Gw 2 walking away from Hardcore content ,But this game have content to become a good casual game?

[DarcShriek.5829]

I don't know if I'd say GW2 was walking away from hard core,  I'd say it's a pretty fast jog.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Quote

Also without the pvpers (us) you couldnt showcase the smoothness of the engine

Schold be a option to call someone for a duel, if you both are on same map instantion, if person agree you wuld duel till one of you die

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[kharmin.7683]

54 minutes ago, Carnage.6751 said:

Im not talking about Farmin in that sense.Im talking about building a farm.You know like in stardew.

Then go and play stardew.

[Carnage.6751]

25 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Then go and play stardew.

I don't wanna answer players like you but I must ask:Are you happy with this mindset?

[Gendalfs.7521]

16 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

No other mmo I’ve played in the last 21 years comes remotely close to catering to the so called “casual” audience. Whilst it’s a wish washy term, guild wars 2 still embraces that audience the best

I’m not saying it gets it right all the time, but it certainly does so more than any other

You need to consider most mmos in western market are korean (well WoW is popular exclusion) grind fest type games that spike at release and then deep dive down keeping only few dedicated players.

I havent played many mmos, but for me the best was Aion. I still think Aion was the best since Lineage2, but it went usual korean way of with each season becoming more and more p2w. I remember feeling if you skip playing for 1 week youre already behind others. So I said kitten it and quit. 

Thats happened to all those grinders. Market has shown that people like easier games.

GW2 is really unique for being game for casuals (keep in mind its NCsoft after all) and I really appreciate that! But..

Anet needs to be careful and not lose that vision. Theyre already on thin ice playing with legendary items.

[kharmin.7683]

48 minutes ago, Carnage.6751 said:

I don't wanna answer players like you but I must ask:Are you happy with this mindset?

What mindset?  If a game doesn't have a feature that some other game does have, why then should it be incorporated?  I thought the same thing about fishing (and raids, too).  I would much rather Anet spend their limited resources on things that will improve their game rather than mimic other ones.

EDIT: Think of it this way.  If Anet incorporated farm building like Stardew, then wouldn't those players stop playing that game?  Perhaps, at least one would (you) for why would you log in and play that game when GW2 has everything from every other game that you enjoy?

Edited September 12, 2023 by kharmin.7683

[QueenKeriti.5176]

8 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

You need to consider most mmos in western market are korean (well WoW is popular exclusion) grind fest type games that spike at release and then deep dive down keeping only few dedicated players.

I havent played many mmos, but for me the best was Aion. I still think Aion was the best since Lineage2, but it went usual korean way of with each season becoming more and more p2w. I remember feeling if you skip playing for 1 week youre already behind others. So I said kitten it and quit. 

Thats happened to all those grinders. Market has shown that people like easier games.

GW2 is really unique for being game for casuals (keep in mind its NCsoft after all) and I really appreciate that! But..

Anet needs to be careful and not lose that vision. Theyre already on thin ice playing with legendary items.

Most of the games I can think of lately haven't been Korean, and the current big MMOs right now aren't all Korean (WoW, FFXIV, ESO, GW2, Runescape). Black Desert and Lost Ark are the only two MMOs of halfway decent size that I can think of atm that are Korean.

I played Aion for 9 years, starting with the betas. It was a dumpster fire from the beginning because grindfest + hostile to grouping + gear gap + RNG out the butt + hostile playerbase + faction imbalances + hugely unfriendly towards "casuals" + a lot more, but it was still a playable but unpleasant dumpster fire. It went careening off a cliff when they introduced the stupid plumes and is now completely unplayable if you aren't paying. 😞

Legendary items in GW2 (which have been around since launch; all the gen1s were at launch and were soulbound on use, lol) will only be an issue if they're required for content/have the best stats over all other gear. So far, legendary gear has had the same stats as the top level gear (originally exotic, now ascended). So, I'm not sure what you're meaning by legendary items being a thin ice thing.

(Side note: GW2 is published by NCsoft, not developed, so NCsoft doesn't make all the decisions on the product; there is still some level of control from Arenanet. Aion/B&S/Lineage/etc are developed by NCsoft.)

[Carnage.6751]

21 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

What mindset?  If a game doesn't have a feature that some other game does have, why then should it be incorporated?  I thought the same thing about fishing (and raids, too).  I would much rather Anet spend their limited resources on things that will improve their game rather than mimic other ones.

EDIT: Think of it this way.  If Anet incorporated farm building like Stardew, then wouldn't those players stop playing that game?  Perhaps, at least one would (you) for why would you log in and play that game when GW2 has everything from every other game that you enjoy?

