New, Additional Participation System Needed in WvW

[pcgamefreak.5208]

Anyone who has spent a year or two in WvW know a lot of players will run from combat or AFK forever.  First off, running from combat is understandable when you look at the horrible concepts of WvW and classes.  Long ranged DPS...  Teleporting, vanishing....  Way too much so called "CC"....  Pathetic Class balance....  Players overpowered in a Rally State....  Pets and Bots overpowered....  Overpowered Blobs because of enormous Boons and "CC"....  Cheaters....omg the cheaters....  The list just goes on; so yeah, it's understandable when I see players running from those poor concepts because that's ultimately what they're running from.  Doesn't take skill to "CC" somebody until they can't move and DPS them down.

The "Devs" are never going to do the right thing with Classes/WvW/PvP, so why not at least reward those players go grow a pair?

What I'm purposing is a system that will keep track of how many times a player flees combat (which will be the harder track) versus how many times they go down fighting.  Players who don't run and either win or go down fighting, rather one on one or ganked (most likely ganked), should receive a new kind of currency that'll let them purchase items/box-of-claim-tickets/food/etc, that'll speed up the process of getting legendaries and buff their stats more.  Lets call it, "Heroic (final) Stance" or "Heroic Confrontation" or something to that nature, which gives the Heroic Buff.

On the other hand, those players who constantly flee....

Once players run so many times, they should receive a small debuff and a icon that floats over their character, indicating a coward.  Killing a player in the coward state should reward more bags per kill (like +10 bags per coward).  Yes, these players will get hunted like crazy with such a debuff but that's the point.  After continuing the cowardliness, they should auto teleport back to base camp and get a timeout for five minutes, in which they go into a forced AFK the whole time (if they leave WvW, they don't get back in until time is up).  If they continue to stack the coward debuff and it hit max, they should get auto kicked from WvW and not allowed back in for the next 30 minutes.  The debuff will clear after timeout, 30 minutes of being kicked or if they stop running and start fighting when they first get the debuff, it will not progress any further and eventually clear up (and start going up towards Heroic).

The number of times a player is counted as running before debuff, should be a benefit of the doubt amount like 10 to 12 times.  I would suggest code wise, looking at the amount of time they spend in a "running away from combat state" and if they spend enough time doing that...lets say 20+ seconds of fleeing while still in combat...  That's a +1 count toward the Coward Debuff.  A +1 can easily be converted back to a zero count if the players stop fleeing and start "throwing down" for a +1 count towards Heroic Buff.

Non runners should get the Heroic Buff faster than the debuff so if the debuff max is 10, getting the Heroic should be a count of 5.  Why?  Because we want players who fight to get the Heroic Buff asap so they're on that even playing field, while those who continuously run will eventually be hunted for enormous bag gain.

Conclusion....

Such a system would make players who once ran all the time, finally grow a pair.

PS, the current participation system needs to be fixed because "Pips" will drop even while you're constantly in combat or being ganked by a whole Zerg.

 

Peace

 

 

 

[XenesisII.1540]

They should also have a coward debuff for players who outnumber and gank enemy players in lesser numbers than them, every ally around you that participated in the kill also counts as a stack, 10v1 gets you 10 stacks instantly, the chicken can cross both lanes of the road. Gotta be fair to both sides. 🤷‍♂️

Also pve noobs constantly suicide running into groups to get killed for the "heroic confrontation" buff would be hilarious... hilariously bad. 🙄

 

[Hesione.9412]

Personally, I just want the hackers dealt with. I don't care about other players except when they are hacking or outnumbering us 2:1 or 3:1 and chasing us across every map to wipe us time and time again. @XenesisII.1540 would also prefer that the coward debuff meant no diamond chest for the week and the reward track was locked for the rest of the week.

[XenesisII.1540]

16 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

@XenesisII.1540 would also prefer that the coward debuff meant no diamond chest for the week and the reward track was locked for the rest of the week.

rut roo I do?

Edited September 19, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[Solvar.7953]

I was playing with some guildies last night, so we had a small group of 6-7 people.  Of course, whenever 1-2 enemies saw us, they ran away, and I can't blame them.  There is nothing to gain by losing a battle.

However, I don't think there is any way to fix this - even something so simple as participation not degrading for 2 minutes if in combat would certainly be abused.  One could argue that the entire time based participation system is poor design, but at this point, I wouldn't expect to see any changes to it.

 

[Omega.5087]

I doubt anything like this will ever happen I was roaming around most of tonight solo and I had many instances of people running away, running to guards, 1vX and its just annoying sometimes. I even had a thief who I had a good 1v1 with come back with a friend and then throw siege on me as some way of saying "hahahaha" or something I dunno.

Either way running away, coming back with friends or just the usual hey there is more of me than you. GET EM! mentality will never go away. I just don't let it get to me anymore and just move on cause I doubt anything will change

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Omega.5087

[Chaba.5410]

Yay! Kill trading for rewards!

[Hesione.9412]

5 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

I was playing with some guildies last night, so we had a small group of 6-7 people.  Of course, whenever 1-2 enemies saw us, they ran away, and I can't blame them.  There is nothing to gain by losing a battle.

