, your identity, or your comfort; it is thoroughly an action of sacrificing aspects of one's own conception of self and other (here, emphasis on self), in order to accommodate *other people* who benefit from that shift in framing. Translating that idea to the setting of character creation in an MMO is tacitly conceding that same point virtually.

In effect, the evergreen MMO idea of character customizability, self expression, and in some instances self-identification, is in fact...undermined, ever so slightly. By a lessened ability to masculinize or feminize your character, and by the tacit implication that community-building is *more important*

But guess what: ethical and communal paradigms have their own virtues, and in the balancing of liberty and duty, we all absolutely are all better off sacrificing small vestigial slivers of hierarchical expression if it benefits the broader community. Every MMO has to balance total freedom and keeping the community alive. Many MMOs have already elected to not have...sliders, to avoid unnecessary objectification and sexualization in commonplace interactions. This transition to generic pronouns is just another variation on that.

Tell me you didn't read the thread without telling me you didn't read the thread. Or even the first post.

 

It's not about pronouns, it's about writing consistency across the entire game's story. Again, if Zojja was suddenly out of nowhere a norn in SotO only, I'm sure less people would be so quick to hand-wave this sort of feedback. People keep clinging to "muh pronouns" and not the actual issue being brought up.