What stop playing you talking about.People PLAY to game by interacting with this contents.Like gathering eggs,milks even meat from their animals.Harvesting to crops.You think this game all about open world pve fights?And let me remind you I'm not saying this contents should take entire playtime of players.Like nodes you can harvest this materials and move on to others.Do you thinks inspiring from other games not improving? hmm I guess Blizzard made a mistake by bringing dragon riding to game.

Your mindset think this as one tight corridor.No It's not like people waste their entire time in  house.Content like this improve to casuality of game, improve to game quality also improve to a-net's investments.I recommend you to research how much other mmorpgs gained from housing.

[LeCreaux.3087]

I was a "hardcore" PvP player in another MMO for 18 years.  About a million player kills, tons of achievements, cosmetics, mounts, etc.  I didn't lose love for that game, but I guess I outgrew the antics of its community.  And you can't play one without at least tolerating the other.

I'm very happy so far with GW2.  Out in the open world most players do help out, in stark contrast to other games.  I'm specifically not playing hardcore anything.  Doing zone completions, trying out classes, making up my own specs.  Very casual friendly.  Achievements for the most part are account-wide, as well as most currencies and materials if you deposit them in account storage.

There are a few things that are not casual friendly and in my opinion not necessary.  Lot of bag space and build space slots are not account-wide and have to be unlocked with gems for each character.  I'm not a fan of transmutation stones, one for every item in every gear set on every character.  I'll gladly buy account-wide outfits and mounts as often as they make ones I like, and I don't mind buying additional character slots, but these transmutation stones are specifically not friendly to players with a bunch of characters.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

10 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

One of the many problems with casual players is that they aren’t very loyal. They are not attached to a game. If Guild Wars 2 had only been focusing on them, the game wouldn’t evolve and the servers would have shut down long ago. 

Not even those player that call themselves to be HardCore player are that loyal if you look to PvP, WvW or any instanced content like RAIDs or any PvE content that demands some kind of regular and organised group to complete.

There is a limit for how much you can adopt and adjust any MMO to fit with HardCore crew's demand for what they want without putting to much resources into it (from game development stand point) and that is why MMO will always have to deal with finding a balance between what content they offer, how different in game economical system can be interlaced without locking out player that aren't that focused on HardCore content (PvE players that don't want to do WvW for items that they only could get from doing WvW; WvW players that don't want to do PvE content as they do only want to play in WvW mode; PvP players that doesn't need either mode - at least for getting gear- outside for some faster way to get more characters and so on). 

There is also the reality that people get older as the longer a MMO exist and also might change both their life habits which also change how much they can keep up with HardCore content and then from game development there is also  technological limits for how much twitch reaction time (low PING, high enough framerate to react in time to count as a command sent to server for activate a skill/trait etc and other technological limitation where a scene need to load all assets fast enough to actually give player any sense of what is going on).

Cater to much to young HardCore crew would backfire as the older will feel locked out of doing the same content and giving in too much to the older HC player would also make they younger find some other more fast paced MMO that might fit with their idea of HC game play, so there is not really easy to get any MMO to have any longevity if you go too much into HC's players wishes for what they think it the correct way to play HardCore.

As a side note HC did mean that when your character would die you had to start all over again with a new character, so the very meaning of HC have also changed, as I don't think those "new" HC player would like to start from scratch without any Mastery (no mounts, no gliding, nothing at all, except a fresh character that start on level 1). 

If look at "old" first person shooters (MMO) you will see that those often have a very low graphical setting as a goal for those HardCore player removing almost every work done from devs to create a realistic environment, so HardCore player here will not really care for anything else then to see target as fast as possible and move on to next target. We have the same issue when we look at how some communities focus more and more at fast farming (which here means also faster completing any boss, raid, strike mission or even in WvW to farm other player as fast as possible to get their individual rewards (so this isn't a team effort any more, but just to get  to next goal what ever it is and devs like in SoTO focus now more on how to slow this down).

 

[Gendalfs.7521]

1 hour ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

Legendary items in GW2 (which have been around since launch; all the gen1s were at launch and were soulbound on use, lol) will only be an issue if they're required for content/have the best stats over all other gear. So far, legendary gear has had the same stats as the top level gear (originally exotic, now ascended). So, I'm not sure what you're meaning by legendary items being a thin ice thing.

Its about runes

[Cuks.8241]

59 minutes ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

Not even those player that call themselves to be HardCore player are that loyal if you look to PvP, WvW or any instanced content like RAIDs or any PvE content that demands some kind of regular and organised group to complete.