However, I don't think there is any way to fix this - even something so simple as participation not degrading for 2 minutes if in combat would certainly be abused.  One could argue that the entire time based participation system is poor design, but at this point, I wouldn't expect to see any changes to it.

 

The problem is population imbalances in time zones. If the match-ups were time zone-balanced, you should see roughly the same number of players on each server pairing during each 2-hour skirmish period. There would be peaks and troughs, but the peaks would align and so would the troughs.

[Thomas.2564]

10 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

Anyone who has spent a year or two in WvW know a lot of players will run from combat or AFK forever.  First off, running from combat is understandable when you look at the horrible concepts of WvW and classes.  Long ranged DPS...  Teleporting, vanishing....  Way too much so called "CC"....  Pathetic Class balance....  Players overpowered in a Rally State....  Pets and Bots overpowered....  Overpowered Blobs because of enormous Boons and "CC"....  Cheaters....omg the cheaters....  The list just goes on; so yeah, it's understandable when I see players running from those poor concepts because that's ultimately what they're running from.  Doesn't take skill to "CC" somebody until they can't move and DPS them down.

The "Devs" are never going to do the right thing with Classes/WvW/PvP, so why not at least reward those players go grow a pair?

What I'm purposing is a system that will keep track of how many times a player flees combat (which will be the harder track) versus how many times they go down fighting.  Players who don't run and either win or go down fighting, rather one on one or ganked (most likely ganked), should receive a new kind of currency that'll let them purchase items/box-of-claim-tickets/food/etc, that'll speed up the process of getting legendaries and buff their stats more.  Lets call it, "Heroic (final) Stance" or "Heroic Confrontation" or something to that nature, which gives the Heroic Buff.

On the other hand, those players who constantly flee....

Once players run so many times, they should receive a small debuff and a icon that floats over their character, indicating a coward.  Killing a player in the coward state should reward more bags per kill (like +10 bags per coward).  Yes, these players will get hunted like crazy with such a debuff but that's the point.  After continuing the cowardliness, they should auto teleport back to base camp and get a timeout for five minutes, in which they go into a forced AFK the whole time (if they leave WvW, they don't get back in until time is up).  If they continue to stack the coward debuff and it hit max, they should get auto kicked from WvW and not allowed back in for the next 30 minutes.  The debuff will clear after timeout, 30 minutes of being kicked or if they stop running and start fighting when they first get the debuff, it will not progress any further and eventually clear up (and start going up towards Heroic).

The number of times a player is counted as running before debuff, should be a benefit of the doubt amount like 10 to 12 times.  I would suggest code wise, looking at the amount of time they spend in a "running away from combat state" and if they spend enough time doing that...lets say 20+ seconds of fleeing while still in combat...  That's a +1 count toward the Coward Debuff.  A +1 can easily be converted back to a zero count if the players stop fleeing and start "throwing down" for a +1 count towards Heroic Buff.

Non runners should get the Heroic Buff faster than the debuff so if the debuff max is 10, getting the Heroic should be a count of 5.  Why?  Because we want players who fight to get the Heroic Buff asap so they're on that even playing field, while those who continuously run will eventually be hunted for enormous bag gain.

Conclusion....

Such a system would make players who once ran all the time, finally grow a pair.

PS, the current participation system needs to be fixed because "Pips" will drop even while you're constantly in combat or being ganked by a whole Zerg.

 

Peace

 

 

 

Wtf is this nons? I cant tell if ur being serious, or just having a kitten rant. Wvw is a OPEN competitive enviroment. So ppl are free to do what ever the f they want. U wanna punish ppl for not wanting to fight u, after u been sitting in south camp for 3h(im assuming), just waiting, hoping, that someone will turn up so u can ambush them. But im guessing they got away, hence this post? 

Anyway, that a side. U cant punish ppl for not wanting to fight u.. kekw! Besides the points u just made. There thousands of reason why ppl might now wanna fight u. There aint no rule book that states, if u get in combat u must stay and fight, sheesh... its like ppl standing in the south middle of the bl, who kitten and QQ when ubinterrupt there "duel", kekw! U wanna f'ing duel so badly go do it in OS. OR go to armistice, yes folks, anet actually gave u an area now, where u can have ur little d measuring contest, with less interruptions. But no, u all still stand around on enemy bl's trying to "duel". And QQ when ppl interrupt u(my self included). Ur freaking hilarious 🤭

[Delrago.2098]

5 hours ago, Thomas.2564 said:

. Wvw is a OPEN competitive enviroment. So ppl are free to do what ever the f they want. 

... its like ppl standing in the south middle of the bl, who kitten and QQ when ubinterrupt there "duel", kekw! U wanna f'ing duel so badly go do it in OS. OR go to armistice, yes folks, anet actually gave u an area now, where u can have ur little d measuring contest, with less interruptions. But no, u all still stand around on enemy bl's trying to "duel". And QQ when ppl interrupt u(my self included). Ur freaking hilarious 🤭

So can people play how they want or not…? Does forcing people to fight make sense, no. How ever intentionally messing up people trying to improve in a competitive game mode in a way you don’t agree with isn’t any better. That’s just WvW, there’s fight zergs PPT zergs GVG guilds roaming guilds people who duel that’s how wvw has been always. 

[Chaba.5410]

Anyone remember when the Obsidian Sanctum had team spawns right near each other and a bunch of players organized a mass brawl there so they could farm rewards?

Good times.  Anet disabled loot and then moved the waypoints.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Obsidian_Sanctum_Farm

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

As much fun as identifying cowards could be, I think it's be much better to identify bullies.

[kash.9213]

Where do you draw the line between running and repositioning? 

This isn't structured/scripted pvp. If people are contributing to taking control of the map, then they're doing what they need to do. And if they're standing at the bank playing fashion wars, they're also doing what they need to be doing.

I'll bounce if things don't look good for me and if I'm grouped up, I'll walk them out of something if it looks like the other side is trying to walk us into something.

I'll also look for a better layout and set something up myself and that's going to be considered running away. And if whoever I'm setting up refuses to get set up and takes off then I'll laugh because good on them. 

Some servers in general are a harder fight, but the way they fight and move as a team would likely punish them in your new system almost constantly.

[Solvar.7953]

Even if populations of all the servers were balanced (which IMO, is impossible to do), you are still going to have larger and smaller (or solo) groups wandering around different parts of the map.  A bunch of people will join the zerg to roll over everything.  The other servers could try to mount a defense, or depending on what that zerg is going for, head to other maps to poach various things that first team holds.  And even when there are decent number of players about, roamers/small groups can often poach camps & towers, because it isn't worth anything for someone to hang out watching/defending it (this ignoring the fact that defend events are mostly broken).

[Thomas.2564]

13 hours ago, Delrago.2098 said:

who duel that’s how wvw has been always. 

Yes, very true. Now dont miss understand me. I can understand the ppl wanna improve their skills and so on. The problem how ever, with these so called duels. Is that they are doing it in on open free for all enviroment. And think that because they are 1v1 in some specific area, that they decideret is a "safe area" ppl wont kill em, Nope! And then they get salty and QQ like little kids, cause someone killed them in a ffa, I mean seriously 🤭

Its especially funny, since they have OS where they can practice, AND armistice now. But do they go there no. Well, im sure actually good players who REALLY wanna have proper duels go there. But these bro players just go there to have half arsed duels, and measure d's and makeb terrible youtube content. So no, I feel 0 empathy for these players. Since anet's has provided plenty of area's where they can train and duel in peace. 

[Ashen.2907]

I think that it is arguable that 30 people chasing one is more cowardly than one person running away from 30. 

[Solvar.7953]

OTOH, if 30 people are chasing 1, and I was that 1 person, I'd consider it a victory in that I have 30 other players wasting their time trying to catch me instead of doing something useful.

I've certainly ran into other players whose goal seems to be that - not to actually take or kill anything, but just run around drawing other players to them and having those other players waste their time (or perhaps draw them away from actually doing something useful, like capturing or defending something).

But for everyone involved in those mechanics, they are getting nothing for that effort.  I'll usually drop off pursuit myself and find something more interesting to do than trying to hunt down a solo fleer.

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

15 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

OTOH, if 30 people are chasing 1, and I was that 1 person, I'd consider it a victory in that I have 30 other players wasting their time trying to catch me instead of doing something useful.

I've certainly ran into other players whose goal seems to be that - not to actually take or kill anything, but just run around drawing other players to them and having those other players waste their time (or perhaps draw them away from actually doing something useful, like capturing or defending something).

People don't believe in this game within the game and no way could a small group or roamer drag a large one around. Nope, never happens, surely not.

Signed, Shirley

 

 

🙂 Man its all the better when they follow and didn't pay attention that you dragged them all the way back to their own spawn before you ported. 😆

[ArchonWing.9480]

16 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

've certainly ran into other players whose goal seems to be that - not to actually take or kill anything, but just run around drawing other players to them and having those other players waste their time (or perhaps draw them away from actually doing something useful, like capturing or defending something).

Yea, I mean nobody told them to chase that far. Then again there seems to be a negative correlation between hard chasers and their ability to fight when they're not outnumbering the enemy xD.

Then again, I've had the honor of being targeted by some entire guilds of 40+ blob all the way from hills to garrison and only  killing me twice while they wiped more than that, lol. Maybe they should learn to do damage instead of just spamming heals/boons.**

**Obviously, had an allied group, the enemy just died because of the tunnel vision.

Edited September 21, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheIceman.1039]

On 9/21/2023 at 6:40 AM, Solvar.7953 said:

OTOH, if 30 people are chasing 1, and I was that 1 person, I'd consider it a victory in that I have 30 other players wasting their time trying to catch me instead of doing something useful.

I've certainly ran into other players whose goal seems to be that - not to actually take or kill anything, but just run around drawing other players to them and having those other players waste their time (or perhaps draw them away from actually doing something useful, like capturing or defending something).

But for everyone involved in those mechanics, they are getting nothing for that effort.  I'll usually drop off pursuit myself and find something more interesting to do than trying to hunt down a solo fleer.

 

U can be proud, u are very valuable. This is why they chased