I would say they are very loyal, because they are still playing it after years of 0 new content (and no, a little extra rewards in wvw is not content).  You can get rated spvp game in under 3 mins at any time of the day, tournaments are actually still played and wvw is actually very much alive. But keep in mind this is for mmorpg standards, not dedicated competitive games. 

 

The game is lacking good systems for a real raiding mmorpg anyway. The encounter design can actually be really good (varies from meh to great), combat is more than fine but it just shows that class designs were not meant for squad raiding (which can be remedied by encounter design to some extent but not fully). The UI is also very basic and while this is a personal preference, the reward structure sucks (if you kill a big hard boss you expect it to drop a big shiny unique sword, not some materials and some strange currency).

What I regret a bit that the pvp scene never took off as much as it could. The game has great combat and class design for pvp. UI is really bad but ok. It actually feels like the game mechanics have been primarily designed for pvp and wvw. Net code is amazing, I havent played a mmorpg yet that could support so many players fighting each other so smoothly. Literary 150 players on one screen with barely any impact. Smooth movement and fluid skills with lots and lots of depth.

But there haven't been really many if any mmorpgs where pvp was super popular. Maybe large scale Lineage 2 wars but arena type pvp, not so much (no, wow arena was not a success, maybe first few seasons). Regardless what veteran players say, the pvp and wvw scenes are surprisingly alive even after years of total neglect. 

[Gravitron.7982]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

What mindset?  If a game doesn't have a feature that some other game does have, why then should it be incorporated?  I thought the same thing about fishing (and raids, too).  I would much rather Anet spend their limited resources on things that will improve their game rather than mimic other ones.

EDIT: Think of it this way.  If Anet incorporated farm building like Stardew, then wouldn't those players stop playing that game?  Perhaps, at least one would (you) for why would you log in and play that game when GW2 has everything from every other game that you enjoy?

 

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

What mindset?  If a game doesn't have a feature that some other game does have, why then should it be incorporated?  I thought the same thing about fishing (and raids, too).  I would much rather Anet spend their limited resources on things that will improve their game rather than mimic other ones.

EDIT: Think of it this way.  If Anet incorporated farm building like Stardew, then wouldn't those players stop playing that game?  Perhaps, at least one would (you) for why would you log in and play that game when GW2 has everything from every other game that you enjoy?

Features get added to MMORPG's all the time, GW2 not excluded. It never launched with mounts, gliding, flyging, etc. while other games had those features....then one day those features were added to GW2 and GW2 became more like other MMORPG's. 

You want GW2 to stay EXACTLY the way it is, and not add any new systems or features because it would risk making GW2 like other MMORPG's? And what are some things in your mind that would improve GW2 that Anet should waste their resources on? Like what's your top 5 list on that?
 

[QueenKeriti.5176]

6 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Its about runes

The relics?

The relics are definitely a stupid and poorly done change that messed with anyone who owned legendary runes, and making us have to wait for the legendary relic to come out AND craft it again to get back some of our lost functionality is ridiculous, and, yes, THAT is a change that people are rightfully worried about as a potential harbinger for what the future could bring. Because, yes, that does feel a lot like the stigma changes we went through in Aion.

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

The relics?

The relics are definitely a stupid and poorly done change that messed with anyone who owned legendary runes, and making us have to wait for the legendary relic to come out AND craft it again to get back some of our lost functionality is ridiculous, and, yes, THAT is a change that people are rightfully worried about as a potential harbinger for what the future could bring. Because, yes, that does feel a lot like the stigma changes we went through in Aion.

Yes and if they did that to runes whats stoping them to doing the same to weapons or trinkets or armor in the future?

Hence the legendaries being on thin ice comment by the other poster.

You got armor with main stat and then you have to grind for this new underarmor that got minor stats.

Afew expansions later well this under armor thing will only have half the minor stat you will have to grind for the second half minor stat on this sticker you put ontop of your normal armor now.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

23 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yes and if they did that to runes whats stoping them to doing the same to weapons or trinkets or armor in the future?

Hence the legendaries being on thin ice comment by the other poster.

You got armor with main stat and then you have to grind for this new underarmor that got minor stats.

Afew expansions later well this under armor thing will only have half the minor stat you will have to grind for the second half minor stat on this sticker you put ontop of your normal armor now.

Yeah, now that he clarified, I get what he means, and I agree. I thought he was just meaning legendary items/gear in general.

If he'd played Aion for a while, too, then he also would have dealt with Aion doing what you just hypothesized (I mean, it got to the point Aion took away run/cast/attack speed scrolls and food and stuff, so that way NCsoft could sell it back to us as RNG mobile gacha transformations, that someone spent over $18k attempting to get the top level one and didn't by the time I'd stopped playing), and it sucked.

Edit: Sorry, additional edit -- Aion literally took away our GEAR and had us grind it again, lmao. On top of stealing stats from both utilities and food, they took it from gear, too. It was/is WILD.

Edited September 12, 2023 by QueenKeriti.5176

[Teknomancer.4895]

20 hours ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

It's...really not. The only "customization" you can do for it is unlocking various material nodes, and you have no ability to decide on where those are. It pretty much only exists for story purposes. You don't have any housing capabilities with in it at all.

The BL Expedition board, garden plots and cooking station from the Chef's "Gourmet" achievement go in there too, same story with locations. They go where they go, like it or not.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yes and if they did that to runes whats stoping them to doing the same to weapons or trinkets or armor in the future?

I wouldn't say no , to removing the "Berseker" stat with each expansion and forcing you to do the content to unlock it .

The OW wont be effected (most use non-berseker) , niether the PvP . And it will slow down the game with each expasnion so you cannot 1-hit ko in WvW (less forums whines for the 1st month , with pople using elite specs) . Ad in Instances you wont do 40k dps to trivilize mechanics (like when you reach atm the bos at 33% he skip its scrpted attack)

Spoiler

(you can use my name  for this "syustem" , tell them in a livestream that we hard a very nice idea from our user Killthehealerffs"".

Whoever dont like it , i will Daily Hero them with my axe/torch Berseker)

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[QueenKeriti.5176]

My dude, most of my OW characters use berserker's gear. The ones who don't are the condi build ones. Anyone running zerkers in WvW is an absolute madlad.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

11 hours ago, Carnage.6751 said:

Im not talking about Farmin in that sense.Im talking about building a farm.You know like in stardew.

Yes, I know. I want to know how much money you intend this feature will bring. 

Because people need an incentive to do it after you got all the AP. 

 

[kharmin.7683]

16 hours ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

 

Features get added to MMORPG's all the time, GW2 not excluded. It never launched with mounts, gliding, flyging, etc. while other games had those features....then one day those features were added to GW2 and GW2 became more like other MMORPG's. 

You want GW2 to stay EXACTLY the way it is, and not add any new systems or features because it would risk making GW2 like other MMORPG's? And what are some things in your mind that would improve GW2 that Anet should waste their resources on? Like what's your top 5 list on that?
 

Perhaps I was misunderstood and that's fine.  I am not advocating that GW2 should not add new features; however, I don't think that features should be added just because some other game does it.  HoT was innovative and the implementation of mounts in this game is far superior to other games.  Each of these brings new content or new ways to play and engage with the game.  Adding things like fishing, home instances and (now suggested) farm building don't really engage with the game system in the same way that mounts did (IN MY OPINION!). 

As for improvements, I don't have a specific list but just strolling through the forums you can see the many complaints about balance issues, bugs and other things in current content that have been talked about literally for years that could use some TLC.  The WvW and PvP communities have been dying for improvements.  I'd prefer Anet spend resources there rather than with content that, again in my opinion, probably won't bring any significant added value (nor will it drive sales and increase profits which at the end of the day is why the game exists in the first place).

[Gravitron.7982]

3 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Perhaps I was misunderstood and that's fine.  I am not advocating that GW2 should not add new features; however, I don't think that features should be added just because some other game does it.  HoT was innovative and the implementation of mounts in this game is far superior to other games.  Each of these brings new content or new ways to play and engage with the game.  Adding things like fishing, home instances and (now suggested) farm building don't really engage with the game system in the same way that mounts did (IN MY OPINION!). 

As for improvements, I don't have a specific list but just strolling through the forums you can see the many complaints about balance issues, bugs and other things in current content that have been talked about literally for years that could use some TLC.  The WvW and PvP communities have been dying for improvements.  I'd prefer Anet spend resources there rather than with content that, again in my opinion, probably won't bring any significant added value (nor will it drive sales and increase profits which at the end of the day is why the game exists in the first place).

How are you defining "value" in this case? Value to who, you? Me? A new player?

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

How are you defining "value" in this case? Value to who, you? Me? A new player?

To me.  I said "in my opinion"

[Gravitron.7982]

49 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

To me.  I said "in my opinion"

Ok so not the same standard everyone else will be judging value by.

[Zeivu.3615]

The hardest part of GW2 is doing content that requires group events in an obscure map that may or may not be running at the time or is completely dead with no other incentives to go back.

Everything else is easier than a casual hookup on a dating site with the depth to match.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Zeivu.3615